Itachi's sword upgrade

[Stryker861]

First, you didn't even quote it correctly. It doesn't say it can cut anyone, it says it can "cut down any enemy." Cut down doesn't mean cut, it basically means to defeat, kill, etc.

i was just simplifying what it said. its talking about cutting regardles. its a sword

 

[Trihexa102]

Even if it doesn’t get complete Durability Negation , It should still get Physical or Limited Dura Negation as it’s a Spiritual weapon , Made physical just like Susanoo’s, Except this has Sealing properties( of body and soul ) and being able to cut an enemy . It is by base a Spiritual weapon while also having spiritual properties That can’t be refuted.

 

[Deceived3596]

For the people who are arguing this (as in the, "cut down any enemy" text) is a hyperbolic statement, what's your reasoning for it being a hyperbolic statement?

 

[Deagonx]

i was just simplifying what it said. its talking about cutting regardles. its a sword

Changing the meaning of the sentence =/= simplifying

 

[KingogKings777]

So what's the evidence for it having Durability Negation in the first place other then it seals the body and soul in the jar thing?

 

[Deagonx]

For the people who are arguing this (as in the, "cut down any enemy" text) is a hyperbolic statement, what's your reasoning for it being a hyperbolic statement?

Because it's extremely strong wording which isn't backed up by feats.

 

[Deceived3596]

So what's the evidence for it having Durability Negation in the first place other then it seals the body and soul in the jar thing?

The evidence(s) would be the fact it's a spiritual weapon and it's stated capable of cutting down any enemy it comes across (paraphrasing), with the text itself implying that since it's a spiritual weapon, that's the reason why it's capable of cutting down any enemy. Which would be considered as Durability Negation as explained on our Durability Negation page.

 

[Stryker861]

Changing the meaning of the sentence =/= simplifying

earlier in the thread i used the exact wording. it just gets tiring repeating the same thing over and over

 

[Deagonx]

earlier in the thread i used the exact wording. it just gets tiring repeating the same thing over and over

It's one extra word

 

[Deagonx]

The evidence(s) would be the fact it's a spiritual weapon and it's stated capable of cutting down any enemy it comes across (paraphrasing), with the text itself implying that since it's a spiritual weapon, that's the reason why it's capable of cutting down any enemy

Quite a leap, frankly

 

[Stryker861]

Quite a leap, frankly

this is not a leap. it litteraly just makes sense. the databook states it can cut down any enemy in its right and the yata mirror can defend against any attack. these wepons are supposed to cover offense and defense essentially perfectly as stated multiple times

 

[Deceived3596]

Because it's extremely strong wording which isn't backed up by feats.

Well, it being backed up by feats or not doesn't disprove or prove it's hyperbolic, hyperbolic implies a level of exaggeration, you would have the onus to prove said exaggeration exists. The lacking of evidence isn't the evidence of lacking perse.

But it's arguably backed up by feats, from my knowledge, every single interaction with Itachi using the Totsuka Blade were all one shots that the characters who faced it couldn't defend against, which, if anything, would support the positive side of this debate rather than the negative side.

 

[Deceived3596]

Quite a leap, frankly

Prove it, don't just claim it.

 

[Deagonx]

Well, it being backed up by feats or not doesn't disprove or prove it's hyperbolic

Then, in your opinion, what would prove a statement is hyperbolic?

this is not a leap. it litteraly just makes sense. the databook states it can cut down any enemy in its right and the yata mirror can defend against any attack. these wepons are supposed to cover offense and defense essentially perfectly as stated multiple times

You're not addressing what I called a leap though?

But it's arguably backed up by feats, from my knowledge, every single interaction with Itachi using the Totsuka Blade were all one shots that the characters who faced it couldn't defend against, which would definitely support the positive rather than the negative side of this conversation.

This doesn't prove the NLF that it could literally cut down any enemy no matter what.

Prove it, don't just claim it

You've got it backwards. You are making a leap in logic, you need to prove your assertion with actual reasoning

 

[Deceived3596]

Then, in your opinion, what would prove a statement is hyperbolic?

Anti-feats, contradicting statements etc.

This doesn't prove the NLF that it could literally cut down any enemy no matter what.

It does when literally every single interaction with the ability were oneshots that "cut down" those enemies, we can't argue off of pure speculation concretely, so when we have multiple points of evidence which supports that notion, we would default to that notion being true unless contrary evidence was provided as that's the least assumptive claim we can make given the evidence.

You've got it backwards. You are making a leap in logic, you need to prove your assertion with actual reasoning

I'm not, you're asserting this claim is hyperbolic, i'm saying it isn't and providing evidence against that interpretation, it's up to you to disprove those pieces of evidence with counter evidence, which you are seemingly incapable of providing.

