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John Cena vs Captain America (WWE vs Marvel Comics)

RandomGuy2345 said:
How is Cap's shield helping him dodge attacks? Dodging attacks requires the person to move their body out of harm's way. The shield just helps Cap block attacks.

Rey Mysterio isn't as skilled as Captain America?
Click to expand...
In my original post I said block and dodge.
Rey Mysterio is more agile but I would argue he's more skilled.
 
DivineAura44 said:
In my original post I said block and dodge.
Rey Mysterio is more agile but I would argue he's more skilled.
Click to expand...
A shield is going to help block attacks, not dodge them. Cap will have to move out of harms way in order to dodge.

I genuinely think Mysterio is more skilled. His unbelievable speed and agility, as well as his overwhelming offense has made him fight on par with wrestlers twice his size, and even beat them.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
A shield is going to help block attacks, not dodge them. Cap will have to move out of harms way in order to dodge.

I genuinely think Mysterio is more skilled. His unbelievable speed and agility, as well as his overwhelming offense has made him fight on par with wrestlers twice his size, and even beat them.
Click to expand...
1. Do you believe Cap couldn't dodge at all?
2. I literally just said skill was different from speed and agility and you brought them both up to say Mysterio was more skilled...
 
DivineAura44 said:
1. Do you believe Cap couldn't dodge at all?
Click to expand...
Not at all. I was talking about the point you made. Captain's shield doesn't help him dodge. You kept on claiming otherwise.

DivineAura44 said:
2. I literally just said skill was different from speed and agility and you brought them both up to say Mysterio was more skilled...
Click to expand...
1. Mysterio is 100% more agile than Captain America. Speed doesn't matter since we'd put speed equal.
2. Skill is very important here. Cena has a very good advantage in that category here, so dodging will be hard to do. Cap will have to resort to blocking his attacks with his shield.
 
A simple dropkick to the face (which Cena is capable of doing) seals the deal and is going to make CA drop his shield.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Not at all. I was talking about the point you made. Captain's shield doesn't help him dodge. You kept on claiming otherwise.


1. Mysterio is 100% more agile than Captain America. Speed doesn't matter since we'd put speed equal.
2. Skill is very important here. Cena has a very good advantage in that category here, so dodging will be hard to do. Cap will have to resort to blocking his attacks with his shield.
Click to expand...
I wasn't. I was bringing it up as I said dodge AND block in my other post. Whatever we can drop this.
1. Mysterio is 100% more agile than Captain America. Speed doesn't matter since we'd put speed equal.
2. Skill is very important here. Cena has a very good advantage in that category here, so dodging will be hard to do. Cap will have to resort to blocking his attacks with his shield.
Click to expand...
1. I literally said he was,
1. Skill isn't the same as dodging skill and catching skill.
 
DivineAura44 said:
Mysterio didn't have a giant shield in battle. Also I'd argue when it comes to pure skill, CA is better.
Click to expand...
Okay? We're still talking about dodging skill, which Mysterio holds the advantage in. Having a shield doesn't matter.

Yeah, you're going to have to give me a very good explanation in order to remotely convince me CA is more skilled than Rey Mysterio, who has fought people with multiple different wrestling styles.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Okay? We're still talking about dodging skill, which Mysterio holds the advantage in. Having a shield doesn't matter.

Yeah, you're going to have to give me a very good explanation in order to remotely convince me CA is more skilled than Rey Mysterio, who has fought people with multiple different wrestling styles.
Click to expand...
So you are saying in pure dodging skill Mysterio is better, correct?
 
The_Impress said:
I mean, Captain America literally solo'd Nazi camps in BERLIN, GERMANY with no weapons whatsoever, so y'know, hard-pressed to believe that.
Click to expand...
Thanks for at least giving me some skill feats for Cap.

I'll post a skill essay on Cena later on, so follow this thread for me pls.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
I'll post a skill essay on Cena later on, so follow this thread for me pls.
Click to expand...
Also known as "I'll try to overwhelm you with trivial info when only 2 to 3 feats are truly relevant"

Just word the best feats, nobody has enough free time to go through a textwall.
 
The_Impress said:
That looks like statement wank tbh, can you prove it's literal?
Click to expand...
Well falling off buildings has been a feat many times in WWE, so that kind of action isn’t unprecedented, it’s not like it’s totally impossible, the upgrade that came from the statement was very minor, so you can’t argue an outlier. Also, this is a vs match, if you have problems with the AP ratings, make a CRT
 
The difference between the current AP and the original highest is negligible (not even 2x), so I don't see the point of removing the feat.
 
The_Impress said:
?
Click to expand...
I’m saying that given the extremely close range to other feat’s results, it’s not like we’ve used just a statement to do a massive upgrade. We’ve used a statement well within the realms of possibility by verse standards for a minor verse upgrade. The CRT for this upgrade just passed, why are we only now getting opposition?
 
John Cena was able to defeat the likes of Chris Jericho.

Jericho has gone up against the likes of The Undertaker, who is considered the greatest pure striker in Sports Entertainment history. Even the likes of Kurt Angle was scared to take a punch from him.

If ya don't know Kurt Angle, he's notorious for winning a gold medal with a broken neck, who is this skilled, and was named the greatest shoot wrestler ever.
Jericho has not only gone up against The Undertaker (and is perfectly capable of harming him), he's also able to fight on par with people who has beaten Kurt Angle on two occasions, that being John Cena, who was able to beat Kurt Angle on two different occasions. Jericho is able to fight on par with Cena.

