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Izuku CRT, OFA and durability
- Thread starter Andytrenom
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Question does this affect anyone else?
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Just for clarification, is there any actual proof that OFA increases durability? I feel like if OFA did increase the users durability, it would've been mentioned at least once.
All Might was able to handle OFA almost instantly and Gran Torino said that the only thing he had going for him was his body. Meaning the reason he can handle OFA almost instantly was because of his body.
Not only that but Izuku says over and over that he needs to train his body so he can handle OFA. That was the whole point of the 10 month training, he needed to have a stronger body to handle OFA's power, if not then the power would've killed him.
When Izuku uses 8% for the first time, he says that he's able to use it because of how much he trained his body, he hadn't realized how much stronger he had gotten.
All Might was able to handle OFA almost instantly and Gran Torino said that the only thing he had going for him was his body. Meaning the reason he can handle OFA almost instantly was because of his body.
Not only that but Izuku says over and over that he needs to train his body so he can handle OFA. That was the whole point of the 10 month training, he needed to have a stronger body to handle OFA's power, if not then the power would've killed him.
When Izuku uses 8% for the first time, he says that he's able to use it because of how much he trained his body, he hadn't realized how much stronger he had gotten.
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TheRustyOne brings up a good point.
Izuku was only able to use 8% safely because he raised his base stats through training.
If using 8% would boost his durability anyway to be able to handle 8% then he wouldn't have been restricted to just 5% early on.
Izuku was only able to use 8% safely because he raised his base stats through training.
If using 8% would boost his durability anyway to be able to handle 8% then he wouldn't have been restricted to just 5% early on.
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The main evidence of OFA increasing durability is it doing exactly that for All Might. Meaning either Izuku's OFA is fundamentally different mechanically than All Might's or that OFA doesn't increase durability for All Might either and he physically trained his body to withstand mountain level attacks.
Now I ask you, if One For All was so different for Izuku that it didn't even affect something as important as durability despite doing so for All Might, don't you think that would have been stated? Also, if something is stated to be "The ultimate physical ability" would you really find it strange if you don't get another statement saying "this ability increases durability"
I'm not arguing that having a strong body isn't needed but that's not the same as saying that the unamped durability of All Might perfectly matched the power output the quirk gave him. Especially when that means Izuku would have to gain mountain level durability completely through his own training, and this ain't One Punch Man, you cannot outdo some of the most potent quirks to exist through just hardwork and determination,
Even a pro hero known for his durabilty like FatGum doesn't reach 8-B durability, the difference between 8-B and 7-A is around 1 millio times. Does anyone really think it makes sense in the context of My Hero Academia for a person to do nothing other than train his body and surpass a durability based quirk by this wide a margin?
Now I ask you, if One For All was so different for Izuku that it didn't even affect something as important as durability despite doing so for All Might, don't you think that would have been stated? Also, if something is stated to be "The ultimate physical ability" would you really find it strange if you don't get another statement saying "this ability increases durability"
I'm not arguing that having a strong body isn't needed but that's not the same as saying that the unamped durability of All Might perfectly matched the power output the quirk gave him. Especially when that means Izuku would have to gain mountain level durability completely through his own training, and this ain't One Punch Man, you cannot outdo some of the most potent quirks to exist through just hardwork and determination,
Even a pro hero known for his durabilty like FatGum doesn't reach 8-B durability, the difference between 8-B and 7-A is around 1 millio times. Does anyone really think it makes sense in the context of My Hero Academia for a person to do nothing other than train his body and surpass a durability based quirk by this wide a margin?
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The main problem with that assumption is that, somehow, All Might had trained his body to reach 7-A Dura in a world where almost everyone else is 8-B, and anyone that isn't (only one besides AFO I can think of would probably be that massive guy Gran Torino finds, an ex ally of AFO) is there because of quirks.
His master would have also had to reach such a level, or close, because OFA wasn't gonna jump from 8-B to 7-A in one generation. So impossible levels of endurance not even other characters that train could reach. Not to mention Izuku having to save depowered All Might from a falling rock that wouldn't tickle him if that was his normal durability.
His master would have also had to reach such a level, or close, because OFA wasn't gonna jump from 8-B to 7-A in one generation. So impossible levels of endurance not even other characters that train could reach. Not to mention Izuku having to save depowered All Might from a falling rock that wouldn't tickle him if that was his normal durability.
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I mean, All Might has a buff form that Izuku doesn't have, All Might doesn't break his bones while going at 100% and it's constantly stated that All Might could handle OFA since the beginning while Izuku still can't. The quirk is the same, but the users are VERY different, hence why the differences between them. Izuku hasn't shown the ability to amplify his durability with OFA, and we can't just say "it works with All Might so it also works with Izuku", otherwise we would have to assume other stuff like Izuku being able to buff himself or not broking his bones while using his full power, something clearly contradicted by the story.
We're cherry picking a single ability from All Might and giving it to Izuku while there are other abilities that All Might has that Izuku clearly doesn't.
We're cherry picking a single ability from All Might and giving it to Izuku while there are other abilities that All Might has that Izuku clearly doesn't.
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A quirk whose main function is to increase the physical capabilities of its user not giving a durability boost is simply not comparable to it not giving a cool transformation. And about the breaking bones? Izuku doesn't break his bones when using a safe percentage of OFA, All Might also doesn't break his bones when using a safe percentage of ofa which for him happens to be 100%, there's no difference.
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OFA damaging him from the inside is not the same as him not raising his durability. And again, a broken arm that needed a good few repeats before lasting, permanent damage was left is not what would happen if a 8-B swung his arm with 7-A force. And triforce, again, All Might merely replicates how he looked before his wound by doing, as he says, "the same thing people do when they inflate their chest by inhaling", in essence at least. The buff form is cosmetic, it doesn't make any real difference.
Or are you gonna tell me every single other user couldn't change their durability as well? All Might nor Gran Torino make out anything different between his OFA and All Might's, besides the fact All Might could use it very well from the start. It's your cherry picking versus ignoring a lot of context and stuff that doesn't make sense.