 

[Deagonx]

Anti-feats, contradicting statements etc.

So in your view, we should accept even the most ridiculous statements as literal fact, no matter how superlative, unless they're directly contradicted by something else?

Wild. It's hyperbole.

It does when literally every single interaction with the ability were oneshots that "cut down" those enemies, we can't argue off of pure speculation, so when we have multiple points of evidence which supports that notion

That's called NLF.

I'm not, you're asserting this claim is hyperbolic,

You've changed the subject. The leap in logic was your claim that the reason it could cut down any enemy was because it's a spiritual weapon, but such a conclusion isn't supported by anything.

 

[KingogKings777]

But it's arguably backed up by feats, from my knowledge, every single interaction with Itachi using the Totsuka Blade were all one shots that the characters who faced it couldn't defend against, which, if anything, would support the positive side of this debate rather than the negative side.

TBH each time they were caught off guard.

 

[Stryker861]

TBH each time they were caught off guard.

snake man was staring at itachi. nagato got damaged by itachis base susanoo anyway

 

[Deceived3596]

So in your view, we should accept even the most ridiculous statements as literal fact, no matter how superlative, unless they're directly contradicted by something else?

Wild. It's hyperbole.

Cool, so you don't have an actual argument, rather you are appealing to incredulity, if we don't have actual, logical reason to assume this statement is hyperbolic, and in-fact we have feats/statements which support than notion, then we would assume it's true. That isn't a leap in logic. That's abiding by logical deduction.

That's called NLF.

It isn't, NLF implies the ability has no limit, but the ability does have a limit, it can't work against beings which don't have spirits or aren't spiritual entities since the durability negation property is contingent on those "enemies" having souls. Which, in the case of Naruto, all "enemies" do have souls. So that wouldn't be a contradiction either.

You've changed the subject. The leap in logic was your claim that the reason it could cut down any enemy was because it's a spiritual weapon, but such a conclusion isn't supported by anything.

I'm not changing the subject, we are still talking about the Totsuka Blade's capabilities. It isn't a "leap in logical" to assume that's the reason when the page itself, alongside multiple statements in the manga supports that interpretation, just calling it a leap in logic doesn't prove or explain why it is.

 

[Trihexa102]

So in your view, we should accept even the most ridiculous statements as literal fact, no matter how superlative, unless they're directly contradicted by something else?

Wild. It's hyperbole.



That's called NLF.



You've changed the subject. The leap in logic was your claim that the reason it could cut down any enemy was because it's a spiritual weapon, but such a conclusion isn't supported by anything.

Its still a Spirit blade , which has been reiterated multiple times, which can affect souls(sucking the soul out and absorbing it) so that alone is pretty much evidence.

 

[Deagonx]

Cool, so you don't have an actual argument, rather you are appealing to incredulity, if we don't have actual, logical reason to assume this statement is hyperbolic, and in-fact we have feats/statements which support than notion, then we would assume it's true. That isn't a leap in logic. That's abiding by logical deduction.

This may come as a shock, but your personal standards for determining whether or not something is hyperbole aren't universal. I already gave my reasoning, and I reject your assertion that an antifeat must be presented to determine something is hyperbolic, because such a standard is - in my opinion - absurd. If you can convince a menagerie staff otherwise, then you can pass something like that. Although I don't anticipate it.

It isn't, NLF implies the ability has no limit, but the ability does have a limit, it can't work against beings which don't have spirits.

That wouldn't mean it isn't an NLF. Your understanding of the term is wrong.

It isn't a "leap in logical" to assume that's the reason when the page itself, alongside multiple statements in the manga supports that interpretation,

But they don't. There's no information that even implies that conclusions.

Its still a Spirit blade , which has been reiterated multiple times, which can affect souls(sucking the soul out and absorbing it) so that alone is pretty much evidence

Evidence of what?

 

[Stryker861]

This may come as a shock, but your personal standards for determining whether or not something is hyperbole aren't universal. I already gave my reasoning, and I reject your assertion that an antifeat must be presented to determine something is hyperbolic, because such a standard is - in my opinion - absurd. If you can convince a menagerie staff otherwise, then you can pass something like that. Although I don't anticipate it.

That wouldn't mean it isn't an NLF. Your understanding of the term is wrong.



But they don't. There's no information that even implies that conclusions.



Evidence of what?

just 1 actual feat as counter evidence would be nice.
also if your going to say the sword is a NLF you would also be saying the shield is also which goes against what is accepted on the site

 

[Deceived3596]

This may come as a shock, but your personal standards for determining whether or not something is hyperbole aren't universal. I already gave my reasoning, and I reject your assertion that an antifeat must be presented to determine something is hyperbolic, because such a standard is - in my opinion - absurd. If you can convince a menagerie staff otherwise, then you can pass something like that. Although I don't anticipate it.

