J.M. DeMatteis Cosmology Revision

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Nice find! I might even find myself agreeing with the CRT before I eventually get to this (which hopefully won’t take long with finals and all).

Yeah, Matteis does write flowery but the idea and intent were there. Please, take your time!

 

[Brahmatman]

The size of Dreams aren't really specified or stated,

Specified
Floating through that infinite sea where random thought echoes and instantly materializes

Well, in general, yes, everything is on point and confirms the instructions from other comics, which are the connecting idea of DeMatteis

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

The Dream theory is always present in Matteis Cosmology. All the stories I referenced is him being the main writer or the scriptwriter.

 

[Brahmatman]

The Dream theory is always present in Matteis Cosmology. All the stories I referenced is him being the main writer or the scriptwriter.

Am I understanding correctly that you only give 1-B dream hierarchy? If we have infinite dimensions, and it is even known that they are meant to be spatial, and the universes themselves are just holograms of dreams, representing an endless chain of dreams that are ephemeral in relation to each other, then is it possible to give a higher level for this?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Am I understanding correctly that you only give 1-B dream hierarchy?

No, when I mentioned that I was saying at bare minimum if High 1-B didn't get accepted.

If we have infinite dimensions, and it is even known that they are meant to be spatial, and the universes themselves are just holograms of dreams, representing an endless chain of dreams that are ephemeral in relation to each other, then is it possible to give a higher level for this?

I think we can even go for High 1-A because the set quantity is unquantifiable. However, I don't think that will go well, and I hope Ultima's proposal gets accepted because I don't think mathematics should be considered quality or be the basis of what makes a verse higher in tier.

 

[PrinceStories]

Am I understanding correctly that you only give 1-B dream hierarchy? If we have infinite dimensions, and it is even known that they are meant to be spatial, and the universes themselves are just holograms of dreams, representing an endless chain of dreams that are ephemeral in relation to each other, then is it possible to give a higher level for this?

Goofy has explained more specifically about the infinite number of hierarchy dreams and he has also provided a conclusion on page 1.

Scaling:

Creation: High 1-B
There are infinite universes to which each reality is divided into levels and exists across a sort of Nexus called the Consciousness of God. The Dream contains sequences of dreams that become more real and transcend the previous to invoke a hierarchy of infinite between each plane/world in the Dream.

Which fits this standard:

The whole idea fits it perfectly. There are infinite dimensions, there is an endless hierarchy with each one level surpassing the previous one into insignificance.

Pralaya: Low 1-A
An aspect of God and the entire ocean of nothing. Completely transcends and is separated from Creation and it's an endless hierarchy. Transcends Maya(Creation), Creator(Aspect of God), and beyond all hierarchies of dreams(Limitless Planes).

Outside any extension of an infinite hierarchy and its varying degrees. No amount of Creation can fill the infinite unmanifest Void.

God: 1-A
God surpasses and transcends everything even Pralaya who is no more an illusion as is an atom. All of them combined together in any degree are fictitious and exist in his mind. His original state is the perfection of power, knowledge, and bliss and the one true soul reality.

To how Pralaya transcends Creation so does God to both her and Creation.

 

[Brahmatman]

No, when I mentioned that I was saying at bare minimum if High 1-B didn't get accepted.

As a replacement if one is not accepted. It sounds good

I think we can even go for High 1-A because the set quantity is unquantifiable. However, I don't think that will go well, and I hope Ultima's proposal gets accepted because I don't think mathematics should be considered quality or be the basis of what makes a verse higher in tier.

If a fictional universe doesn't use these concepts and techniques, then I don't see why it needs to be taken into account. Thus, Swamp Thing can be assigned level 0 for existing outside of mathematics

 

[Brahmatman]

Goofy has explained more specifically about the infinite number of hierarchy dreams and he has also provided a conclusion on page 1.

I understand

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Yup, just need more mods opinions on this matter.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Who does this affect btw? Just those 3 in the op?

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

@ProfectusInfinity Care to comment?

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

@ProfectusInfinity Care to comment?

Yeah, I'll try to respond sometime sooner this week, but other members can keep discussing in the meantime.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Who does this affect btw? Just those 3 in the op?

God, Pralaya, Maya, maybe Chaos and Order. Also, the World Tree and Andrew Benett could be a profile. The JLD members will not change, however.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Matteis Inspiration:

Matteis had many spiritual journeys and growth through his lifetime. More specifically he went to India and met the spiritual master called “Meher Baba” who changed his life and his views on things. This is heavily known to be the case since most of his “God” characters are designed after the man.

