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I agree with OP's stated.
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Itachi's sword upgrade
- Thread starter Stryker861
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Just for consistency sake, do you hold the position that an objectively solid object, that's stated to be a solid object, could, by its sheer constitution, interact with other solid objects, or do you hold the position that would be illogical assumption to make?.
I'm asking because if you believe the former then your logical contentions with Totsuka Blade would fall apart since both examples have their interactive capabilities contingent on their composition, with the solid object being made of matter, and Totsuka Blade being made of spiritual energy.
Yeah, a spiritual object, by its very nature, can interact with other spiritual objects because both exist on the same fundamental level as each other, similar how a physical object can interact with another physical object since both objects are material/physical in nature.
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Deceived I added your argument for attacking on a spirutal level to the op if you didn't mind
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Come on, it's a sword that seals whatever it pierces, no where does it neg durability
Infact, it was specifically noted that they couldn't simply cut through kidomaru's webs
Then itachi went after the bones while Sasuke used enton on the webs, so no, there isn't anything like durability negation here.
When itachi stabbed orochimaru, he assumed it was just a regular sword, until it started sealing him, THAT'S when he knew what it was. The totsuka is a powerful blade that seals what it pierces, it doesn't negate durability
It being a spirit weapon in Naruto does not in any case mean it directly attacks souls or what not, there is literally an entire array of techniques that are based off spiritual manipulation known as YIN RELEASE.
This is a real reach to try and claim durability negation. Its a sword that seals what it pierces
Infact, it was specifically noted that they couldn't simply cut through kidomaru's webs
Then itachi went after the bones while Sasuke used enton on the webs, so no, there isn't anything like durability negation here.
When itachi stabbed orochimaru, he assumed it was just a regular sword, until it started sealing him, THAT'S when he knew what it was. The totsuka is a powerful blade that seals what it pierces, it doesn't negate durability
It being a spirit weapon in Naruto does not in any case mean it directly attacks souls or what not, there is literally an entire array of techniques that are based off spiritual manipulation known as YIN RELEASE.
This is a real reach to try and claim durability negation. Its a sword that seals what it pierces
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....
That's Sasuke referencing the fact that his sword couldn't cut through Kidomaru's webs, not that Itachi with his Totsuka Blade couldn't cut through it, hell you literally see Sasuke reaching for his sword while he's saying this. The fact you are interpreting this to include Itachi within it is wild when given context ngl.
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Sasuke made that statment that a blade cant cut it. He had no knowledge on the totska blade. Also itachi dident want to accedently hit kabuto with that big ass sword and seal him. He was trying to ultimately undo the reanimation.Come on, it's a sword that seals whatever it pierces, no where does it neg durability
Infact, it was specifically noted that they couldn't simply cut through kidomaru's webs
Then itachi went after the bones while Sasuke used enton on the webs, so no, there isn't anything like durability negation here.
When itachi stabbed orochimaru, he assumed it was just a regular sword, until it started sealing him, THAT'S when he knew what it was. The totsuka is a powerful blade that seals what it pierces, it doesn't negate durability
It being a spirit weapon in Naruto does not in any case mean it directly attacks souls or what not, there is literally an entire array of techniques that are based off spiritual manipulation known as YIN RELEASE.
This is a real reach to try and claim durability negation. Its a sword that seals what it pierces
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the sword directly interacts with Nagato's soul which is why it's able to trap him inside it.
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It didn't interact with an intangible soul though; it had to strike Nagato's physical body. There's no knowing if it would work if the sword was waved through a soul by itself.
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souls dont suddenly become physical once they inside a body, otherwise we wouldn't need to separate souls from bodies in the first place.
thats also avoiding the larger context, it didnt have to strike nagato's body because of a limitation of the power, it had to strike nagato's body because his soul was connected with that vessel. in the same way 90% of the rest of fiction needs to first target the physical targer. ( not effect a physical body but just target an area of effect) where the soul is connected to get the desired outcome. otherwise people could just randomly attack a homeless person on the street and hope and pray their arch rival from across the globe gets his soul injured.
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Damage, you literally don't know if it had to damage his physical body to interact with his soul, that's you extrapolating an assumption from the events we're given, that's not a known, concrete fact, it's entirely your interpretation. It's entirely as probable, if not even more so that since the sword does, by its very nature, interact with both the physical and spiritual, the consequence of that would be the sword physically damaging Nagato if he's attacked with the sword, alongside it damaging his soul.
