Jiren (and UI Sign Goku) revision plus range upgrade for DBS god tiers.

[Omegas03]

Every GoD including Belmod is at least Low 2-C by scaling to the Beerus and Champa feat.

Jiren was stated to be stronger than A God of Destruction (Belmod) way before we even knew of his Limit Breaking power.

Jiren's Bio in Toei website tells us that he is God of Destruction level. Again, Jiren is implied several times to be in GoD domain before we saw his Limit Breaking state.

I am not implying Jiren is stronger than Beerus here, but since he scales above Belmod; both him and Third Omen Goku should get also an at least Low 2-C rating.

Edit: also advocating for everyone who scales to the GoDs (UI Goku, Jiren, Gogeta and Broly) to get their range upgraded to Low Multiversal.

 

[Omegas03]

Scans

All this implies Base Jiren is on God of Destruction domain/stronger than Belmod, meaning that him and UIS3 Goku also apply to an at least Low 2-C rating. Just like Gogeta, Broly and GoDs do.

Proposed changes:

-make the first key of Jiren at least Low 2-C.
-add a key for UI Sign 3rd Goku to make it at least Low 2-C or mix it with the MUI key.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

No one is stronger than Beerus. ovo

 

[Omegas03]

Bump

 

[Omegas03]

No he isn't and that isn't the point of the thread.

The point is that Belmod scales to the half 2-C feat, meaning 3rd UIO Goku and Base Jiren should too because they are > Belmod.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Lol. You have no idea how much I hate this “half 2-C” thing.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Toppo is definitely not stronger than Beerus. Broly is considered Beerus Level by Goku and I'm pretty sure he's way ******* stronger than Toppo.

 

[Panpanpanjeidj]

I'll change my opinion. I'd better say safely that jiren is stronger than Belmod.

In dbs broly, there was no super Sayian full power, and in toriyama's screenplay, there was only up to the transformation ssj, but the production crew added ssjfp because it was not like a broly.

Animation is far from Toriyama's intention, and toppo's hakai power may be one of the additions.

But they also follow the story progression of Toriyama's original version, so if the settings they added previously interfere with the story, the added settings will be ignored.

It's often even toriyama himself ignores the previous settings.

For example, Raditz becomes a elite warrior, or Vegeta does not see fusion in dbs broly.

And the ridiculous settings of various magazines.

https://mcafethumb-phinf.pstatic.net/MjAyMDA3MjJfMjc5/MDAxNTk1NDI5NTYyNTY1.rAZmA2ZHOm16aB5bTtwxbdSxKOleuRxcb_WbPSiS_6Eg.kM-pngrMMKl4rIBJnO0AT491b65OwGo80_vaKGAn0xUg.JPEG/externalFile.jpg?type=w800

(Ssj3 goku=Mystic Buu???? WTF)

Also, on Comics, Piccolo mentioned that 73 moro cannot be beaten with fusion (goku did not deny it), but it was expressed as if the Earth moro could be overpowered by beerus.


Everything makes db's rank division unclear.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Ignoring whatever that was...
Yea. Jiren > Belmod >~ Beerus = "At least Low 2-C", which would scale to 129 Ultra Instinct -Sign- Goku. I think mixing the 129 transformation with the mastered form, "Third Ultra Instinct -Sign- and Ultra Instinct", is the best way to go.

 

[elhermanopadre]

"Blue Gogeta>>>>Broly>Fp Jiren, UI> Base jiren>God of Destruction> or =Toppo"

Not it's gogeta blue>>FP jiren=Ui goku=Belmod=>Beerus=broly and other GOD here>Destroyer Toppo>Less suppress jiren>base normal jiren.

And, a rumor that a destroyer can not defeat jiren doesn't imply that jiren can defeat him as well.

Jiren=Belmod>Beerus.

 

[LordTracer]

I agree with Jiren and UIO3 Goku being ‘At least Low 2-C.’

 

[Omegas03]

People don't bring Beerus in this, I couldn't care less about his placement compared to Goku and Jiren.

This is about Base Jiren being explicitely stated to be stronger than Belmod lots of times, yet himself and UIO3 Goku are rated lower than the clown god.