Meher Baba devoted his life after talking to an old lady in silence and has for over 40+ years. The biggest inspiration that Matteis took is his story called “God’s Speak” which pinpointed the origin of Creation and how it came to be. As such what we learn is that everything we see within Creation is nothing more than a dream or a false illusion of the true reality that is God and simply him alone.

• Reference: States of consciousness are dependent upon the realization of what each Atma is when compared to the Paramatma from which they originated at the same point. Thus self-limitation is put within the Dream or Illusion as a way of experiencing growth through the three stages: Gross, Sutble, and Mental. This goes within the seven stages of evolution (a reference to Charles Darwin's theory but more so where evolution comes from and how it is defined, and not just how things evolve physically.)
• Story: As we see the Phantom Stranger comes to Eugene Di Bella (Eric Strauss's new form given by the Avatar) and tells him that everything is just a Dream dreamt up by God. Each Soul living the dream where his love might find expression. (Doctor Fate Vol.2 #20)
• Phantom Strangers mention they are all connected to the one Oversoul that sprung all Creation. From our seven gross states of involution to being the drop of water in the entire Primal Ocean. The drop seeks difference from the Ocean but because each iota of water is one with the Ocean, each drop(Soul) is the entire Ocean. (Doctor Fate Vol.2 #20)

All of this is fine, interesting too.

Echelons of Wordings:
In case, you're confused with wording:

• worlds = universes, realities
• dimensions = parallel realities
• Dimension = spatial dimensions
• The Universe = All Creation, all of Existence, The Dream, Creation, Reality, Illusion

Yeah, these terms tend to be context dependent.

Creation Origin:
The origin of Creation started with the OM point which is used interchangeably with the Creation point. Where God springs his first urge of consciousness to question who he is. (Seekers into the Mystery Vol.1 #9)

The endless ocean of nothing or also known as the Sea of Brahma predates everything which again is nothing that expanded ad infinitium is a latent of Everything. This is why the entire Ocean is still God and when he first sprang brought about endless waves of light that turned the Ocean of nothing into the Ocean of love. (Seekers into the Mystery Vol.1 #9)

Thus Creation sprang forth from God own very breath. When God births Oneness that splits into duality forming Chaos and Order to represent all the forms of duality. Then came an explosion of not power, but of his love which brought about all Creation from the animals, universes, and all forms of life. (Doctor Fate Vol.2 #6)

This is fine, creation in Seekers into the Mystery and in Doctor Fate are the same which shows DeMatteis' underlying philosophy within his works.

Yuga Cycle:
Matteis heavily drew inspiration from Hindu belief thus referring to how the cycle of Creation comes from the Hindu Yuga Cycle. (Doctor Fate Vol.1 #1)

1. First Yuga(Satya) - The first age is perfection—Order sustained by the shadow of Chaos. Perfection for 1,128,000 years!
2. Second Yuga(Treta) - The Second Yuga still finds man in harmony, the Universe in balance but something—unwanted—emerges—something…wrong.
3. Third Yuga(Dwapara)- In the Third Yuga, Chaos influence is finally felt. It rises up to challenge Order. And suffering spreads its wings and flies across the Cosmos. And the Worm if madness began to burrow through men's minds. And so it remains—for another 864,000 years.
4. Fourth Yuga(Kali) - Then comes the Kali Yuga…The Fourth and Final Age—when Chaos rises triumphant when the forces of Destruction grow in fury—when the Universe dissolves in the fire.

This cycle is meant to bring about rebirth after death as this happened countless amounts of times in the Night of Brahma when the Creator goes to sleep. When the Mahapralaya eats at Creation it dissolves into fire with Kali Yuga and Pralaya eating it all after the reign of Chaos ends. As a metaphor, Creation springs forth like a Lotus burning birth but over time shrinks and shrivels until it eats itself from the inside. (Doctor Fate Vol.2 #3)

After the cycle of death Creation begets upon a new beginning, a new cycle an age of men beyond the previous. This Golden Age(Shamaballa) is meant to be beyond the opposite and control of Chaos or Order while still being insignificant to the vast Sea of Eternity. (Doctor Fate Vol.2 #10)

This is fine.

