Itachi's sword upgrade

[KingogKings777]

Are all naruto threads like this? I feel like I'm talking at several brick walls at once.

This is why we downgrade brotha.

 

[KingogKings777]

I believe in Japanese one of the spellings for "soul" is also used for "mind". Would be better to check the raws on that.

Here's the raw in case you want it checked.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

"Can harm anything regardless of durability"
"Can phase through objects and seal them"
"Doesn't physically interact with the world"
"Directly interacts with their soul regardless of the strength of the vessel"

1. Databooks don't use terms like that
2. It doesn't phase through them though, it stabs them to seal them
3. Lowkey does
4. It's not completely direct so not sure that'd be accurate
See all these descriptions would be well and good in different circumstances, but with how the blade works the statements as they are are pretty solid

 

[KingTempest]

The blade works as a non physical blade that acts like a physical blade that slices and stabs people like a regular blade, only difference is that it's primarily formed out of rapid shifting liquid that can seal and transmute people.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Here's the raw in case you want it checked.

Asked

Thanks for the raw

 

[MinatoSparkle]

The blade works as a non physical blade that acts like a physical blade that slices and stabs people like a regular blade, only difference is that it's primarily formed out of rapid shifting liquid that can seal and transmute people.

Non physical liquid

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Curse Marks aren't really souls there his consciousness.

Seems a second upgrade is in order. The totsuka blade should have both mental and spiritual sealing + NPI

 

[Damage3245]

His points were easy to read, plus ik him offsite so I've been hearing only 1 side for a while.

Totsuka Blade is a spiritual blade.
They know that.
They're not disagreeing with that.

But the Totsuka blade doesn't act like a durability negating blade.

It doesn't phase through opponents, it physically harms them, and blood can rest on the blade.

The databook is honestly flat out wrong at that point saying it has no physical form when it can physically interact with others, can have regular blood interact with it, and is also called liquid by the databook as well.

Now, that "cut down any enemy" argument is such bs.

Kinshiki has dura neg for being able to obliterate all things?
What about Temari who can "eliminate any enemy that stands in her way"?
Same for Madara cutting down all things?
Or nobody inverse standing a chance to Sasuke's speed?
Maybe Kakashi's Raikiri being able to cut through anything?

That argument is just trying to quantify hyperbole. It shouldn't count.

On top of that, can yall chill tf out?

I think that KingTempest summarized it greatly.

 

[Golden_Void]

Wait are you saying that it is or isn't? Cause the databook does say the weapons are magical.

It says yata mirror is a spiritual weapon. Spiritual =/= magical. I am aware of what the title says (which is never again repeated in the DB OR manga).

we dont know how itachi got them. that cant be used to refute the arguments espcially when we have a clear statement on the nature of these wepons. They do not have a physcal forn. that is what we know for sure. There is no reason to try and come up with headcanon stuff like oh oh maybe it means they dont have a set shape when that is not what is stated or anything like that

It is literally a liquid non-physical sword. It is not structurally defined like a real sword.

it littery is stated to

I'm saying the ability to wield spirit weapons is not an inherent ability of all susanoos. They are literally chakra structures, which is why I said at the minimum, all you need is chakra to be able to interact with the sword. My original point being, anything with chakra can interact with these weapons.

 

[Golden_Void]

Also, the hyperbolic statements are memes. The strongest opponent the shield faced was Orochimaru, and Nagato was literally smokescreened in puppet mode when he got pierced, so we have no idea if the rinnegan could have absorbed it or not. As I said before, there are no feats putting these weapons anywhere near the feats and statements of a TSB. Even the tools of the six paths are trash in comparison, which are stated to be the most powerful ninja tools.

 

[KingogKings777]

Seems a second upgrade is in order. The totsuka blade should have both mental and spiritual sealing + NPI

To wordy(my biggest issue), also doesn't this contradict the databook now since it's telling you two different things at once?

Also if any other raws are need I can see if I got them.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

It says yata mirror is a spiritual weapon. Spiritual =/= magical. I am aware of what the title says (which is never again repeated in the DB OR manga).

Why can't it be both?

Also, the hyperbolic statements are memes. The strongest opponent the shield faced was Orochimaru, and Nagato was literally smokescreened in puppet mode when he got pierced, so we have no idea if the rinnegan could have absorbed it or not. As I said before, there are no feats putting these weapons anywhere near the feats and statements of a TSB. Even the tools of the six paths are trash in comparison, which are stated to be the most powerful ninja tools.

It doesn't have feats anywhere near the TSOs because the characters around at the time weren't nearly as strong as they were in the late WA. What do you expect Kishimoto to do? Have God descend from the heavens to be negged by the spirit weapons?

 

[Deagonx]

Why can't it be both?