Or are you gonna tell me every single other user couldn't change their durability as well? All Might nor Gran Torino make out anything different between his OFA and All Might's, besides the fact All Might could use it very well from the start. It's your cherry picking versus ignoring a lot of context and stuff that doesn't make sense.
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@LSir I agree with you for the most part but, the reason izuku didn't recieve permanent damage is because of Recovery Girl. I mean look at those arms, those aren't getting better under normal circumstances at all
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Isn't that just an argument from incredulity? Just because you can't believe in something, that doesn't mean it's impossible for it to happen.
Endeavor has 8-B dura and even Best Jeanist can survive a attack that would've kill Gang Orca. None of their quirks increase their dura, yet both of them are more durable than Fatgum.
Prime Gran Torino could match a young All Might who can handle 100%, and his quirk is propelling himself using the air he breaths in from the soles of his feet.
Honesty, it seems like the problem is more about All Might's tier than anything else. I'm really not that invested in this topic since if OFA does or doesn't increase dura, I'm sure the story will explain it in the future.
If you all agree with OFA increasing durability, then do what you must. I'm just not in the mood to argue about this anymore.
Endeavor has 8-B dura and even Best Jeanist can survive a attack that would've kill Gang Orca. None of their quirks increase their dura, yet both of them are more durable than Fatgum.
Prime Gran Torino could match a young All Might who can handle 100%, and his quirk is propelling himself using the air he breaths in from the soles of his feet.
Honesty, it seems like the problem is more about All Might's tier than anything else. I'm really not that invested in this topic since if OFA does or doesn't increase dura, I'm sure the story will explain it in the future.
If you all agree with OFA increasing durability, then do what you must. I'm just not in the mood to argue about this anymore.
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It isn't just not being able to believe in something, narrative wise it doesn't add up if hardwork was enough to put your physical ability on par with the absolute top tiers of the verse. All Might outright states that someone without a quirk becoming a hero is an impossibility to him and it routinely dabbles into the themes of Quirks and how they determine what you can achieve in the society.
You can point out that some characters have reached a respectable level of power through pure training, but taking it to the extreme and suggesting that training alone putting you on par with the absolute strongest level of power introduced in the verse so far is a reasonable occurrence, i cannot agree with at all.
You may have point about Endeavor and Best Jeanist. But then again, the the difference in durability isn't really on the same scale at all with endeavor and Best Jeanist, Honestly, if he has a power that should logically not do anything about his durability and he just has one feat of surviving something far beyond what the more durability oriented characters could and from one of the two strongest characters no less, maybe, just maybe that feat isn't really that legit.
You can point out that some characters have reached a respectable level of power through pure training, but taking it to the extreme and suggesting that training alone putting you on par with the absolute strongest level of power introduced in the verse so far is a reasonable occurrence, i cannot agree with at all.
You may have point about Endeavor and Best Jeanist. But then again, the the difference in durability isn't really on the same scale at all with endeavor and Best Jeanist, Honestly, if he has a power that should logically not do anything about his durability and he just has one feat of surviving something far beyond what the more durability oriented characters could and from one of the two strongest characters no less, maybe, just maybe that feat isn't really that legit.
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I've always had a problem with that, Mirio is able to train himself to be stronger than 8%. His Quirk isn't power enhancement yet look at him, people who don't have super strength can be stronger than people who do.
He can knock out 8% Izuku and a harden Kirishima with one gut punch.
Heck, Kirishima can hurt Tetsutetsu who's just as durable as him. Kirishima's quirk is just hardening yet he can throw a punch hard enough to hurt people just as durable as him.
Honestly the whole Quirkless people can't be heroes seems weird. Aizawa is basically quirkless against mutant type quirks, yet he can send a man with four arms flying in one punch.
He can knock out 8% Izuku and a harden Kirishima with one gut punch.
Heck, Kirishima can hurt Tetsutetsu who's just as durable as him. Kirishima's quirk is just hardening yet he can throw a punch hard enough to hurt people just as durable as him.
Honestly the whole Quirkless people can't be heroes seems weird. Aizawa is basically quirkless against mutant type quirks, yet he can send a man with four arms flying in one punch.
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I am not saying "Quirkless people can only be weak" I'm saying MHA just isn't big enough on the whole physical training letting you break all limits idea to justify someone reaching All Might level without a Quirk
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That's not what I was saying, I just wanted to point out that a quirkless person can't be a hero was always weird to me. I wasn't implying anything more than that, sorry if I didn't express that properly.
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@Andy Remember that Recovery girl, unless I forgot something, only accelerates your natural ability to regenerate. Meaning Deku always inflicted as much damage as he normally could regenerate on his arm, given time.
So it still makes no sense he's hitting dozens or hundreds of thousands of times harder, but still not dealing enough damage that his arm or legs or fingers are unable to heal, or even left with any significant permanent effects.
So it still makes no sense he's hitting dozens or hundreds of thousands of times harder, but still not dealing enough damage that his arm or legs or fingers are unable to heal, or even left with any significant permanent effects.
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After rereading some chapters I disagree with all of this.
Izuku's body does hurt when he uses 20%, but this doesn't prove that his injures come from the energy flowing through his body. Izuku states that 20% is the highest he can go without breaking his bones, that means if he uses anything higher his bones will break, correct?
Yet later, we see Izuku activating 100% Full Cowling by accident and yes, he drops down in pain, but not a single broken bone is mentioned or even implied. Izuku just states that it feels like his body is being pull apart from the inside.
Izuku's bones should've instantly broken if the damage of using OFA came from the inside, yet what happens is his body slowly begins to tear with a ripping sound effect even in the panel.
Also, all of these moments of Izuku being hurt from the inside by OFA only comes from when he's using Full Cowling 20% or 100%. He's spreading 20% or 100% across his entire body. But when he actually uses 20% on his fingers or a 100% smash, he doesn't feel any pain until after he fires off an attack.
This means that while using high levels of OFA with Full Cowling does hurt Izuku from the inside, the damage isn't comparable to when he throws a punch, aka the recoil of his attack. In fact, there are multiple statements of OFA damaging Izuku via recoil.