Material Plane(Gross):
The first layer of the Dream is in the Gross plane where the most simple idea is material. Thus the Soul has a body to venture through things physically and with their five senses. Which is the first skin of reality as things such as the spiritual plane are next and everything here is the the the first life that the Soul takes. (Spectre Vol.4 #18). This is where the Soul begins its journey whether in rebirth or recreation, where one must assume mortal form. (Legends of the DC Universe Vol.1 #34)

• Here there are parallel universes and infinite dimensions. (Larfleeze Vol.1 #5)
• Dimensions are boundless in nature since everything is infinite in nature. (Larfleeze Vol.1 #3)
• Through spaces and stars and across all of Creation are infinite dimensions. Different parallel realities. (Highlighting spatial dimensions given Corps takes place in space and the universes are infinite in size and one beings embodies space and time) (Larfleeze Vol.1 #4)
• The universe is technically endless(used in conjunction to infinite) (Superman: Kanas Sighting Vol.1 #1)
• There are countless amount or more so uncountable amounts of universes. As a person dreaming can drift through layers into the dream. (Seekers into the Mystery Vol.1 #10)
• Through infinite doorways to worlds. Where theis places had dimensional skies that whirled down endlessly. (Justice League Dark Vol.1 #33)
• Through undreamed universes that even minds haven't imagined. (Green Lantern: Willworld Vol.1 #1)
• With entire universes parallel to Hal Jordan being dreamed of in an ocean of dreams with a materialistic view as one of them (Green Lantern: Willworld Vol.1 #1)
• A Crown of Chakra that connects to everything. Even through infinite worlds. (Adventures of Superman Vol.1 #580)
• Some parts are dreams within the Dream of Creations and it’s mirrors illusions. (Adventures of Superman Vol.1 #586)
• Infinite bubbles for each mind to conjure up entire levels of dreams. Each infinite hell is a world of their own of their own making. Reality is used in conjunction with possible planes. (Adventures of Superman Vol.1 #583)
• Each mind can express and create entire universes neighboring each other in an ocean of dreams. Even with the dreaming sense of the universe, there are still more levels that dreams are within dreams. (Green Lantern: Willworlds Vol.1 #1)

Larfleeze story later expresses that dimension is used interchangeable with worlds. However, do note this was specifically within this story as the rest of the time, dimension is used interchangeably with higher reality, since the Universe is infinite and layered, each level has a specific dimensionality. Thus the Gross could reach up to twelve dimensions. God himself exist within any level of the Dream as he tries to wake us up from the God with everything as an expression of him, no matter the detail. Most Angels and the world above of reality and those planes transcends each other. The Gross is infinite but limited in its sense, that one plane is simply a fiction to another, one must cut through these layers or mask of reality to find God. (Green Lantern: Willworld Vol.1 #1). There are many planes across Creation that one must go through even Lord Indra of Fourth Heaven is nowhere near the final.

Funny enough, sometimes parallel world are world beyond material and places beyond limitation and sometimes new ones replaced by Maya. As such God can take you through every depth of any world as worlds are used interchangeably with planes as well. (Seekers into the Mystery Vol.1 #15)

"Across parrallel worlds and infinite dimensions" probably needs some further argumentation to prove it refers to spatial dimensions.

The place of "infinite doorways to infinite universes" and "dimensional skies sprialling onto infinity" which Dead Man was flying through does seem to imply higher-dimensionalities.

The fact that there are many, many planes and layers of creation or dream (existence), with the "mundane" layer being the most simple and then one can progress onto counterless higher and more complex layers with creation being the dream of God in the end is inarguable. The difficulty is proving the "gaps" between layers, the quantitive or qualititive superiorities which corresponds to VSB's system but higher layers of the dream, higher planes, are obviously vastly superior to lower ones in both qualititive and quantitive terms.

I think what @Robo432343 posted regarding QS from the Seekers of the Mystery combined with this proves the qualitative superiority as you transcend into higher planes.

Subtle Plane:

Some minor places goes beyond just what material can bring from our involution in the Gross Plane. Like souls wondering where they will end up in the Subtle places. A place of in between with the balance of karma with souls possessing possibilities of going on to the next. (Doctor Fate Vol.2 Annual #1)

Some things subtle are much more than physical. That some enemies of illusions keep coming back thanks to that. (Adventures of Superman Vol.1 #586)

This is fine.

