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JoJo High 3-A (Or 3-A idk) Upgrade

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That isn't relevant to the CRT? And is off-topic, but the answer to that is. No, Killer Queen can only transmutate objects with Bomb#1 that are deemed "one whole", one thing. The planet is comprised of rocks, water, separate landmasses, etc. It most definitely wouldn't fall under KQ's Rules, Bomb #1 likely lacks the range to do that anyhow. The same goes for CD as well, his ability only works on parts of a whole.

Anyway no derailing.
 
Agree with the CRT.

Not sure if this is off topic, but what does this mean for Novel Kars? Since iirc the killer queen from the novel is pretty much the same as the one in canon, just that Kars can use BTD on himself.
 
It means we change "rewinds time" to "blows up time" on Kars page and call it day.
Literally just copy paste the changes. But this is the least of Kars' concerns, his whole page needs a good cleaning, which I started on but that ain't gonna be done anytime soon.

It doesn't scale to him physically, and he didn't even copy BTD, he just stole it off Kira, Stand and all, to flex, so his hax stuff doesn't scale either because he just shit talked Kira so bad his Stand went rogue. And while he can use it on himself (Even Kira in the novel can use it on himself, he actually probably deserves a profile tbh), all that means is they act as BTD's host, not a 3rd party, aka they don't need to prime BTD on some random civilian or something but can just use it without one.

I was 100% serious when I said this is literally just for indexing purposes, it helps nobody tbh.
 
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It_is_i_wyatt said:
neither 3-A nor high 3-A are 4-D
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actually high 3-A is 4d on a finite scale
Chariot190 said:
Bites the Dust doesn't rewind time, it blows it the **** up. Thread looks messy because I wrote this up in a few minutes, wasn't planned.
It's important we establish this first, guides are merely supplementary, and don't supersede the source material, and if contradicted, they're useless, and I was thinking that might be the case here, because this is kind of huge, till I started actually looking into and well, between 50 machine translations, checking out some dictionaries (Here's one you can use), and even double checking with some lads who speak the language properly...

  • 1. Stated in BTD's first guide debut, Killer Queen's 3rd bomb BTD not only blows up its victim, but time as well.​


吉良 に関する こと を 質問 し て き た 相 手 を 自動的 に 爆破 する ほか ､ 早人 が 言 葉 や 文章 など で 吉良 の こと を 相手 に 知 ら せ て も 作動 する 。 スタンド の ヴィジ ョ ン を 見 た ものの 瞳 の 中 に 飛び込み 、 相手 と 一緒 に 時間 そのもの も 1 時間 程 度 吹き飛ばし て 吉良 の もと へ と 戻っ て くる スタンド で 、 吹き飛ばさ れ た 時間 に 何 が 起き た の か 、 何 度 吹き飛ばし て き た の か は 吉良 本人 に も わから ない 。
In addition to automatically blowing up opponents who ask him questions about Kira, Hayato also activates it if he lets them now about Kira through words or written sentences. This Stand dives into the eyes of anyone who sees the vision of the Stand, blowing up the time itself alongside the opponent for about 1 hour, before returning to Kira's side.

  • 2. Stated twice in that guide when Araki is talking about his favorite Stands and what not. BTD blows up not only the victims, but time itself, hence why it goes back an hour, that hour of time itself was destroyed.


キラークイーンの最終能力で、吉良を探る者を自動的に爆破し、時間も同時に吹き飛ばしてしまうスタンドだ。 ただし、吉良が精神的に極度に追いつめられないと発動せず、本編でも早人に対して1回しか仕掛けられなかった。
Killer Queen's Final Ability, a Stand that automatically blows up those who search for Kira and simultaneously blows away time. However, it will not activate unless Kira is driven into a corner mentally to the extreme, and even in the main story, he only managed to set it on Hayato once.

  • 3. These bits of info are not contradicted, in the manga they never say anything like rewind time, they say BTD returns them back an hour, they even say it resets back an hour, but they don't say rewind and they don't say anything that contradicts this, in fact they way most things are worded implicates this.

  • 4. The manga actually corroborates this, ignoring Killer Queen's main ability, gimmick and whole premise is blowing things away, thus it blowing away time actually fits with it, in the manga they say such things as "He erases time".