My "personal standards" are based around logical deduction, which is universal, the onus is on you to prove in a logical manner why that statement is, or most likely is hyperbolic, which i haven't seen you prove yet. Also i'm not asserting that there must be an anti-feat for a statement to be considered hyperbolic, that's just one form of evidence one can provide to prove something is hyperbolic, you ask for examples, i gave you examples, don't strawman my position like that dude.

That wouldn't mean it isn't an NLF. Your understanding of the term is wrong.

It isn't.

But they don't. There's no information that even implies that conclusions.

But they do, if it's explained that the Totsuka Blade's a spiritual weapon that's capable of "cutting down" any enemy it comes across, what's the property which would most likely provide that effect?, you're acting like we aren't capable of making extremely simple logical deductions like this when we can do so just fine and have that claim be internally and externally consistent.

 

[Trihexa102]

This may come as a shock, but your personal standards for determining whether or not something is hyperbole aren't universal. I already gave my reasoning, and I reject your assertion that an antifeat must be presented to determine something is hyperbolic, because such a standard is - in my opinion - absurd. If you can convince a menagerie staff otherwise, then you can pass something like that. Although I don't anticipate it.

That wouldn't mean it isn't an NLF. Your understanding of the term is wrong.



But they don't. There's no information that even implies that conclusions.



Evidence of what?

Bruh read the Durability negation page, It clearly shows Durability negation via soul manipulation , Which applies to the Totsuka blade as by existence alone it's a Spiritual blade by base, It can cut any enemy as long as they have souls( which it can affect by sucking or absorbing). Totsuka blade is a spirit blade it would still be able to interact with spirits as a form of dura negation.

 

[Deagonx]

My "personal standards" are based around logical deduction, which is universal, the onus is on you to prove in a logical manner why that statement is, or most likely is hyperbolic, which i haven't seen you prove yet

You can certainly claim your standard is logical, but I don't share that perspective and I think that is pretty irrational. I have already given my reasoning, you may not consider it a valid reason, but that's your business.

It isn't.

If you say so.

But they do, if it's explained that the Totsuka Blade's a spiritual weapon that's capable of "cutting down" any enemy it comes across, what's the property which would most likely provide that effect?

Certainly not that it's spiritual. There are lots of spiritual weapons that don't do that. And in the first place it's not proven or accepted that it actually could cut down anyone

 

[Stryker861]

Certainly not that it's spiritual. There are lots of spiritual weapons that don't do that. And in the first place it's not proven or accepted that it actually could cut down anyone

do you agree or disagree that the yata mirror can deflect all attacks

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Why is this still a debate? The Totsuka is a spiritual blade without physical form. If you don't have some kind of astral/spiritual defenses (aka soul manip that is connected to your durability) than yes the Totsuka blade is going to bypass your physical durability.

There are no anti feats for the Totsuka blade, it is stated to be a spiritual weapon without physical form, and it is portrayed as such. Totsuka blade should 100% have Limited Durability Negation (as a spiritual blade that lacks physical form, it can bypass one's physical durability in order to attack the soul directly).

 

[Deagonx]

do you agree or disagree that the yata mirror can deflect all attacks

Is that based solely on a similar statement? If so, no.

 

[Stryker861]

Is that based solely on a similar statement? If so, no.

I think you should read the statments on it
and regardless of what you think the site accpts this

 

[Deagonx]

There are no anti feats for the Totsuka blade, it is stated to be a spiritual weapon without physical form, and it is portrayed as such. Totsuka blade should 100% have Limited Durability Negation (as a spiritual blade that lacks physical form, it can bypass one's physical durability in order to attack the soul directly).

There's literally no evidence of this.

 

[Damage3245]

There's literally no evidence of this.

I have to say that Deagonx is correct.

We can't just conjecture our way into it having Limited Durability Negation, we have to have some degree of evidence, not just logically sound guesses.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Just gonna mention again that the last sentence of this paragraph gives a detailed, non hyperbolic description of the spirit weapons' ignoring AP/Durability

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

There's literally no evidence of this.

Did you read the databook or read the Itachi fight…

 

[Kachon123]

There's literally no evidence of this.

Read the OP?

 

[Kachon123]

Like what are yall on about

 

[Deagonx]

That's three staff disagreements.

 

[Kachon123]

Unless Damage disagrees for a reason outside of the stupid "no proof that it's a spiritual weapon without physical form," it does not count.

 

[Deceived3596]

Naruto can't have shit on this site ong

 

[KingogKings777]

Naruto can't have shit on this site ong

Blame Boruto.

 

[Kachon123]

Naruto can't have shit on this site ong

Staff members disagree just for the sake of disagreeing to get threads closed. Nothing new.