Higher Planes(Mental and Beyond):

There are planes above the world we live in physically. That when a Soul lives it’s next life, it transcends beyond just the material plane as such Heaven. Some beings through their psyche can descend upon levels into worlds, heavens, et cetera. Each form in each level will be transcended until all endless forms are transcended. (Supergirl: Wings Vol.1 #1). Angels are thoughts and forms of the God that could be perceived through the veils and all levels
of Creation. (Green Lantern: Willworlds Vol.1 #1)

• Heaven: Some Souls venture even further from conventional Heaven when souls turn to pure energy. (Doctor Fate Vol.2 #17) This is quite the deal because each Soul is a fragment of infinite consciousness like God working on levels. Thus like droplets to the Ocean without a shore, each consciousness is as infinite as the fragments of the infinite. (Adventures of Superman Vol.1 #584). Some planes are far above each other and in different incarnations of life on different planes remove one layer of the endless, limitless plane across all of Existence and our being to find the One True Creator. Perhaps that's the Golden Age we aspire to be in. (Spectre Vol.4 #3) This happens in the beginning and the endless end with the Soul venturing through countless lifetimes until they reach that ocean of love with him again connected by the Oversoul, by the Avatar, the magical last dance. Each soul is tailor-made to their faith thus each faith finds its version of Heaven and there are many Heavens for each Soul. While these Souls are in serenity and bliss, Heaven is a place that transcends the material world, thus the “days” within Heaven transcend those of the material plane with some places having non-time. (Doctor Fate Vol.2 #8). Heaven and what levels there is to it is a level deeper than material, closer to God as we dwell deeper into the Mystery. (Spectre Vol.4 #20)
• Hell: Some planes like Hell are not places but of consciousness since humans make their own Hell and not God. (Phamton Stranger Vol.4 #9) There are as many hells we make of our consciousness, humans and gods all collectively make any and all dreams with one beyond all of them. (Superman: Man of Tomorrow Vol.1 #15) Each thing is the shadow behind shadows, to the truer part and each layer is man taking away their limitation until they meet God.
• Shattered Now/Mirrors of Illusions: This place is the place beyond the infinite illusory of realities defined as mirrors. Where every moment is defined simultaneously across all versions of Justice League Dark members as distorted memories and versions of them. Everything stays there as is as all things come together and everything only becomes undiluted, thus waves and waves of these illusions come at them. (Justice League Dark Vol.1 #37)
• Kingdom of Now: This place is the place beyond the infinite illusory of realities defined as mirrors. While those mirrors are of inverted time, this place is non-time and non-local to the below realities with past and future. A place of in-between beyond between where all moments are now, a twilight of the worlds/planes as they never end. A place of only one instance living beyond that of what infinity describes. Where every breath is infinite and each step finds and contains eternity, where you may see all the universes in the grains of sand or all the heavens in a fruit. A place of paradoxes because it's only “now.”(Justice League Dark Vol.1 #37)
• Collective Unconcious: This is not a conventional realm but a state of a place purely of the psyche. Where all imagination comes forth from this realm of consciousness and birth and creates monsters of every kind like Trans or Blight. (Justice League Dark Vol.1 #24). A place of non-time with only what the mind can create making both time and distance as useless concepts unless you make it. This place is where things of the mind manifest and are considered metaphysical in nature. Everything has the same definition here like mind and matter so we can create our personal universes, entire realities that are beyond the ones we left. A sea of colorful texture manifesting archetypes and symbols from which the mind imagines. (JLA/Spectre: Souls War Vol.1 #2)

With each being in higher reality has a state of existence, of consciousness where even concepts like dimensions no longer apply, only levels of existence at that point. Remember the entire concept of dimension whether spatial or temporal or any levels of infinite limited to the aliens much less the Dreamer himself, who is us. (Doctor Fate Vol.2 #24). All this is connected to the World Tree. (Justice League Dark Vol.1 #38).

This is fine.