Here, Izuku tells Bakugou that he can't handle the blowback of his own Quirk.
Here, All Might warns Izuku about the kickback of using OFA.
Here, Izuku mentions feeling no kickback when he punched Noumu.
Three statements from Izuku and All Might that the damage he receives, comes from the kickback of using OFA and not the energy flowing through him.
Further proof, Izuku during the fight with Stain goes above 5% and fractured his arm. The thing is, Izuku charges up his punch, but his arm doesn't break until after he punches Stai.
More proof, in chapter 101, Izuku ends up getting bracers for his arms to reduce the stress on his ligaments when using OFA. If the damage came from the energy flowing through his body, then these bracers would be pointless. This also holds true for the Full Gauntlet given to Izuku by Melissa in the MHA movie.
Honestly, if the damage Izuku received from using OFA came from the energy going through his arm, his bones would break before he could even throw a punch.
Izuku's body does hurt when he uses 20%, but this doesn't prove that his injures come from the energy flowing through his body. Izuku states that 20% is the highest he can go without breaking his bones, that means if he uses anything higher his bones will break, correct?
Yet later, we see Izuku activating 100% Full Cowling by accident and yes, he drops down in pain, but not a single broken bone is mentioned or even implied. Izuku just states that it feels like his body is being pull apart from the inside.
Izuku's bones should've instantly broken if the damage of using OFA came from the inside, yet what happens is his body slowly begins to tear with a ripping sound effect even in the panel.
Also, all of these moments of Izuku being hurt from the inside by OFA only comes from when he's using Full Cowling 20% or 100%. He's spreading 20% or 100% across his entire body. But when he actually uses 20% on his fingers or a 100% smash, he doesn't feel any pain until after he fires off an attack.
This means that while using high levels of OFA with Full Cowling does hurt Izuku from the inside, the damage isn't comparable to when he throws a punch, aka the recoil of his attack. In fact, there are multiple statements of OFA damaging Izuku via recoil.
Here, Izuku tells Bakugou that he can't handle the blowback of his own Quirk.
Here, All Might warns Izuku about the kickback of using OFA.
Here, Izuku mentions feeling no kickback when he punched Noumu.
Three statements from Izuku and All Might that the damage he receives, comes from the kickback of using OFA and not the energy flowing through him.
Further proof, Izuku during the fight with Stain goes above 5% and fractured his arm. The thing is, Izuku charges up his punch, but his arm doesn't break until after he punches Stai.
More proof, in chapter 101, Izuku ends up getting bracers for his arms to reduce the stress on his ligaments when using OFA. If the damage came from the energy flowing through his body, then these bracers would be pointless. This also holds true for the Full Gauntlet given to Izuku by Melissa in the MHA movie.
Honestly, if the damage Izuku received from using OFA came from the energy going through his arm, his bones would break before he could even throw a punch.
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TheRustyOne does raise some excellent points. I'm switching my position from neutral to be with TheRustyOne.
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>Izuku's body does hurt...through his body
If his body is being damaged while he isn't making any movement with the cause being ofa, then the damage is very likely coming from the energy flowing through his body due to ofa
>Yet later...from the inside
I don't think that's full cowling, just 100% used with the legs. More importantly we don't see the damage because all of it was reversed by Eri. Are you forgetting about that?
>Also, all of...an attack
The only difference between full cowl and single limb/finger attacks is that one is a localized use of OFA while the other isn't. If OFA harms him from the inside during a full cowl it will harm him from the inside during a localized usage as well
>This means...punched Nomu
It was stated that every time 100% is used the damage pattern resembles firecrackers going off inside his hand. If it was really the physical blowback then how do you explain this away?
Also this statement was made by a doctor explaining a medical diagnosis of Izuku's injury to him, I wouldn't ignore it in favour of some statements that simply included "blowback" or "kickback" as word choices when the focus of those statements wasn't even on the nature of the damage Izuku takes but just the fact that he takes damage when using ofa.
>Further proof...punches stain
I will revisit the fight a little later. Don't have anything to comment right now
>More proof...be pointless
They would be pointless if he was getting bracers just to spam the more dangerous outputs of OFA which I'm pretty sure wasn't the case. Izuku at this point had permanently damaged and slightly disfigured arms, I'm not sure why using a support item that reduces stress on his arms doesn't make sense in this scenario.
>This also...MHA movie
I haven't watched it so can't comment. Sorry
>Honestly....a punch
The period where he throws a punch could just be where the output actually peaks to 100%. He has visual indications of energy running through his body when about to use 100%, but, he also has initially had them when using safer percentages of OFA against Todoroki iirc
Another thing, the metaphor for using 100% that Izuku gave was "heating an egg in a microwave till it explodes". This implies he doesn't just start at the critical threshold of his powers when preparing an attack. It is initially manageable but eventually culminates into the "explosion" that leaves his arms or legs or fingers mangled.
If his body is being damaged while he isn't making any movement with the cause being ofa, then the damage is very likely coming from the energy flowing through his body due to ofa
>Yet later...from the inside
I don't think that's full cowling, just 100% used with the legs. More importantly we don't see the damage because all of it was reversed by Eri. Are you forgetting about that?
>Also, all of...an attack
The only difference between full cowl and single limb/finger attacks is that one is a localized use of OFA while the other isn't. If OFA harms him from the inside during a full cowl it will harm him from the inside during a localized usage as well
>This means...punched Nomu
It was stated that every time 100% is used the damage pattern resembles firecrackers going off inside his hand. If it was really the physical blowback then how do you explain this away?
Also this statement was made by a doctor explaining a medical diagnosis of Izuku's injury to him, I wouldn't ignore it in favour of some statements that simply included "blowback" or "kickback" as word choices when the focus of those statements wasn't even on the nature of the damage Izuku takes but just the fact that he takes damage when using ofa.
>Further proof...punches stain
I will revisit the fight a little later. Don't have anything to comment right now
>More proof...be pointless
They would be pointless if he was getting bracers just to spam the more dangerous outputs of OFA which I'm pretty sure wasn't the case. Izuku at this point had permanently damaged and slightly disfigured arms, I'm not sure why using a support item that reduces stress on his arms doesn't make sense in this scenario.
