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Itachi's sword upgrade

LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Not necessarily. It can deal physical damage, yet carry a sealing component to it (which is what is straight up shown, no extrapolation needed). So I disagree on it ignoring durability.

Edit: I do agree with NPI, for Deceive's reasons
Click to expand...
Wait so do you agree with the op because of decieves reasons or just npi. Npi wasn't originally apart of the proposal but i can add it for sure
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Not necessarily. It can deal physical damage, yet carry a sealing component to it (which is what is straight up shown, no extrapolation needed). So I disagree on it ignoring durability.
Click to expand...
That wasent one of the arguments made in the op on why it would be dura neg.
To summerize
We have directect staements that are consistent with its decription and feats
Attacking on the sprirutal level
Is the offense counterpart of the yata mirror which can negate ANY type of attack on it
 
Stryker861 said:
That wasent one of the arguments made in the op on why it would be dura neg.
To summerize
We have directect staements that are consistent with its decription and feats
Attacking on the sprirutal level
Is the offense counterpart of the yata mirror which can negate ANY type of attack on it
Click to expand...
However, what has been shown is the sword doing physical damage. What I agree it does interact with the soul (specially the sealing part), but it doesn't target it specifically from what has been shown.
 
Deceived3596 said:
....

That's Sasuke referencing the fact that his sword couldn't cut through Kidomaru's webs, not that Itachi with his Totsuka Blade couldn't cut through it, hell you literally see Sasuke reaching for his sword while he's saying this. The fact you are interpreting this to include Itachi within it is wild when given context ngl.
Click to expand...
The fact that Itachi literally didn't object if he had a blade that ignored durability pretty much debunks any notion of it doing so especially when he used that blade to cut apart the bones instead, nowhere does the blade ever or is stated to negate durability of a physical object
 
Jaakor48 said:
The fact that Itachi literally didn't object if he had a blade that ignored durability pretty much debunks any notion of it doing so especially when he used that blade to cut apart the bones instead, nowhere does the blade ever or is stated to negate durability of a physical object
Click to expand...
1. That's an argument from ignorance, the lack of Itachi countering the statement isn't evidence of him believing said statement is true, for an example; if i'm talking to someone and he says he could beat Deontay Wilder in a fight, and i don't correct him, that isn't me agreeing with him that he in-fact could beat Deontay Wilder in a fight, that's just me not addressing the point at all.

2. Totsuka Blade is being argued to negate durability through attacking the soul, if an object doesn't have a soul, like Kidomaru's webs, than Itachi couldn't negate its durability because it lacks the prerequisite condition for that effect to proc in the first place.
 
Jaakor48 said:
The fact that Itachi literally didn't object if he had a blade that ignored durability pretty much debunks any notion of it doing so especially when he used that blade to cut apart the bones instead, nowhere does the blade ever or is stated to negate durability of a physical object
Click to expand...
being able to cut by physical means does not constitute an antithesis to the durabilty negation. What is discussed here is not the durability negation, but the conditions under which the negativity of endurance occurs. Does it need physical action or does it have a direct spiritual interaction?
 
non-physical interaction incorporeality soul manipulation things like energy manipulation are acceptable to me maybe it's posibly durabilty negation but i wouldn't give certainty
 
Last edited:
Stryker861 said:
Its stated that the liquid that spills from the gourd turns into the blade so it does resemble a shape when in use as we see. what do u mean when you say they have mass?
Click to expand...
But it's not a fixed shape. The "blade" isn't a fixed object like a normal blade is. When I say they have mass - when Itachi swings the blade on Orochimaru, he spreads his blood. The shield also stopped Orochimaru's physical advance. An intangible/spirit/ghost shield would be as useful as Obito physically trying to stop an attack while using kamui.

They are stated to be spirit tools, but spirits/souls and chakra are synonymous in Naruto, and there are several examples of that in the War Arc. Itachi's susanoo can wield said weapons when it is a body of chakra, and susanoo can be physically affected by normal physical strikes. Therefore these weapons can be physically interacted with, which Itachi and Orochimaru (also through his own statement) directly showcase. By definition, that would be NPI more than durability negation.
 