Creation(Maya/Dream):

Maya is the Hindu goddess of Illusion as the one illusion behind True Reality. She comes in many forms from all beliefs and can be seen as the Devil's figure in some Western beliefs. If God is the projectionist behind the Cinema then Maya is every version of the Movie as she is the Movie as well. She is the Shadow of God’s Light when he brought forth everything as her flesh gave substance to everything in the Dream. (Seekers into the Mystery Vol.1 #13)

• God is the one True Reality beyond Creation or the illusions carved by Maya. This is why God had to become human to be the messenger to awaken the Soul from the nightmare that separates them. She is part of him with a lesser substance than just the dream that God is trying to wake us from, so with just his expression created Maya as the Dream for us with just a gesture that encompassed her as everything. (Seekers into the Mystery Vol.1 #13)
• Maya encompasses all Creation. Thus she simultaneously embodies every layer of the dream as just illusions away from God. She does this to preserve her existence so that humans believe in her to keep her nurtured. If a Soul believes otherwise, they will merge with the Magician/God as an infinite limitless Oneness and Maya would have no definition because Reality is only defined by God and him alone. (Seekers into the Mystery Vol.1 #13)
• Maya has to have the consent of the person as her webs of illusion can be seen through. That beyond is only the Void that brought all of us from the Primal Ocean which God expressed Creation through her. Without any to belief in her, she will cease to exist. (Seekers into the Mystery Vol.1 #14)

Pralaya(Illusion/Sea of Brahma):

Before Creation and the Creator was only a sea. This metaphorical sea had many names to describe an infinite ocean of nothing before God manifested his consciousness. Apparently, Matteis told me she transcended Maya who is the Dream/Creation. This could mean that “Illusion” is the entire mind of God since he claims even Pralaya/Void is contained by God and is his unconsciousness. (Justice League Dark Vol.1 #39)

• The Sea of Brahma is an unmanifested Void thus infinite in nature and is of non-time as well as the concept of space within Creation. Here is the Beyond-Beyond where all forms of thoughts, meaning, and matter dies. A sea of eternal nothing drifting through endless darkness is the nature of Pralaya. (Justice League Dark Vol.1 #38)
• She is the Darkness that preceded the Light and managed to collapse the entire Timestream. Not to mention, she figured the entire infinite Now kingdom. She herself is just a projection of the same infinite Void. (Justice League Dark Vol.1 #39)
• She also managed to eat all of Creation from every corner like the process of Mahapralaya that the Lords of Chaos and Order fear. Similar, to when Andrew Bennett drowned all Creation with the song to awaken or to put about the Brahma Sleep. (Doctor Fate Vol.2 #6)

God:

Whatever you may call him; God, Primal Ocean, Smile behind the Universe, the Magician, Mother, Father, etc…..He is the one God beyond opposite and is all opposite where everything comes from his love.

• The Smile behind the Universe and beyond Mahapralaya. The one that exists behind, beyond, and within all things including the fate of Mahapralaya. This Smile or God cannot be fathomed but only loved as everything comes from his fiery breath and will all return to him. Something that everyone has seen once that seems so perfect with awe and serenity that a Soul can only wish to understand and to do that with only Love. A God who commands the endless cycle of sleep and control when Mahapralaya comes. (Doctor Fate Vol.2 #6)
• He is the entire Primal Ocean that is filled with Love and contains the seeds of Everything. Something so impossible and paradoxical where all things on all levels emanated from this OM point. (Seekers into the Mystery Vol.1 #9)
• The Nameless God beyond words and language to who is the Director that plays our lives and we represent a piece of his divine thought that we will return to. (The Last One Vol.1 #1)
• The Smile that brought the fire of life, that fire was the birth of Oneness, to who split into duality and from there all of Creation came from an explosion of love. The entire Dream Ocean is now here expanded in all levels in his Universal truth. (Doctor Fate Vol.2 #6)
• The Divine Presence that contains and surpasses everything in Creation. A Void beyond all voids that is the cosmic emptiness before thought, forms, and us. (Spectre Vol.4 #10)

This is fine.

Scaling:

Creation: High 1-B
There are infinite universes to which each reality is divided into levels and exists across a sort of Nexus called the Consciousness of God. The Dream contains sequences of dreams that become more real and transcend the previous to invoke a hierarchy of infinite between each plane/world in the Dream.

Which fits this standard:
The whole idea fits it perfectly. There are infinite dimensions, there is an endless hierarchy with each one level surpassing the previous one into insignificance.

Pralaya: Low 1-A
An aspect of God and the entire ocean of nothing. Completely transcends and is separated from Creation and it's an endless hierarchy. Transcends Maya(Creation), Creator(Aspect of God), and beyond all hierarchies of dreams(Limitless Planes).
Outside any extension of an infinite hierarchy and its varying degrees. No amount of Creation can fill the infinite unmanifest Void.

God: 1-A
God surpasses and transcends everything even Pralaya who is no more an illusion as is an atom. All of them combined together in any degree are fictitious and exist in his mind. His original state is the perfection of power, knowledge, and bliss and the one true soul reality.
To how Pralaya transcends Creation so does God to both her and Creation

I agree with this, especially combined with Robo's post about QS.