>This also...MHA movie
I haven't watched it so can't comment. Sorry
>Honestly....a punch
The period where he throws a punch could just be where the output actually peaks to 100%. He has visual indications of energy running through his body when about to use 100%, but, he also has initially had them when using safer percentages of OFA against Todoroki iirc
Another thing, the metaphor for using 100% that Izuku gave was "heating an egg in a microwave till it explodes". This implies he doesn't just start at the critical threshold of his powers when preparing an attack. It is initially manageable but eventually culminates into the "explosion" that leaves his arms or legs or fingers mangled.
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Eri did reverse the damage, but his bones should've broke the instant he let go of her. Yet Izuku lies down in pain without a single broken bone. If his bones broke, we would've at least gotten a cracking sound effect, but no, all we had was ripping and creaking.
Also it is Full Cowling 100%, Izuku compares this moment to the time he first used Full Cowling 8% on Bakugou by accident.
OFA always starts at 100%, he needs to dial it back down to a level he can manage. That's how it works, that's why he made Full Cowling in the first place. Izuku originally had to dial the power down to 5% each time he used OFA, but this slowed him down.
There are three statements that come from the actual users of OFA, that state the kickback is what damages him. That automatically shuts down this whole thing. Izuku's never mention feeling pain while using 20% or 100% on a single limb, he only mentions the pain when he's using Full Cowling 20% or 100%.
In the MHA Movie, Melissa gives Izuku the Full Gauntlet. This let's Izuku use 100% without hurting himself since the gauntlet is design to handle three punches from All Might.
Izuku uses 30% and his arm is fine, when he uses 100% he even says there's no pain at all. The Full Gauntlet protects him from the recoil of OFA. The Doctor's statement means nothing, it's just a fancy way of saying he damaged his arms and ligaments really bad. It doesn't literally mean that the energy of OFA's is destroying his body.
Also it is Full Cowling 100%, Izuku compares this moment to the time he first used Full Cowling 8% on Bakugou by accident.
OFA always starts at 100%, he needs to dial it back down to a level he can manage. That's how it works, that's why he made Full Cowling in the first place. Izuku originally had to dial the power down to 5% each time he used OFA, but this slowed him down.
There are three statements that come from the actual users of OFA, that state the kickback is what damages him. That automatically shuts down this whole thing. Izuku's never mention feeling pain while using 20% or 100% on a single limb, he only mentions the pain when he's using Full Cowling 20% or 100%.
In the MHA Movie, Melissa gives Izuku the Full Gauntlet. This let's Izuku use 100% without hurting himself since the gauntlet is design to handle three punches from All Might.
Izuku uses 30% and his arm is fine, when he uses 100% he even says there's no pain at all. The Full Gauntlet protects him from the recoil of OFA. The Doctor's statement means nothing, it's just a fancy way of saying he damaged his arms and ligaments really bad. It doesn't literally mean that the energy of OFA's is destroying his body.
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Also, the Microwave analogy is what Izuku uses to dial back OFA's power. He doesn't say his body is breaking like an egg in a microwave.
He imagines the egg not breaking to control his power. (Though now it's taiyaki)
Edit: During the fight with Todoroki. Izuku activates OFA on his arm and leg for the final attack. His leg is fine as he turns it o, but the moment he jumps we have a visual and sound effect cue of his leg breaking.
I'm going to sleep for now.
He imagines the egg not breaking to control his power. (Though now it's taiyaki)
Edit: During the fight with Todoroki. Izuku activates OFA on his arm and leg for the final attack. His leg is fine as he turns it o, but the moment he jumps we have a visual and sound effect cue of his leg breaking.
I'm going to sleep for now.
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>Eri did...creaking
Did his arms and legs break when he went to town on Chisaki in 100% and let go of Eri? No the damage he would have taken from thatdidn't even carry over when he was out 100% full cowl. Even if the damage came from blowback it still would be in the same situation as if the damage came from within because he actually punched and kicked something in 100% without his hands and legs breaking when he separated from Eri.
So how does this disprove my interpretation but not yours?
>OFA always....slowed him down
The microwave metaphor is a mental image Izuku was asked to come up with to accurately represent how OFA usage feels like, it isn't just a random metaphor about what Izuku has to do to control his power, it gives a rough idea of how OFA functions as well
The metaphor implies the process of one for all is "power is turned on>nothing is damaged instantaneously>soon enough the object is destroyed". You're saying the 100% will destroy the arm at the exact moment when it is switched on and there will be no period between Izuku activating his power and landing the punch where his arm will remain intanct but I don't think that's true going by what the metaphor implies
His arm remaining intact during a windup to a 100% attack isn't proof of the damage coming from the impact of his fist with an object
>There are three...shuts down the whole thing
It would if there wasn't a statement indicating the damage as being something other than recoil in a scene that was actually focused on describing the nature of damage Izuku takes with One For All
None of your statements relate to how ofa damages Izuku's body, just that it does and usage of the words "kickback", "blowback" are hardly a important part of any three of the statements. Now if we didn't have contradictory evidence to Izuku's injuries being from reactionary forces all these statements would be completely fine. But we do, we do from a statement that is actually trying to explain the nature of the damage accurately from a source that has all the reasons to be trusted about,
When it comes to the question "How is the body damaged through ofa?" the three statements do not trump the doctor's statement, not individually not all together. And as for coming from actual users, it means nothing. A doctor examined a injury he came across and explained what it was like to the patient in an easy to understand fashion, there's no reason for statement to be less reliable just because he wasn't a user of one for all
>The doctor's statement...his body
It's a way of saying the damage is coming from inside his body, it clues you in to where the energy destroying the limbs originates from and in what manner the limb was destroyed. It disproves the damage being kickback if nothing else. So whether it proves my conclusion or not it still shows that one of the assumptions used to disprove ofa enhancing durability is wrong.
Did his arms and legs break when he went to town on Chisaki in 100% and let go of Eri? No the damage he would have taken from thatdidn't even carry over when he was out 100% full cowl. Even if the damage came from blowback it still would be in the same situation as if the damage came from within because he actually punched and kicked something in 100% without his hands and legs breaking when he separated from Eri.