Chris Jericho defeated Dolph Ziggler. Ziggler has a great amateur wrestling background. Ziggler set the record for most pins in St. Edward High School with 82 pins. When he was a wrestlers at Kent State University, he at one point, held the record for most career wins in the team's history, earning 121 wins (the record was soon broken, but this still says a lot for how skilled Jericho is). I'd like to mention that Jericho also had ****** up ribs in this matchup as well, so even more impressive.

Not to mention that Jericho has over 30 years of experience wrestling, and has competed in over 2000 matches in his career.

Might I mention that The Undertaker has had wars with the likes of Brock Lesnar.

Lesnar had a record of 106-5 in his 4 years of college wrestling at the NCAA, as well as winning the NCAA Division I Heavyweight Championship.

Lesnar also had a UFC career, in which he went 6-3. Lesnar also ended the iconic 21-year Wrestlemania win streak of The Undertaker.

Undertaker and Lesnar had wars with each other, both being able to fight on par with each other. Jericho was able to fight on par with The Undertaker.

Jericho was able to fight on par with someone who was able to fight on par with someone who ended their 21-year undefeated streak. Over 2 decades of being undefeated.

To pour more salt into the wound, Andre the Giant was undefeated for 15 straight years.

Hulk Hogan was able to defeat Andre the Giant, breaking his undefeated 15 year streak.

The Undertaker was able to defeat Hulk Hogan on two different occasions.

And like I said before, Jericho is able to fight on par with The Undertaker.
Click to expand...
TL;DR: Cena has defeated people who have fought on par with the very best of all time in different categories. Defeating the greatest shoot wrestler ever, as well as defeating people who can go toe-to-toe with the greatest pure striker ever. Shouldn't be too long of a read.
 
Pikaman said:
I’m saying that given the extremely close range to other feat’s results, it’s not like we’ve used just a statement to do a massive upgrade.
Click to expand...
Valid statements, yeah.
Pikaman said:
We’ve used a statement well within the realms of possibility by verse standards for a minor verse upgrade.
Click to expand...
Isn't in a realm of possibility for a 4x upgrade because the statement is vastly incomparable to the feats shown. Humans can survive building falls IRL, falling from Burj Khalifa or some shit isn't remotely the same scale, man, I shouldn't be having to explain you this.

It "being minor" means nothing when it's wrong lmao.
Pikaman said:
The CRT for this upgrade just passed, why are we only now getting opposition?
Click to expand...
Almost like I wasn't aware of the CRT before, huh? Are you aware of every singular Marvel revision I make?

Pika like... this shit is so unnecessarily defensive it only serves to paint a bias imo, or makes me genuinely doubt your logic.
RandomGuy2345 said:
TL;DR: Cena has defeated people who have fought on par with the very best of all time in different categories. Defeating the greatest shoot wrestler ever, as well as defeating people who can go toe-to-toe with the greatest pure striker ever. Shouldn't be too long of a read.
Click to expand...
Not to address completely wankish understanding of skill scaling and nulling every single fight's mechanics that happened as well as the complexity of the combat portrayed, it's not AP bro, great, he fights people who fight people in a controlled environments with a rigid set of rules, wowie, this will be really impressive if this fight as well was in a controlled environment, it's not, it's a no-holds barred combat with a shifting terrain.

Cap was literally soloing entire camps of Nazis outgunning (Note he is still a tier where bullets very well affect and pierce him), outnumbering and outranging him vastly, not via stealth mind you, sheer all-out brawl, in ******* Berlin, and he came out UNHARMED, not to mention the countless opponents with variety of skills in martial arts and weaponry he has fought that themselves have years of experience.

"Years of experience" only works when the experience at hand is immensely varied, it's genuinely not, it's doing stunt combat IRL in a negligibly shifting stage, which as impressive as it is, is still in real life, in contrast for the same 30 years Cap was fighting Nazi Alligators with guns in Floridean swamps, armed communist spies holed up in warehouses across the city, time-travelling conquerors in Egypt, macabre monsters while hanging from dear life within castles and crypts, fending off Japanese troops in Pacific Islands and openly parading within the enemy state.
 
I’m not discussing the legitimacy of WWE’s current God and Supernatural Tier APs, that’s for a CRT for those who wish to make it. I will comment on the match

I wanna just debunk a few small issues regarding WWE skill here, before I reach what is probably my conclusion for this match


The_Impress said:
wowie, this will be really impressive if this fight as well was in a controlled environment, it's not, it's a no-holds barred combat with a shifting terrain.
Click to expand...
Idk what you mean by shifting terrain, Cena literally has home turf advantage, the ring he fights in so much. Also, there are countless different forms of Np Disqualification matches in WWE, so Cena has fair amounts of experience in no-holds barred combat (There is literally a “No-Holds Barred” Match type lol).


The_Impress said:
"Years of experience" only works when the experience at hand is immensely varied, it's genuinely not, it's doing stunt combat IRL
Click to expand...
Cena has faced an extremely varied group of opponents over his long career, and I think calling WWE “Stunt Combat” is unfair in the context of kayfabe, where it is portrayed as very much a proper, multi martial arts fighting organisation.





That said, HOLY SHIT Steve is more skilled than I thought he was at this stage, Cena will barely be able to touch him, and the shield just makes the whole endeavour useless for him. If not a skillstomp I’ll vote Cap for violently higher levels of skill and excellent defensive options nulling Cena’s massive offensive advantages
 
I was worried about Steve's skill, too.

Cena already struggles with the shield, so imagine him facing someone who far higher skill than him.

Very close to stomp, but I wanna hear someone else's argument (specifically Impress).
 
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