Golden_Void said:
When I say they have mass - when Itachi swings the blade on Orochimaru, he spreads his blood. The shield also stopped Orochimaru's physical advance. An intangible/spirit/ghost shield would be as useful as Obito physically trying to stop an attack while using kamui.
Click to expand...
The blade can interact with physcal and spiritual things so of course the blood would spill. The shield is stated to be able to change its attributes to match an oncoming attack so it just makes sense that the shield would interact with a physcal attack by changing its nature. The obito thing is a false equavalence.
 
Golden_Void said:
They are stated to be spirit tools, but spirits/souls and chakra are synonymous in Naruto, and there are several examples of that in the War Arc. Itachi's susanoo can wield said weapons when it is a body of chakra, and susanoo can be physically affected by normal physical strikes. Therefore these weapons can be physically interacted with, which Itachi and Orochimaru (also through his own statement) directly showcase. By definition, that would be NPI more than durability negation.
Click to expand...
These are not antifeats. If the susanoo is stated to be able to weild spiritual weapons than theres nothing wrong with that. that doesent mean that the susanoo becomes immune to physcal damage becuase it can interact with sprirutal weapons. Zetsu directly says orochimaru wasent able to find them because they dont have a physcal form
 
Deagonx said:
Well, Soul Manipulation is treated as a form of durability negation unto itself, but I am not sure if "putting someone in a mental illusory state" should really be considered durability negation or even soul manipulation. Like, is genjutsu usually considered soul manip? If not, then yeah I'd say none of this is really durability negation.
Click to expand...
The sword Is attacking the oppent physcally and to their soul which is then sealed
heres the first scan again https://external-preview.redd.it/6M...bp&s=4498651d5044e6459e90cfc3277dcecd50cbbe3f
 
I would aslo like to mention 1 more time that the author directly says that it can cut down any enemy along with 0 antifeats
 
Stryker861 said:
These are not antifeats. If the susanoo is stated to be able to weild spiritual weapons than theres nothing wrong with that. that doesent mean that the susanoo becomes immune to physcal damage becuase it can interact with sprirutal weapons. Zetsu directly says orochimaru wasent able to find them because they dont have a physcal form
Click to expand...
I'm not saying its an antifeat. The susanoo is also never stated to wield spiritual weapons; you ignored my statement about Orochimaru. Zetsu's statement was also after Orochimaru was bewildered that Itachi had it, which adds content to his statement. If nobody could find it because it has no physical form, then it is never explained how Itachi found it. Just reread what I said tbh.

Also my statement about Obito isn't a false equivalence. An intangible shield would not logically be able to defend against anything unless its magic.
 
When orochimaru got stabbed, he didn't even care at first, it felt like a normal blade, UNTIL it started sealing him, then he knew what it was.

Compare this with an actual durability negating technique that targets the souls like the gedo soul Dragon or the reaper death seal, attacks which completely ignore the physical body, THAT'S durability negation
 
Jaakor48 said:
When orochimaru got stabbed, he didn't even care at first, it felt like a normal blade, UNTIL it started sealing him, then he knew what it was.

Compare this with an actual durability negating technique that targets the souls like the gedo soul Dragon or the reaper death seal, attacks which completely ignore the physical body, THAT'S durability negation
Click to expand...
Those are just different forms of durability negation.
 
Jaakor48 said:
When orochimaru got stabbed, he didn't even care at first, it felt like a normal blade, UNTIL it started sealing him, then he knew what it was.

Compare this with an actual durability negating technique that targets the souls like the gedo soul Dragon or the reaper death seal, attacks which completely ignore the physical body, THAT'S durability negation
Click to expand...
That first sentence is completly irrlevant. Like goku sparkle said they are just diffrent types. not each will work in the same way dude.
 
Golden_Void said:
you ignored my statement about Orochimaru. Zetsu's statement was also after Orochimaru was bewildered that Itachi had it, which adds content to his statement. If nobody could find it because it has no physical form, then it is never explained how Itachi found it. Just reread what I said tbh.
Click to expand...
we dont know how itachi got them. that cant be used to refute the arguments espcially when we have a clear statement on the nature of these wepons. They do not have a physcal forn. that is what we know for sure. There is no reason to try and come up with headcanon stuff like oh oh maybe it means they dont have a set shape when that is not what is stated or anything like that
 
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