Paraphrasing these but the scans right there, you can check yourself.
"Only my identity is gone, and time/things/etc will progress just like they once did" (Other translation have him say a thing I'll add later, don't worry about it but it's even more useful).
Here he's saying the fact that his identity was found out had been deleted, and the timeline will continue just like it did in the previous time, but without the fact it was ever revealed, and then like two pages later he says this.
"Even the fact you met Rohan has been erased, and the morning will continue on with its usual course"
Here's he's saying that even though he met Rohan in the previous BTD, after BTD activated and went back in time, the very fact he ever met Rohan had been erased, and everything will continue like it once did.
"Bites The Dust. A fate that once happened is guaranteed to happen" (As in it'll happen again when time progresses back there).
Basically, BTD in the context of the manga sends Hayato/Kira/etc back in time one hour through unknown methods. It's established that that events that happened did happen once, past tense, from the perspective of the characters. The events and actions taken in the previous iterations of time are referred to as being "erased". And they outline that time will resume it's progress, continue on, etc, and when they hit such a point where something happened once, it'll happen again as it's fated to no matter what, Various Fate lines, saying BTD forces a fate on things once destroyed to be destroyed/happen again.

Now, none of this implicates he blows up time directly, but it does make it clear it isn't basic time rewind, and when you factor in the extra information, it corroborates it without contradiction.
Effectively, what's being said is that the time where all the wacky stuff happens gets deleted, erased, whatever, and then Hayato returns back which we all know, then time just continues normally like it once did, except things that happened before in the deleted window of time will happen again no matter what once the timeline hits that point again because BTD's Fate dictates it must happen. For similar abilities, see King Crimson and Made in Heaven, a Stand that, coincidentally deletes time and everything in the world but him is fated to take the actions they would have taken in the span of deleted time, or Made In Heaven which loops and then resets the universe, making it that everything that happened in the original time will happen again no matter what in the new time line because it's fated to.
Basically BTD is an opposite King Crimson, instead of deleting time and the timeline jumps past the point of deleted time, BTD deletes a chunk of the timeline and then places it back right before the destroyed time. And because people asking, no, Killer Queen or the host isn't effected, much like how Diavolo isn't harmed by him deleting 10 seconds of time on a universal scale, when that happens in JoJo, things just stop working.
But anyway that's all just superfluous shit, you remember when I said the manga states that he erases time?
Yeah, well, in the raw it says It's a powerful ability that blows away time.

metal-gear-damn.gif

It was there the whole time, buried, hidden from public eye, a conspiracy, information to powerful.
BTD blowing up time was never a guide a thing, it's always been the case.​

With the context given. BTD blows up time for one hour, returning the host back in time by 1 hour. Every events and actions that happened within the hour of blown up time will be fated to happen again as it once did, with the exception of Kira's identity being revealed, once time progresses back to the times where such events happen they will happen again even if it should be impossible, like Rohan spontaneously exploding despite the fact he encountered Hayato having been erased. This repeats untill BTD is deactivated, or time progress past a hour, in which the events that happened outside the scope for that hour will be kept and won't be blown away by BTD blowing away time. Also if someone wants to give slightly more accurate translations that's fine as well, otherwise I'm just gonna hit up the lad later.

Thus, I propose we give BTD this

No I'm not fixing the source code.
'''Universe level+''' Environmental Destruction with Bites the Dust (Killer's Queen final bomb [ which blows away time]<ref name=“DIU171”>JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Diamond is Unbreakable Chapter 171</ref>; [ Blows up approximately one hour of time itself alongside its victims]<ref name=“JGBTD”>JoJo-A-Go!Go!: Section 61</ref><ref name=“JGFSBTD”>JoJo-A-Go!Go!: Araki's Favorite Stands</ref>)",

Alternatively Universal works (Might go with that to be safe), I don't know how we rate blowing up a chunk of the timeline but not all of it, seems like its between High 3-A and low 2-C but neither exactly.
I might flesh it out, and obviously the technique section will need to be overhauled explaining how exactly it works with all the needed scans, but I'll take of care that later, I'll make a Kira sandbox with all the sauce and do a quick CRT then, I just want this to get the ok for now so I can finish other stuff.