I should add though maybe you could find a way to add DeMatteis' collective unconciousness here? Perhaps the CU is in a lower part of the dream than God.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I should add though maybe you could find a way to add DeMatteis' collective unconciousness here? Perhaps the CU is in a lower part of the dream than God.

It's there below the Kingdom of Now in the Higher Planes section. Where exactly it is still unknown since it's very much of the mind and everything technically is of the mind. It could be as high or as low as possible but definitely beyond Material.

Edit: Oh, you mean tiering. I really couldn't tell, but I think Material can reach as high as 1-B. So I would argue, it's somewhere in the 1-B range.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Also, we should readd the Divine Presence as a profile. Perhaps just “God.”

We will also use the old Pralaya keys where her avatar is High 1-B because she scales to Creation and literally ate it in its entirety. While her true form which is the metaphorical Sea of Brahma/Mahapralaya is Low 1-A.

 

[Elizio33]

I've always seen the DeMatteis cosmology as High 1-B/1-A anyway, I agree with the op.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I've always seen the DeMatteis cosmology as High 1-B/1-A anyway, I agree with the op.

Matteis is better off with an infinite hierarchy while Vertigo the infinite spatial dimensions.

 

[Robo432343]

God from seekers into the mystery would be affected by this right?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

God from seekers into the mystery would be affected by this right?

I suggest we merge the profile. Matteis literally states all his God characters are the same regardless of publication company.

 

[Elizio33]

Matteis is better off with an infinite hierarchy while Vertigo the infinite spatial dimensions.

At least the void and anyone who scale to it in Vertigo should be likely 1-A, but this is a case for another thread.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

At least the void and anyone who scale to it in Vertigo should be likely 1-A, but this is a case for another thread.

Correct, I'll soon make a thread on it.

Lucifer's Creation “infinite dimension”

So I was looking over the revision project when something popped into my mind. Lucifer’s Creation might have infinite dimensions. As we know Mike Carey explicitly states that he sees Universe and Multiverse as synonymous to describe an all-encompassing Creation. Highlighting that the Universe...

vsbattles.com

^I need to update this lol.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Please, close that specific thread and I will be making my Vertigo thread.

 

[Elizio33]

Please, close that specific thread and I will be making my Vertigo thread.

Alright I'll do it.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Please, close that specific thread and I will be making my Vertigo thread.

bro's single handingly upgrading dc

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

bro's single handingly upgrading dc

I can't for Grant since they merged his with Willaimson, Tynion IV, and Snyder. At best, I could only see 1-B for Grant and 1-C for the other three.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

With Grant, I have to go with the uncanny route with the Grand Unified Theory and honestly, I feel the mods will disclose it.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

So you're saying DeMattis and Vertigo will be 1-A while Crisis will be 1-B?

 

[Robo432343]

Let’s leave that discussion for later

 

[Deagonx]

I don't believe the claim for an infinite QS hierarchy are sufficient here, personally.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

So you're saying DeMattis and Vertigo will be 1-A while Crisis will be 1-B?

The former, yes. The latter, no. Since it's merged, it's best we keep it at 1-C. However, I do request you guys try to separate Grant from the other three. If you will his thing can range from maybe 1-B to baseline 1-A with the highest interpretation.

 

[Westcoast5005]

The former, yes. The latter, no. Since it's merged, it's best we keep it at 1-C. However, I do request you guys try to separate Grant from the other three. If you will his thing can range from maybe 1-B to baseline 1-A with the highest interpretation.

Considering grant Morrison and is animal man comics should be treated differently from Snyder as what has been established there is different from the the other works

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Considering grant Morrison and is animal man comics should be treated differently from Snyder as what has been established there is different from the the other works

Yes, but that will be left to be discussed on a different topic. This is just whether you agree with my proposal for Matteis Cosmology.

 

[Westcoast5005]

Well I agree. Especially because of his other stories that he did for example marvel manthing and divine creator it just makes sense.

 

[Elizio33]

To make it very short, I think a separate Morrison cosmology is possible but only with the following material: Animal Man, JLA, Doom Patrol, Action Comics...

Final Crisis, Multiversity, Green Lantern (2019) should stay in the Crisis Cosmology since the very basis of Scott Snyder and Joshua Williamson's works were primarily based on what Morrison established since Final Crisis and Multiversity. It wouldn't make sense to not add them.