So how does this disprove my interpretation but not yours?
>OFA always....slowed him down
The microwave metaphor is a mental image Izuku was asked to come up with to accurately represent how OFA usage feels like, it isn't just a random metaphor about what Izuku has to do to control his power, it gives a rough idea of how OFA functions as well
The metaphor implies the process of one for all is "power is turned on>nothing is damaged instantaneously>soon enough the object is destroyed". You're saying the 100% will destroy the arm at the exact moment when it is switched on and there will be no period between Izuku activating his power and landing the punch where his arm will remain intanct but I don't think that's true going by what the metaphor implies
His arm remaining intact during a windup to a 100% attack isn't proof of the damage coming from the impact of his fist with an object
>There are three...shuts down the whole thing
It would if there wasn't a statement indicating the damage as being something other than recoil in a scene that was actually focused on describing the nature of damage Izuku takes with One For All
None of your statements relate to how ofa damages Izuku's body, just that it does and usage of the words "kickback", "blowback" are hardly a important part of any three of the statements. Now if we didn't have contradictory evidence to Izuku's injuries being from reactionary forces all these statements would be completely fine. But we do, we do from a statement that is actually trying to explain the nature of the damage accurately from a source that has all the reasons to be trusted about,
When it comes to the question "How is the body damaged through ofa?" the three statements do not trump the doctor's statement, not individually not all together. And as for coming from actual users, it means nothing. A doctor examined a injury he came across and explained what it was like to the patient in an easy to understand fashion, there's no reason for statement to be less reliable just because he wasn't a user of one for all
>The doctor's statement...his body
It's a way of saying the damage is coming from inside his body, it clues you in to where the energy destroying the limbs originates from and in what manner the limb was destroyed. It disproves the damage being kickback if nothing else. So whether it proves my conclusion or not it still shows that one of the assumptions used to disprove ofa enhancing durability is wrong.
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You clearly don't understand what I'm saying with Eri. After Izuku kicks Chisaki he puts Eri dow, in that moment he's in Full Cowling 100% and isn't touching Eri, every bone in his body should break according to your theory. But they don't, instead he fall down and states his body is being ripped apart from the inside.
The pain Izuku feels at 20% is his body grating his against itself. This would be a perfect time to mention the energy of 20% hurts him, but that's not what he says here.
The metaphor is about lowering the watts to an amount of energy the egg can take, or in this case the power his arm can handle. Nothing about that proves either of our points, it's just a way to get Izuku to lower OFA's power.
Your doctor statement doesn't hold anymore weight than a single one of these statements. You think it does but you haven't proven to me why his statement is more valid. You just keep saying it is because of reasons, you haven't provided a proper reason.
These are my main points. Three statements that of OFA's kickback is being what injures him. The Bakugou statement is him trying to explain why he doesn't use his quirk. He could've easily said something like, his body can't handle the power of his quirk, instead he refers to it as the blowback.
The All Might one is even more telling. All Might is literally telling him that the kickback of using OFA is going to be dangerous, this is him warning him about the kickback he'll receive.
Izuku to All Might one, if the damage didn't come from kickback, this would've been the perfect time to correct any doubts. But that doesn't happen, instead All Might wonders why Izuku didn't feel any kickback.
The arm bracers are meant to protect Izuku's arms while he's using 8%. Izuku stated himself that he'll only punch at 5% during his fight with Bakugou. There's no point in the arm bracers if OFA's damage comes from the inside and increases his durability.
Melissa's Full Gauntlet is the biggest proof of all, a piece of equipment that wraps around Izuku arm and protect it from the recoil of his own attack, it's a big part of the movie since it's how Horikoshi is able to have Izuku fight alongside All Might.
If Horikoshi intended to have OFA hurt Izuku via the energy going through his arm, then the Full Gauntlet would've never had made it into the movie since he worked with the staff very closely.
The pain Izuku feels at 20% is his body grating his against itself. This would be a perfect time to mention the energy of 20% hurts him, but that's not what he says here.
The metaphor is about lowering the watts to an amount of energy the egg can take, or in this case the power his arm can handle. Nothing about that proves either of our points, it's just a way to get Izuku to lower OFA's power.
Your doctor statement doesn't hold anymore weight than a single one of these statements. You think it does but you haven't proven to me why his statement is more valid. You just keep saying it is because of reasons, you haven't provided a proper reason.
These are my main points. Three statements that of OFA's kickback is being what injures him. The Bakugou statement is him trying to explain why he doesn't use his quirk. He could've easily said something like, his body can't handle the power of his quirk, instead he refers to it as the blowback.
The All Might one is even more telling. All Might is literally telling him that the kickback of using OFA is going to be dangerous, this is him warning him about the kickback he'll receive.
Izuku to All Might one, if the damage didn't come from kickback, this would've been the perfect time to correct any doubts. But that doesn't happen, instead All Might wonders why Izuku didn't feel any kickback.
The arm bracers are meant to protect Izuku's arms while he's using 8%. Izuku stated himself that he'll only punch at 5% during his fight with Bakugou. There's no point in the arm bracers if OFA's damage comes from the inside and increases his durability.
Melissa's Full Gauntlet is the biggest proof of all, a piece of equipment that wraps around Izuku arm and protect it from the recoil of his own attack, it's a big part of the movie since it's how Horikoshi is able to have Izuku fight alongside All Might.
If Horikoshi intended to have OFA hurt Izuku via the energy going through his arm, then the Full Gauntlet would've never had made it into the movie since he worked with the staff very closely.
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Izuku isn't in 100% full cowl in that scene, he only enters that mode after Chisaki fully emerges from the ground and Izuku ties Eri to himeslf. Izuku doesn't have 100% active in that picture he only used it once a bit earlier when he released that shockwave underground.
I'll address the rest of the stuff later when I have time.
I'll address the rest of the stuff later when I have time.
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Then what excatly causes Izuku to fall to the floor in pain when he drops Eri? Also sorry if I'm not making much sense, I just woke up and it seems like I'm sick.