If Nagato existed purely as an intangible soul, than the Totsuka Blade would most likely interact with him since it's also a spiritual object, y'all aren't addressing this argument in any actual, meaningful manner, y'all are only obfuscating away from the question by asserting inherent weaknesses that aren't even provable, or are inherently counter intuitive to the very nature of the sword itself.
If Nagato existed purely as an intangible soul, than the Totsuka Blade would most likely interact with him since it's also a spiritual object, y'all aren't addressing this argument in any actual, meaningful manner, y'all are only obfuscating away from the question by asserting inherent weaknesses that aren't even provable, or are inherently counter intuitive to the very nature of the sword itself.
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The same thing you're objecting to applies exactly to what you're saying; you don't know that it being a "spiritual object" means that it would interact with an intangible soul.
And I wasn't asserting a weakness; I just said "There's no knowing if it would work if the sword was waved through a soul by itself."
Allow me to ammend my "It had to strike Nagato's body" to "It did strike Nagato's body."
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No, it doesn't exactly apply to what i'm saying since my argument has actual precedence while yours doesn't, objects which have the same fundamental constitution, by nature, can interact with objects of equal constitution, like a solid object interacting with another solid object. The onus would be on you to disprove the precedence, which you are incapable of doing since it would require you to assert we shouldn't assume physical objects can interact with other physical objects with the same composition because of the lack of direct feats, and (or) statements.
You are, that's the logical consequence of your assertion Damage.
Cool, doesn't disprove anything we are asserting, it's just useless conjecture.
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Souls are by definition not tangible things, they exist within people outside of their physical forms, the entire description of what a soul is hinges on it not being a material thing. sure there some exceptions to this rule but they are exceptions that prove the rule. this argument is the equivalent of saying organs are not physical unless proven.
Definition of a soul: "
"the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal."
Definition of a spirit: "
"the non-physical part of a person which is the seat of emotions and character; the soul."
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That's an assumption on your part that I don't agree with, sorry.
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Real.
I'll take your non engagement of my argument as a personal concession, doesn't really do anything on this site, but personally it does mean something to me.
I'll take your non engagement of my argument as a personal concession, doesn't really do anything on this site, but personally it does mean something to me.
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https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Yata_Mirror here it is said that the yata mirror can react and interact with both physical and spiritual attacks, probably the same would be true for the totsuka blade, it can be molded both physically and spiritually, so that of the orochimarun can not be an antithesis
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Soul Manipulation, I don't have a problem with.
It's the NPI and Durability Negation that I don't think is explicit.
Arkenis
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How can u agree to soul manip but not to npi? The ability to soul manip requires npi,
And I mean cmon we already give Susanoo users npi lmao, why is totska blade being treated differently now?
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That's not true as far as I understand it. You can manipulate the soul in various ways without physically touching it. One ability does not require the other.
Arkenis
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But in this instance the sword is targeting the soul itself, sucking it in, that's npi.
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When has Itachi ever sealed anyone's soul? He's only used the Totsuka Blade to seal people not the Kusanagi Blade.
Arkenis
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the totska blade is a variant of the kusanagi blade
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Isn't the kusanagi blade used by Orochimaru though or is it 2 blades with the same name one with itachi and one with orochimaru?the totska blade is a variant of the kusanagi blade
Arkenis
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The blade Itachi uses is a variant of the kusangi blade
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I know.
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yes soul manipulation works that way too but the totsuka blade is said to be spiritual anyway and originally in a physical pattern like a yata mirror can enter a solid or an energy pattern for physical attacks
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Agreed with the OP’s arguments. There also seems to be next to no anti-feats for the Totsuka Blade and Yata Mirror.
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If we look at the sum total for totsuka blade and yata mirror, by manipulating the chakra can absorb various nature transformations energy manipulation, lack of any form incorporeality, ability to be in spiritual pattern abstraction, can interact with and absorb spirits non-physical interaction, traps souls in genjutsu soul manipulation?
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If others agree I have no problem with adding some of those
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sorry sometimes the translation doesn't express what i want i'm talking about abstractness because of the concept of soul
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excel has your opinion changed at all or are u still nuetral
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Not necessarily. It can deal physical damage, yet carry a sealing component to it (which is what is straight up shown, no extrapolation needed). So I disagree on it ignoring durability.
Edit: I do agree with NPI, for Deceive's reasons
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Whats even getting changed/added? Like whats the proposal? Other then durability negation.
Excellence616
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I agree
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Wait so do you agree with the op because of decieves reasons or just npi. Npi wasn't originally apart of the proposal but i can add it for sure
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