 

[LightReinh12345]

Yeah I was surprised why base jiren wasnt at least low 2-C while belmod was at least low 2-C

 

[Omegas03]

While we are at it, everyone who scales to the GoDs should have their range upgraded as well. How in the world would they be relative or superior to the GoDs in all aspects but range? Why would Champa have more range than MUI Goku or Gogeta Blue? it's not like they have some special chracteristic that makes their range better.

That's just dumb.

 

[Cropfist]

I agree with this.

 

[Maxnumb231]

if base jiren meaning not him at his limit breaking state then I might agree he scale to this, however... I don't see the point of using the manga statements from what was gathered in this OP, which is less consistent than what shown from the others screenshots.

 

[Omegas03]

Bump.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

At least Low 2-C CHADren seems fine.

 

[Hasty12345]

this looks good, I agree with the changes

 

[ZERO7772]

Making another key for Goku is such a lame thing to do tbh.

Don't care about adding "At least" for Jiren but 3rd Sign Goku wasn't AS powerful as Jiren since Jiren only went full power near the end, which then Goku went to MUI and stomped the life out of him. Since Sign Goku never fought Jiren at his 100% power he has no valid statement really to put him above Belomd or above any GoD and we have no idea really how Belmod compares to Jiren exactly other than than the fact that Jiren is vaguely stronger.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Jiren went full power against Goku, Vegeta, and Android 17 in 126-127.

 

[Omegas03]

Welp, UIO3 Goku was vaguely stated to be in GoD territory by both Whis and Vegeta. Also I don't think Jiren was that far from Full Power when fighting him, UIO3 should backscale at least. Near the end of the fight (before MUI) he was stalemating Jiren

 

[Omegas03]

Bump, this should be pretty much straightforward to add (well at least the Jiren and Goku upgrade, unsure about the range part).

 

[Hasty12345]

This really is straight forward...

 

[Planck69]

Fine with range, not as though GoD Ki has special range properties. Not sure about everything else.

 

[Omegas03]

Bump

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

I agree with the at least low 2-C thing

 

[Sera_EX]

You never get “at least” Low 2-C by being massively stronger than another Low 2-C or even multiple Low 2-Cs.

 

[Hasty12345]

You never get “at least” Low 2-C by being massively stronger than another Low 2-C or even multiple Low 2-Cs.

if I'm not mistaken, He's at least low 2-C for being stronger than other at least low 2-C's?

Beerus (anime) is at least low 2-C is he not?

Beerus

Before any creation must come destruction!Beerus Beerus (ビルス, Birusu?) is Universe 7's God of Destruction. It is his duty to destroy planets, races, and individuals that are deemed to be a threat to the proper development of the universe. However, Beerus has become bored with his role, being...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[EFÍTÉ]

You never get “at least” Low 2-C by being massively stronger than another Low 2-C or even multiple Low 2-Cs.

Debatable, there is alot factors that changes on each verse. A example is someone casually stomping Low 2-C, depending on the verse works, being merely a little higher than baseline is enought for stomp, where on other verses being 2-C is required to stomp a Low 2-C.
From what i remember when comes to DB, stomping requires you being considerable stronger than ther other.

 

[Sera_EX]

The difference is feat-based powerscaling versus statement-based powerscaling.

Actually stomping a Low 2-C (which is a feat) vs. Statements of being much stronger than a Low 2-C. Both warrant Low 2-C by default but the former is At least Low 2-C, the latter is Low 2-C, possibly higher.

Dragon Ball Super bit itself on the foot by going for statement based scaling instead of feat based scaling.

DBZ had stuff like Imperfect Cell stomping androids who are superior to Frieza and demonstrably so by tangling with or even defeating Super Saiyans—two such Super Saiyans objectively being shown to outclass Frieza.

The degree of how far Jiren is superior to a GoD is ambiguous because he never fights one. He fights guys who are weaker than GoDs, shows power on the level of a GoD while suppressed, and is superior to one of his teammates who is rookie GoD level at full power.

And even excluding all of that, if Super Vegito is still only 4-B and not At least 4-B (or even 4-B+) for casually toying with Buuhan (due to the massive gap between baseline 4-B and the upper limit of 4-B+) then the same would be the case for Low 2-C (a tier with an infinite gap between its baseline and upper limit, which is At least Low 2-C due to nomenclature).