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I think it's an aftereffect of Eri's quirk. I remember something similar happening after he was done beating up Chisaki but I may be mistaken.
Plus Izuku has a distinct appearance in 100% full cowl. Here's what he looks like, hair spiked up and in super saiyan fashion with energy gathering around his eyes to give the appearance of a mask. He clearly was not in 100% full cowl in that scan.
Plus Izuku has a distinct appearance in 100% full cowl. Here's what he looks like, hair spiked up and in super saiyan fashion with energy gathering around his eyes to give the appearance of a mask. He clearly was not in 100% full cowl in that scan.
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It can't be, he wasn't touching Eri when that happened.
When he had the freakout after the battle, he was still in contact with her.
Edit: The only other thing I can think of is that 100% was still in his legs, but that doesn't make sense either. He states his body is being ripped apart, not his legs.
And it only happens after dropping Eri.
When he had the freakout after the battle, he was still in contact with her.
Edit: The only other thing I can think of is that 100% was still in his legs, but that doesn't make sense either. He states his body is being ripped apart, not his legs.
And it only happens after dropping Eri.
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Thats what I mean by after effect. Either way, I may be wrong about certain things here but I'm 100% (Ha) confident that he wasn't in 100% full cowl here, because it was only after this scene that 100% full cowl is even introduced to us.
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There are none yet, we're still discussing it.
Andy is purposing that Izuku durability increases while using OFA. That the damage he suffers doesn't come from recoil, but the energy of OFA flowing through his body.
I disagree with Andy and provide an explanation on why above. My biggest points being three statements that come from Izuku and All Might, that he can't handle the kickback of OFA.
Along with the Full Gauntlet from the movie and Izuku's arm bracers, which were made to protect him from the kickback of using 100% or 8% of OFA respectively.
My points haven't been debunked, though Andy hasn't posted in awhile.
Andy is purposing that Izuku durability increases while using OFA. That the damage he suffers doesn't come from recoil, but the energy of OFA flowing through his body.
I disagree with Andy and provide an explanation on why above. My biggest points being three statements that come from Izuku and All Might, that he can't handle the kickback of OFA.
Along with the Full Gauntlet from the movie and Izuku's arm bracers, which were made to protect him from the kickback of using 100% or 8% of OFA respectively.
My points haven't been debunked, though Andy hasn't posted in awhile.
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Sorry that I lost interest in this for a while, I was having trouble finding the motivation to debate here.
Anyway, there are a couple of points I should be addressing right now
Izuku's Microwave Analogy
To make the context clear about why we are discussing this, it was claimed that because Izuku can charge up a 100% punch without breaking his arm the damage couldn't be coming from the inside. This statement would be true if between the conscious activation of 100% and the aftermath of 100% there is zero delay. And if there isn't zero delay? Then there will be the possibility of Izuku finishing a punch in the gap that he has between "switching on OFA" and being mutilated which would explain the wind up to 100% attacks not damaging Izuku
This is where the Microwave analogy comes in. In my opinion, Izuku comparing 100% usage to an egg being microwaved is about how his body was being affected physically by OFA and therefore could clue us into which interpretation is more accurate, but according to Rusty it's just a metaphor for controlling power output.
here's the scene where Izuku comes up with the metaphor and it can be seen clearly that Izuku was asked to remember the sensation of using OFA and that's what he attempted to describe through visual imagery. It's not just a random metaphor that is supposed to help with power regulation, it is based directly on how Izuku was physically affected by 100% and using it as a reference you can interpret the process of 100% activation as "power is turned on>nothing bad happens initially>egg/hand explodes"
Is this concrete proof of a delay existing? No, the metaphor never directly confirms this. But it's likely and that's all that's needed here. If an observation leads to multiple different conclusions which are equally likely and not all of them contradict a hypothesis, then that observation isn't good evidence against that hypothesis. The observation of Izuku charging up a 100% attack without immediately breaking his bones isn't good evidence against the damage coming from inside
Three Statements
There were three statements of ofa damage being called "kickback", "blowback" or whatever. And there was one statement of ofa damage being described by a doctor to be "similar to firecrackers going off inside the arm".
Three against one should mean the doctor statement is what's incorrect shouldn't it? No, because it is only the doctor's statement that in context is about clarifying what the damage caused by 100% is like, the rest of them are focused on something else.
The first statement is "I cannot freely use my power and this is my explanation", if Izuku was wrong about the damage being some kind of blowback, it would mean nothing, because the statement was only about Izuku explaining his actions to Bakugou who had mistaken his intentions
The second statement is "You have the power but here's why you should be careful with it". In this case "prepare for some real kickback" is a very minor part of the statement which was more focused on explaining why Izuku isn't ready to use OFA, and likely isn't even supposed to be literal. Let's say a character makes this statement "Keep yourself steady when using this gun, unless you want to get blasted out of oribit" and that character is an expert user of that gun. Would you say the last part of his statement should be taken as a legitimate description of the gun's capability? This situation is similar.
The third statement is "I was able to control my power once and here's when it happened", once again, it is irrelevant if he specifically used the word "kickback" or not, the point of the statement is simply that was able to regulate his power once.
The doctor statement is "I looked at scans of your arms and this is the manner in which they were damaged ". In this case what the statement implies about the nature of Izuku's injuries matters, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT TO BEGIN WITH. If the injuries weren't internal then that means the doctor lied to a patient about what his injuries were or somehow failed to read what the scans showed him and gave a wrong analysis. There is substantially more reason for the doctor's statement to be an accurate description of Izuku's injuries than any of the three statements that have been presented.
Here's the thing, a statement simply using a certain word isn't proof of anything, even if they come from reliable sources. You have to take into account what context they were originally made i, and what context you're trying to use them in, how reliable they are compared to other statements depend heavily on these two factors.