This is such a ridiculous question. He's obviously not saying it couldn't be both. The evidence we have is that it's spiritual. Do you have evidence that it is also magical?

It doesn't have feats anywhere near the TSOs because the characters around at the time weren't nearly as strong as they were in the late WA. What do you expect Kishimoto to do? Have God descend from the heavens to be negged by the spirit weapons?

The circumstances which may have prevented it from having such feats doesn't change or override the fact that it doesn't have those feats.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Btw, Deagonx, what do you think about having both mental and spiritual sealing? (Alongside npi of course)

 

[Deagonx]

Btw, Deagonx, what do you think about having both mental and spiritual sealing? (Alongside npi or course)

I think most likely the concepts are similar enough in practice in the verse that it might be a bit redundant, but I'm not opposed to it per se.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

This is such a ridiculous question. He's obviously not saying it couldn't be both. The evidence we have is that it's spiritual. Do you have evidence that it is also magical?

Yes, the statement that it is

The circumstances which may have prevented it from having such feats doesn't change or override the fact that it doesn't have those feats.

Why is everyone always saying where are the feats Statements are valid when there aren't feats to the contrary, despite what many people seem to think. Feats>Statements is true when they both exist and oppose each other, but that doesn't mean statements on their own aren't good enough

 

[Deagonx]

Yes, the statement that it is

What statement says its magical?

Why is everyone always saying where are the feats

Because that is the bread and butter of the basic concept of this website.

Statements are valid when there aren't feats to the contrary, despite what many people seem to think.

Despite what you may seem to think, we do not blindly accept statements as valid just because "there aren't feats to the contrary." Where did you get this idea that statements are just accepted carte blanche without anti feats? That would be a completely insane standard to have. And with that said, there are antifeats to much of what is being proposed here.

but that doesn't mean statements on their own aren't good enough

It depends on context and content. Given the clear hyperbole in many of these statements, it would be crazy to take them at face value. Theres like 4 people arguing here, without a shred of irony, that the totsuka blade could just straight up gib any opponent because of a hype statement in a guidebook. Makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

What statement says its magical?

Because that is the bread and butter of the basic concept of this website.

Feats and statements are used a plenty

Despite what you may seem to think, we do not blindly accept statements as valid just because "there aren't feats to the contrary." Where did you get this idea that statements are just accepted carte blanche without anti feats? That would be a completely insane standard to have. And with that said, there are antifeats to much of what is being proposed here.

I'm not saying ALL statements should be accepted without question, I'm just saying statements don't always need feats. And what antifeats are those?

It depends on context and content. Given the clear hyperbole in many of these statements, it would be crazy to take them at face value. Theres like 4 people arguing here, without a shred of irony, that the totsuka blade could just straight up gib any opponent because of a hype statement in a guidebook. Makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Statements about things with infinite AP and durability are naturally going to SOUND hyperbolic, but that doesn't mean they are. TSOs are stated to nullify all ninjutsu, which sounds exaggerated, but that's just the properties of how it works, and is accepted. The Totsuka Blade can't defeat absolutely everyone, but it does work on everyone that only has conventional durability.

 

[Deagonx]

The Totsuka Blade can't defeat absolutely everyone, but it does work on everyone that only has conventional durability.

Then you're literally agreeing that the statement is wrong. It doesn't say "can cut down any enemy that has conventional durability." It says any enemy.

 

[DonkeySlayer06]

Hey everyone, this is my first CRT so hopefully this goes well. The upgrade that I am proposing is that Durability Negation be added to Itachi's Totska blade. I have 3 main reason for believing that the Totska blade can Bypass durability.

1. The Totska blade is stated to be able to cut down any enemy

Even though it has extremely few showings, each time it has been used it has never struggled to cut up Oroichimaru, his 8 headed hydra, and Nagato. so it has no antifeats

2. The totska blade as well as the yata mirror lack physical form

With this information we know that the totska blade doesn't have a physical form, despite this its still able to interact with the physical world (its weird I know). Now this is important because without a physical form, the traditional formula for force which is mass x acceleration cannot be used.

Edit: Sense the totska blade is adressed as a spritual weapon multiple times. It should likely be capable of attacking on a spritual level

3. Its stated multiple times to be the perfect Offense
On the first paragraph it states that itachi's Susanoo boast an absolutly perfect attack due to this blade. These weapons are also called matchless for their respective uses.
As we know, the yata mirror is able to defend from any type of attack no matter what and can freely change its attributes to render an oncoming attack ineffective as stated. Now i mentioned this because based on everything we now about the yata mirror, it really is the perfect defense. So in order for one to have a perfect offense as well, it should not rely on someones durability being low enough and be able to completely ignore it which supports it being able to cut down any enemy.