Back on the topic now.

 

[Asterotheology]

I agree with most of the thread. However, I disagree with the inclusion of Seekers into the Mystery and The Last One. While DeMatteis is the writer for them, they're his creator owned comics and aren't apart of DC comics. It doesn't really matter if he treats God the same in them, that doesn't change that we don't composite creator owned stuff with the main verse comics. It's why Unwritten by Carey and Murder Mysteries by Gaiman can't be used for upgrades. It's also why Seekers into the Mystery already has its own page separated from DC.

So, I agree with the thread but disagree with adding and using scans from DeMatteis creator owned stuff into his DC Cosmology.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I agree with most of the thread. However, I disagree with the inclusion of Seekers into the Mystery and The Last One. While DeMatteis is the writer for them, they're his creator owned comics and aren't apart of DC comics. It doesn't really matter if he treats God the same in them, that doesn't change that we don't composite creator owned stuff with the main verse comics. It's why Unwritten by Carey and Murder Mysteries by Gaiman can't be used for upgrades. It's also why Seekers into the Mystery already has its own page separated from DC.

So, I agree with the thread but disagree with adding and using scans from DeMatteis creator owned stuff into his DC Cosmology.

I thought of this but unlike the other creators owned story. It perfectly blends into his works and still works on the Dream Theory. While Unwritten and Murder Mystery goes against whatever was of the Sandman Universe.

 

[Asterotheology]

I thought of this but unlike the other creators owned story. It perfectly blends into his works and still works on the Dream Theory. While Unwritten and Murder Mystery goes against whatever was of the Sandman Universe.

While the similarities are there, it's still not a part of DC. It being creator owned is the main factor. I suppose you can ask Ant, Deagonx or any other staff if they'll make an exception to the rule(?) for it.

 

[Swordsaint456]

Here is more evidence of QS (totally not copy pasted)
At the beginning of the story, Lucas experienced dreams, reminiscent to his past, constantly. This certain point of events is part of the premise of the story. These dreams were at first insubstantial, but later on, it reveal to held impact in the story. These dreams is actually layered, with dreams being qualitatively superior than the last.

Issue # 13, P. 12
“ The Magician's the one who's interested in ripping the truth out of you... In stripping the layers of dreams and dragging you into a light that's so bright--it will blind you and burn you alive. „

It is further reiterated with another definition such as it being called levels of existence.

Issue # 13, P. 10
“ You've seen for yourself, these past weeks there are levels of existence far beyond what you've know. „

Dreams aren't merely simple "dreams", higher dreams can replace what is reality and become more real to it, and there would be another higher dream above it, as shown here; Dreams was able to replace reality, when it was only being viewed as fiction, and afterwards another one can ascend to another higher dream if allowed by God
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This should explicate and elucidate the fact that the difference between the dreams are qualitatively superior. These dreams are, of course, still part of Maya. As she represent all things in creation. The size of Dreams aren't really specified or stated, however it can contain uncountable universes. This should scale to all other dreams, as there's no invalidations nor statements against it, there's actually more supporting it than against it.

Issue # 10, P. 13
“ Then the dreams began: naked, I drift through uncountable universes, falling through the heart of exploding stars. Goddesses of unspeakable beauty would press me against their breasts, gods of terrible power would pierce me with their swords. „

Beyond these layers of dreams, or to be exact; beyond Maya, would be the the True Reality; God. God is the being that emanated these dreams.

Issue # 10, P. 15
“ He had come. The singer whose song seduced my heart. The poet whose words brought forth the world. The Reality from which emanated all my cherished dreams. And He flew with me across eternity, danced with me down into time's timeless depth. Silently he gave his love and silently I accept it. „

This is further supported the fact that stripping the layers of dreams would result of being absorbed into God's existence.

Issue # 13, P. 12
“ The Magician's the one who's interested in ripping the truth out of you... In stripping the layers of dreams and dragging you into a light that's so bright--it will blind you and burn you alive. „

The scans linked don't work for me

 

[PrinceStories]

I disagree with the inclusion of Seekers into the Mystery and The Last One. While DeMatteis is the writer for them, they're his creator owned comics and aren't apart of DC comics.

There is no official statement from DC or DeMatteis that Seekers into the mystery is not part of the DCU And the magician also appeared in comic Doctor Fate Vol 2.