Anyway, I am still yet to see a truly convincing evidence of Izuku's durability being unboosted . Maybe the movie gauntlet is one, but unfortunately I didn't watch the movies so someone other than me would have to be the judge of it.(Someone else feel free to help actually, I've been running way low on energy these recent days)
Anyway, there are a couple of points I should be addressing right now
Izuku's Microwave Analogy
To make the context clear about why we are discussing this, it was claimed that because Izuku can charge up a 100% punch without breaking his arm the damage couldn't be coming from the inside. This statement would be true if between the conscious activation of 100% and the aftermath of 100% there is zero delay. And if there isn't zero delay? Then there will be the possibility of Izuku finishing a punch in the gap that he has between "switching on OFA" and being mutilated which would explain the wind up to 100% attacks not damaging Izuku
This is where the Microwave analogy comes in. In my opinion, Izuku comparing 100% usage to an egg being microwaved is about how his body was being affected physically by OFA and therefore could clue us into which interpretation is more accurate, but according to Rusty it's just a metaphor for controlling power output.
here's the scene where Izuku comes up with the metaphor and it can be seen clearly that Izuku was asked to remember the sensation of using OFA and that's what he attempted to describe through visual imagery. It's not just a random metaphor that is supposed to help with power regulation, it is based directly on how Izuku was physically affected by 100% and using it as a reference you can interpret the process of 100% activation as "power is turned on>nothing bad happens initially>egg/hand explodes"
Is this concrete proof of a delay existing? No, the metaphor never directly confirms this. But it's likely and that's all that's needed here. If an observation leads to multiple different conclusions which are equally likely and not all of them contradict a hypothesis, then that observation isn't good evidence against that hypothesis. The observation of Izuku charging up a 100% attack without immediately breaking his bones isn't good evidence against the damage coming from inside
Three Statements
There were three statements of ofa damage being called "kickback", "blowback" or whatever. And there was one statement of ofa damage being described by a doctor to be "similar to firecrackers going off inside the arm".
Three against one should mean the doctor statement is what's incorrect shouldn't it? No, because it is only the doctor's statement that in context is about clarifying what the damage caused by 100% is like, the rest of them are focused on something else.
The first statement is "I cannot freely use my power and this is my explanation", if Izuku was wrong about the damage being some kind of blowback, it would mean nothing, because the statement was only about Izuku explaining his actions to Bakugou who had mistaken his intentions
The second statement is "You have the power but here's why you should be careful with it". In this case "prepare for some real kickback" is a very minor part of the statement which was more focused on explaining why Izuku isn't ready to use OFA, and likely isn't even supposed to be literal. Let's say a character makes this statement "Keep yourself steady when using this gun, unless you want to get blasted out of oribit" and that character is an expert user of that gun. Would you say the last part of his statement should be taken as a legitimate description of the gun's capability? This situation is similar.
The third statement is "I was able to control my power once and here's when it happened", once again, it is irrelevant if he specifically used the word "kickback" or not, the point of the statement is simply that was able to regulate his power once.
The doctor statement is "I looked at scans of your arms and this is the manner in which they were damaged ". In this case what the statement implies about the nature of Izuku's injuries matters, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT TO BEGIN WITH. If the injuries weren't internal then that means the doctor lied to a patient about what his injuries were or somehow failed to read what the scans showed him and gave a wrong analysis. There is substantially more reason for the doctor's statement to be an accurate description of Izuku's injuries than any of the three statements that have been presented.
Here's the thing, a statement simply using a certain word isn't proof of anything, even if they come from reliable sources. You have to take into account what context they were originally made i, and what context you're trying to use them in, how reliable they are compared to other statements depend heavily on these two factors.
Anyway, I am still yet to see a truly convincing evidence of Izuku's durability being unboosted . Maybe the movie gauntlet is one, but unfortunately I didn't watch the movies so someone other than me would have to be the judge of it.(Someone else feel free to help actually, I've been running way low on energy these recent days)
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I replied now but don't know how invested I'll be in debating this further. I'll attempt to discuss any points that are made, but if I drop out of the discussion suddenly, apologies for that.
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I disagree with that, I'll explain in more detail soon.
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Note: This is not my response to what Andy said, I just noticed this and have to say it now. I'll form a proper response later on.
I have another piece of evidence towards recoil, and that is Izuku vs Shinso
Izuku gets caught in Shinso brainwashing and he needs to break out of it. Shinso's brainwashing can be broken by a small jolt, just bumping into another person can snap you out of it. In this fight he uses OFA to snap out of it, and how does it do that? By moving his finger downward, he had to let the kickback/recoil of using 100% to wake him up.
Just activating OFA 100% didn't snap him out of it, he had to move his finger in order to break out of Shinso brainwashing. "In that instant, I was just barely able to move a fingertip."
By his own words, moving his finger is what caused him to wake up, not activating OFA.
In this situation, if the damage of OFA came from the inside, then he doesn't need to move his fingers. All he has to do is turn OFA on and just let it explode when it reached 100%.
Also small thing, but Izuku's injures can't look like this if the damage came from the inside. The way his scars and wounds are drawn clearly imply recoil. The worst part of the injury comes from the point of impact, and gets less injured the further away it is. But if the damage came from the inside, then the injury should spread out evenly among the limb he used OFA.
I have another piece of evidence towards recoil, and that is Izuku vs Shinso
Izuku gets caught in Shinso brainwashing and he needs to break out of it. Shinso's brainwashing can be broken by a small jolt, just bumping into another person can snap you out of it. In this fight he uses OFA to snap out of it, and how does it do that? By moving his finger downward, he had to let the kickback/recoil of using 100% to wake him up.
Just activating OFA 100% didn't snap him out of it, he had to move his finger in order to break out of Shinso brainwashing. "In that instant, I was just barely able to move a fingertip."
By his own words, moving his finger is what caused him to wake up, not activating OFA.
In this situation, if the damage of OFA came from the inside, then he doesn't need to move his fingers. All he has to do is turn OFA on and just let it explode when it reached 100%.
Also small thing, but Izuku's injures can't look like this if the damage came from the inside. The way his scars and wounds are drawn clearly imply recoil. The worst part of the injury comes from the point of impact, and gets less injured the further away it is. But if the damage came from the inside, then the injury should spread out evenly among the limb he used OFA.
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Huh. Didn't know the manga version was drawn this way.
