This argument is a full circle. Theres nothing supporting why creating the Endless should require more power than the Hands outside of you just asserting that it should. I don’t know how you expect anybody to take an argument like this seriously, it practically starts and ends at “because I said so.”
Sounds like you're conceding on this point.
You’re missing the point. I’m not claiming the Endless are bound by humanity, I’m saying while the aspects of the Endless arise through cultural and perceptual interpretation, the Endless, as stated explicitly by the comic, arise from the Big Bang.
The Big Bang raised the aspect, the whole is something that's from Time essence. You not getting this is causing the confusion because you claim that humans affect “The Endless” proxy through said aspect, which I explicitly state wasn't the case. So, obviously, we’re at a difference but through your premise, that's is what you're saying unless you expect me to believe humans created The Endless (in that aspect, which they didn't).
Also yes the Hands did create the CU, as it’s literally a part of the seven energies that make up the totality. If it didn’t come with their act of creation, it wouldn’t be listed as one of the energies within their power.
The Totality that make up the seven energies is literally distinct from Perpetua, it was already the energies within The Source. She fashioned the Multiverse into the three realms of matter, the energies simply grew with the Multiverse, she never directly made any of the seven.
None of this addresses my point of contention about the Endless originating from the Big Bang. I actually don’t even really know why you typed this as it’s basically a semantical nitpick of yours.
I answered, you're just choosing to be ignorant and deflecting points.
I didn’t base my stance off a name or label, stop trying to downsize my argument.
That's precisely my point, the name and reference is to a specific and previous story, you're adding nonsensical context, that's the issue.
When they say stuff like “immaculate perfection”, “immaculate intelligence”, “Heart of Monitor perfection”, etc, they’re setting up metaphysical descriptors to help build emphasis to the reader of what the Overvoid is.
It was explained in Multiversity because the Overvoid was “unstained and unflawed” that why it was “immaculately perfect” as per the name to describe its state, in which it was hence why it found “hitherto, a flaw in its heart” so up until that point, it was that perfection. So saying immaculate perfection is just saying what the Monitor-Mind is, which it didn't say “The Monitor was immaculately perfect,” as so much to use that as a description, but the emphasis was “Immaculate Perfection” reacting to The Flaw as in “The Overvoid found a flaw.” So, yeah, it was just what it was called prior to the Multiverse “hitherto (until)” a flaw was found.
Dark Crisis emphasizes that The Overvoid is that immaculate perfection of light because it is the perfect Light that went against the Darkness. If you interpret something else, then you'd be reading it wrong.
I don’t really think Snyder contradicted Morrison, I just think it stems from bad interpretations by other people mostly.
Snyder doesn't distinctly use those terms. He just treats the Overvoid as space for the Multiverses.
I don’t think I’m being generous at all. Final Crisis and Multiversity are densely packed stories where every sentence has multiple layers of meaning that’ll make someone have to revisit the book over and over again to build a confident interpretation.
Arguing with you and a certain individuals makes me reread it over and over again, every story has “several meaning,” Multiversity is no more special than most stories simply because it delves into metaphysics. If not then Morrison wouldn't be a profilic writer, if he couldn't write what he thinks on paper (which is ironic).
The “you’re looking too deep bro” argument is probably the worst thing you could pull for these two stories.
No, you're adding random context to scans with a few dialogues.
Also I don’t know why you’re acting like Grant is super subtle about Neoplatonism. It’s literally thrown up and down throughout final crisis and Multiversity, and it’s like blatantly stated within Grants own interviews. It’s hard to go digging deep for what’s being pretty much shoved in your face page after page, interview after interview.
No, he's very subtle since in his interview he explains his thoughts process a whole lot more than he does in his comic.
His “Overvoid” conception and the use of non-duality are closer to Southeastern philosophy. You somehow come out with the most outlandish take on a scan, that does not even name-drop anything, because for all I know, the message during his Green Lantern run was fitting the theme of the Laterns, not just a metaphysical references without any correlation to the story. So I suggest, you read the second part of the scan about the “rainbow” theory you had and see if it correlates to Neoplatoism, or just describes the Emotional Spectrum. The former is far-fetched and the latter is the whole point, more so the actual message.
Ok well first of all, there is no Snyder view I’m speaking against right now. What I’m speaking against is your view of Snyder’s stories, and your view is that Scott Snyder retconned the Overvoid or whatever. Although obviously, you know I don’t agree with that.
The point is that The Endless and Night/Time are almost exclusively dwell deep with their origin in their runs, that's why the rich lore you keep ignoring explains the origin of The Endless proper in correlation to aspect and whole. The History only simplifies, but, The Overvoid reappears in the mainstream stories hence the changes. If it were strictly described like how Morrison intended especially during his Doom Patrol and Kid Eternity, it would have no problem being 0, that's the thing, the other authors I mentioned never treated it as such and never described it in any manner like Morrison.
Good counter.
The Red is not the anima mundi, it’s a part of the anima mundi serving as a pathway for it to be reached.
It’s literally the anima mundi alongside the morphogenetic field, M-Field, etc…. They're all the same name for The Red.
And while I do agree that his connection to the World Soul played a part, I really think it was about Buddy becoming pure thought that allowed him to go beyond illusion and become one with the Clear Light.
Again, this isn't something that's stated, you're making another contrived headcanon. Just agree about the first part, because evidently the second part is your speculation as per “I really think.” So, you know your adding your own personal thoughts that the scan has nothing to do with, what the hell is the “clear light” that isn't even a coined term for anything. Another one of the descriptors for the “Light of Creation” I take it as you intended despite that very being the point of that storyline.
I’m confused because this is basically a concession on your end no? If I’ve been saying the Monitor Mind the Overvoid is the mind of God and you think the Overvoid is opposite of darkness, to say now that darkness is the mind of God would be completely conceding your original point.
No, The Great Darkness is the unconscious mind of God, I never said the Light/Overvoid was the same mind because of “opposites,” that was you.
You’re also kind of still contradicting yourself. If the mind of God not actively dreaming is the unconscious, then unconscious would by your own definition be a state of the mind, not the mind itself.
When you're conscious and you think, your mind is “thinking.” When you're unconscious and you don't think, you're mind isn't thinking.
So mind = the state of said mind. You're overcomplicating something that's not hard to understand.
Which makes sense, because whether the mind is conscious or unconscious is irrelevant to its stature.
Then your point was obsolete to begin with. You're now just backtracking.
It will still remain fixed as the container for whatever state it’s in. Or in DC’s terms, whether it’s dreaming or not dreaming of creation, it doesn't become more or diminished from what it is. So the Overvoid must by foundation, always be an immutable, immaculate, totality, containing all concepts and thoughts within itself, including the duality light and dark, and all the others.
Sounds quite like you're going on random tangents when you're backed into a corner without having anything to say. You’re points above are useless, if you argue they weren't important or relevant, so which is it?
Bro you conceded already pack it up.
Real mature, quite frankly, something you've seen to suggest as I progressively see you starting to back peddle on your stances especially nearing the end. Not a hard tone to convey, so save me your retort, you should take your own statement at face value.
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