 

[Sera_EX]

if I'm not mistaken, He's at least low 2-C for being stronger than other at least low 2-C's?

Beerus (anime) is at least low 2-C is he not?

Beerus

Before any creation must come destruction!Beerus Beerus (ビルス, Birusu?) is Universe 7's God of Destruction. It is his duty to destroy planets, races, and individuals that are deemed to be a threat to the proper development of the universe. However, Beerus has become bored with his role, being...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Okay so let’s put it this way. If Beerus is already At least Low 2-C (which I admittedly forgot he was), then the tiers are fine. Jiren just needs another key, as mentioned above. Base Jiren (Low 2-C via statement of being > Zamasu). Full power Jiren (At least Low 2-C, more sources say his full power is above GoD level than his base). And then Burning Warrior Jiren would remain At least Low 2-C but clearly be superior to his previous full powered version.

It’s all going to just be 2-C across the board anyway, in due time, since the “half 2-C” thing is utter nonsense.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

The difference is feat-based powerscaling versus statement-based powerscaling.

Actually stomping a Low 2-C (which is a feat) vs. Statements of being much stronger than a Low 2-C. Both warrant Low 2-C by default but the former is At least Low 2-C, the latter is Low 2-C, possibly higher.

Even on those cases would still space-time busting + destruction of something more (thus making possible having a higher Low 2-C baseline), but is possible to reach 2-C by defeating Low 2-C depending on how its done and how the verse works. Saying its impossible isnt right doenst matter if is by statements or feats.
I hope this makes clears what i meant.

 

[Slacjow]

Low Multiversal range comes from the combined power of two GoDs, it shouldn't scale to their regular range.

 

[LordTracer]

Okay so let’s put it this way. If Beerus is already At least Low 2-C (which I admittedly forgot he was), then the tiers are fine. Jiren just needs another key, as mentioned above. Base Jiren (Low 2-C via statement of being > Zamasu). Full power Jiren (At least Low 2-C, more sources say his full power is above GoD level than his base). And then Burning Warrior Jiren would remain At least Low 2-C but clearly be superior to his previous full powered version.

It’s all going to just be 2-C across the board anyway, in due time, since the “half 2-C” thing is utter nonsense.

Goku should also get a new key for UIO3 since he was able to fight FP Jiren.

 

[Sera_EX]

Well yes, if Jiren gets an extra key, Goku would get another as well, or something similar.

 

[Hasty12345]

Okay so let’s put it this way. If Beerus is already At least Low 2-C (which I admittedly forgot he was), then the tiers are fine. Jiren just needs another key, as mentioned above. Base Jiren (Low 2-C via statement of being > Zamasu). Full power Jiren (At least Low 2-C, more sources say his full power is above GoD level than his base). And then Burning Warrior Jiren would remain At least Low 2-C but clearly be superior to his previous full powered version.

It’s all going to just be 2-C across the board anyway, in due time, since the “half 2-C” thing is utter nonsense.

sounds perfect

 

[Omegas03]

Base Jiren is Full Power Jiren though.

It's just that in Ep 128 and onwards he started showing his maximum capacity

Maybe you would want to separate tabs by

Suppressed | Full Power | Burning Ultimate Warrior

Or something like that, but idk if is a good idea to make tabs for a character that was hiding their true power the whole time.

Like I said, UIO3 Goku also downscales from this FP Jiren like LordTracer said. UIO3 and MUI should get merged in one tab.

Also y'all haven't addressed the range thing.

 

[Omegas03]

regarding Sera pointing out 2-C Beerus and Champa, I think there were some threads just before the forum move that were about Initial Infinite Zamasu (the one ToP god tiers scale to) being already 2-C or at least very close to it as he was already breaching into Present Universe 7/Zeno's reactions point out that he already merged with more than one universe at the time. Maybe someone could make a CRT and bring up new arguments to make 2-C DBS possible, I dunno.

 

[ZERO7772]

Since when we are giving keys to characters who suppress their power on purpose? He doesn't have sales on his power or anything, he was just holding back cuz plot

Giving Jiren a new key is dumb.

Also I still stand by what I said earlier, although I kinda disagree with the whole "half low 2-C" thing anyway so meh.