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Wall of Text (I promise this is my last one)
The doctor scene is pointless, it's just a fancy way of saying that he damaged his arms really bad. It doesn't literally mean that his Quirk's energy is exploding on the inside of him.
Izuku injures don't even match that description, his scars proves that's not the case. An explosion from inside his arm can't leave the rip and tears scars on his hand.
The only explanation for those scars is that his fingers almost flew off from being flicked so hard. Izuku's body should be bursting from the inside if that was the case, but none of his injuries show anything like that, his injuries are consistent with his durability not increasing.
Context doesn't matter in the way you think it does. They're literally stating that the kickback of using OFA is what hurts him. Izuku feels like he needs to explain to Bakugou why he didn't use his Quirk, the context here is that the recoil is too much for him to handle.
Your comparison with the gun in All Might's statement is a massive exaggeration. He's literally warning him about the kickback of using OFA, this statement is All Might lying to Izuku's face if OFA doesn't really work like that.
The Noumu statement is the biggest one of all. In big bold letters, Izuku says that he felt no kickback when he punched Noumu. The word kickback in this statement is huge, since he could've easily said that his body didn't break or something vauge like that. Here the context is that he didn't feel any kickback when punching Noumu and is wondering why that is.
Microwave
Your over thinking the scene. All Might is trying to get Izuku to find an image to describe using OFA. Izuku later changes the image to takoyaki, the microwave was always about regulating the power, lower the percentage to a level his body can handle.
That's another thing, if Izuku's durability increased, it would've been mentioned. Yet All Might and Izuku keep saying that he needs to train his body, make it stronger so it can handle higher levels of OFA.
When Izuku uses 8% for the first time, he says he's able to do it because of his body has gotten stronger from all of his training. Training his body to handle OFA before he received it, training his body to handle 8%. and whatever % he can handle in the future.
Also about the 20% scene, Izuku was moving there, he had juststomped on the ground. "I can hear my bones and muscles creaking! My entire body is screaming out in pain."
His leg's bones and muscles are creaking, that's once again another case of the recoil sending a wave of pain through his leg. And there's a explanation of why his entire body hurts. Izuku states here that 20% causes his body pain as it starts grating against itself. The pain doesn't come from OFA flowing through him.
Also Eri's s Quirk doesn't have an after effect, Chisaki got effected by it and he never mentioned any pain. An after effect is pure speculation, while it's clear that Izuku still had 100% on. Izuku literally states that it's the same as when he lost control against Bakugou, when he first used 8%. In that scene Izuku stood in 8% till he turned back down to 5% for the punch.
Full Cowl 100% only looks like that because of Eri's Quirk. As we see here, the energy around Izuku gets even more wild as Eri's Quirk goes berserk. Even if we say it was only his legs, his legs still should've broke when he let Eri go. As he would still have 100% in his legs, just like the time he first went 8%.
Note: I hope I don't sound aggressive, I'm not trying to be. I'm just trying to explain my points in the best of my abilities, yet it feels like we can't come to an agreement like this. I'd really like it if other people starting giving out their own opinions.
I'll come back to this thread tomorrow, when I stop feeling so anxious.
The doctor scene is pointless, it's just a fancy way of saying that he damaged his arms really bad. It doesn't literally mean that his Quirk's energy is exploding on the inside of him.
Izuku injures don't even match that description, his scars proves that's not the case. An explosion from inside his arm can't leave the rip and tears scars on his hand.
The only explanation for those scars is that his fingers almost flew off from being flicked so hard. Izuku's body should be bursting from the inside if that was the case, but none of his injuries show anything like that, his injuries are consistent with his durability not increasing.
Context doesn't matter in the way you think it does. They're literally stating that the kickback of using OFA is what hurts him. Izuku feels like he needs to explain to Bakugou why he didn't use his Quirk, the context here is that the recoil is too much for him to handle.
Your comparison with the gun in All Might's statement is a massive exaggeration. He's literally warning him about the kickback of using OFA, this statement is All Might lying to Izuku's face if OFA doesn't really work like that.
The Noumu statement is the biggest one of all. In big bold letters, Izuku says that he felt no kickback when he punched Noumu. The word kickback in this statement is huge, since he could've easily said that his body didn't break or something vauge like that. Here the context is that he didn't feel any kickback when punching Noumu and is wondering why that is.
Microwave
Your over thinking the scene. All Might is trying to get Izuku to find an image to describe using OFA. Izuku later changes the image to takoyaki, the microwave was always about regulating the power, lower the percentage to a level his body can handle.
That's another thing, if Izuku's durability increased, it would've been mentioned. Yet All Might and Izuku keep saying that he needs to train his body, make it stronger so it can handle higher levels of OFA.
When Izuku uses 8% for the first time, he says he's able to do it because of his body has gotten stronger from all of his training. Training his body to handle OFA before he received it, training his body to handle 8%. and whatever % he can handle in the future.
Also about the 20% scene, Izuku was moving there, he had juststomped on the ground. "I can hear my bones and muscles creaking! My entire body is screaming out in pain."
His leg's bones and muscles are creaking, that's once again another case of the recoil sending a wave of pain through his leg. And there's a explanation of why his entire body hurts. Izuku states here that 20% causes his body pain as it starts grating against itself. The pain doesn't come from OFA flowing through him.
Also Eri's s Quirk doesn't have an after effect, Chisaki got effected by it and he never mentioned any pain. An after effect is pure speculation, while it's clear that Izuku still had 100% on. Izuku literally states that it's the same as when he lost control against Bakugou, when he first used 8%. In that scene Izuku stood in 8% till he turned back down to 5% for the punch.
Full Cowl 100% only looks like that because of Eri's Quirk. As we see here, the energy around Izuku gets even more wild as Eri's Quirk goes berserk. Even if we say it was only his legs, his legs still should've broke when he let Eri go. As he would still have 100% in his legs, just like the time he first went 8%.
Note: I hope I don't sound aggressive, I'm not trying to be. I'm just trying to explain my points in the best of my abilities, yet it feels like we can't come to an agreement like this. I'd really like it if other people starting giving out their own opinions.
I'll come back to this thread tomorrow, when I stop feeling so anxious.
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