Why am I proposing Environmental Destruction and not something else? Because while it might be a hax ability, it is a hax ability that functions by literally using things like explosions and what not, he isn't magically deleting time, he's blowing it up. ("Blow away time" can also be translated as "blow up time", and might even be the more accurate translation given the context).
But it's also not combat applicable in the slightest, he can't hit a foe with this much energy or whatever, it's just a specific application of his explosion powers that he can activate when his mental state is pushed to the extreme. basically Time ED for the whole world.

This effects, absolutely nothing, nobody scales to it, it can't be used offensively, the way BTD is used and functions in action doesn't change with this info, this is basically just words on a profile that do nothing. It's just slapping ED on the profile because that's what it is and I give a shit more about indexing it properly than what other arbitrary stuff we have going on. There's other stuff I could add to this like how BTD is apart of the Range Irrelevant Time Based abilities that effect the whole world and time itself and more scans from the arc but you get the point, this is enough. Funny explosion cat uses explosions to blow up literally time itself, making that timeframe that was destroy cease existing, putting the whole world back an actual hour.
Also Ziller no.
No it doesn't mean that either.
Or that.
And no he doesn't scale that way.

Anyway I didn't really plan on making this anytime soon but lads wanted me to so I halfed assed this quickly so we can get it out of the way so I can continue working on the major projects, as well as the range CRT I'll probably drop right after this finishes.
BITD_boom.gif
Agree: Chariot190 (Wow!), Dalesean, Armor, Arnoldstone18, Sus, Unknownnah, InfiniteDay, Ican'tthinkof1goodname, ZoroNotZolo, Dread (3-A Only), Guns, Wyatt (Ultimate), Ban, DRW001, Baken (15)
Disagree:

​
Click to expand...

seems agreeable, although the remarks at the end were quite offensive, I do agree with high 3-A
 
ZillertheBucko said:
actually high 3-A is 4d on a finite scale
Click to expand...
It stopped being this since the tiering system revisions a couple of years back.


Anyway, agree with it being Environmental Destruction but I'm not sure what tier it should be listed as. Even an hour of the timeline contains uncountably infinite snapshots of the 3-dimensional universe but at the same time, it's only an hour and not the full timeline being destroyed.

Perhaps "At least 3-A, likely far higher Environmental Destruction"?
 
XXKINGXX69 said:
I thought you needed both time and space instead of just time for it to count as universe destruction
Click to expand...
I think the logic is something like. . .when you're destroying a specific instance or range of time, you're also destroying the snapshots within that time, which would inherently include the snapshots of the universe.

I could be wrong though, I ain't a Tiering System big brain
 
This should be low 2C, an hour of time still has an uncountably infinite snapshots of the universe, the feat is still infinitely superior to tier 3

Not giving it a "below low 2C's baseline" doesn't make sense
 
XXKINGXX69 said:
I thought you needed both time and space instead of just time for it to count as universe destruction
Click to expand...
Eh no.

That's what 3-A is for. 3-D space on a universal scale of 93 billion light years. Universe destruction can mean many things. Doesn't necessarily have to involve blowing up space-time either, you could just turn it into a lifeless void.

However, here he's blowing up an infinite number of snapshots of said universe by blowing up that specific portion of time, so at the very least, it's unquantifiably above 3-A, possibly even higher than High 3-A, since this is countable infinity + 4-D time AFAIK.

Low 2-C is when you destroy every single conceivable portion of time including their snapshots, which'd end up being uncountably infinite at that point.
 
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KLOL506 said:
AFAIK to be Low 2-C you'd need to affect the entire timestream, every last possible second of it.
Click to expand...
Technically even this feat is destroying an uncountably infinite number of snapshots of 3-dimensional universes. Frankly, amending it to "3-A to Low 2-C Environmental Destruction via Bites the Dust" would also work but I'm not sure of our standards regarding that.
 
Planck69 said:
Technically even this feat is destroying an uncountably infinite number of snapshots of 3-dimensional universes. Frankly, amending it to "3-A to Low 2-C Environmental Destruction via Bites the Dust" would also work but I'm not sure of our standards regarding that.
Click to expand...
Well I still can't wrap my head around the idea of blowing up a portion of time so uh... go loud I suppose.
 
Uh, wouldn't this be Low 2-C by extension of it's a whole ass timeline, idk if that's been said before

I agree
 
Naah thats 3A not even high 3A one of my favorites recreated entire present and future of a timeline but he was 3A for not being able to affect the past.
 
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