Lastly i just want to thank yall for taking the time to read this, whatever the outcome this was pretty fun to make

Agree: LuffyRuffy46307, Milly_Rocking_Bandit, Kachon123, Trihexa102, Decieved3596, shadownobokunohero, gokusparkle, GTsek, ssgengar, Monkey_Dunno, Robo, Golden_ void, karzen, Arkensis, Yusuf21259, AnimesFreak2, Godernet, NaruRiasUzamki, RanaProGamer, Excel616, (Just NPI)LephyrTheranchivist, (just soul manip) Deagonx
(limited Dura neg)Arc7kuroi

Nuetral: Ped2018,

disagree: Kingogkings777, Kaydee, Damage3245

I agree Reason 2. It looks explainable

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Then you're literally agreeing that the statement is wrong. It doesn't say "can cut down any enemy that has conventional durability." It says any enemy.

If it's from an inverse perspective then it's true

 

[Deagonx]

@LephyrTheRevanchist @Damage3245 @KingTempest

It seems like we all disagree with durability negation, but we're okay with Non-Physical Interaction and "Soul Manipulation via Sealing."

Should we enact those upgrades and close this thread?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@LephyrTheRevanchist @Damage3245 @KingTempest

It seems like we all disagree with durability negation, but we're okay with Non-Physical Interaction and "Soul Manipulation via Sealing."

Should we enact those upgrades and close this thread?

Thought we were waiting on Deceived, but I suppose enough time has passed.

 

[KingogKings777]

Thought we were waiting on Deceived, but I suppose enough time has passed.

He's getting milk with Arc.

 

[Deagonx]

He's getting milk with Arc.

Is that a Naruto Abridged reference or am I just old

 

[KingogKings777]

Is that a Naruto Abridged reference or am I just old

Nah it's a fatherless joke.

 

[Golden_Void]

It doesn't have feats anywhere near the TSOs because the characters around at the time weren't nearly as strong as they were in the late WA. What do you expect Kishimoto to do? Have God descend from the heavens to be negged by the spirit weapons?

Let's not pretend that editors only create the plot of a series from chapter to chapter. Everything was already thought of from beginning to end. If Kishimoto wanted to, he would have.

Scan

Again, the title mentioning the word "magical," which is literally never repeated elsewhere, is just more evidence of hyperbole. The same databook titles say Sasuke has "godlike speed" even though he was nowhere near the level of the kages who were actually called gods of shinobi at that time.

 

[Deceived3596]

Thought we were waiting on Deceived, but I suppose enough time has passed.

Y'all can close the thread and add the changes, just don't care enough to respond to this thread anymore tbh.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Let's not pretend that editors only create the plot of a series from chapter to chapter. Everything was already thought of from beginning to end. If Kishimoto wanted to, he would have.

Having something super out of nowhere like that just for the purpose of showing the full extent of their power would be a bad writing choice

Again, the title mentioning the word "magical," which is literally never repeated elsewhere, is just more evidence of hyperbole. The same databook titles say Sasuke has "godlike speed" even though he was nowhere near the level of the kages who were actually called gods of shinobi at that time.

How can magical even be an exaggeration? It's not like that's a high level of a certain thing like ultimate is a higher version of good. Magical is just a property, nothing more, nothing less. Not every piece of info can be repeated multiple times, or the databooks would be twice as long.

Tbh CM2 Hebi Sasuke is fairly close to the speed of the Kage when you take his Shunshin into account, which the databook seems to be referring to.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

His points were easy to read, plus ik him offsite so I've been hearing only 1 side for a while.

Totsuka Blade is a spiritual blade.
They know that.
They're not disagreeing with that.

But the Totsuka blade doesn't act like a durability negating blade.

It doesn't phase through opponents, it physically harms them, and blood can rest on the blade.

The databook is honestly flat out wrong at that point saying it has no physical form when it can physically interact with others, can have regular blood interact with it, and is also called liquid by the databook as well.

Now, that "cut down any enemy" argument is such bs.

Kinshiki has dura neg for being able to obliterate all things?
What about Temari who can "eliminate any enemy that stands in her way"?
Same for Madara cutting down all things?
Or nobody inverse standing a chance to Sasuke's speed?
Maybe Kakashi's Raikiri being able to cut through anything?

That argument is just trying to quantify hyperbole. It shouldn't count.

On top of that, can yall chill tf out?

King Tempest summarizes this all very well and this thread is just evidence of people jumping on board neglecting evidence just to force an upgrade through.

1. The Totska blade is stated to be able to cut down any enemy - Hyperbole

I don't think I should explain to anyone that this is obviously hyperbolic texts. Same weight as Madara's statement of destroying everything in the universe.

2. The totska blade as well as the yata mirror lack physical form - Proven False

The most bullshit fake point I've ever read in my life. If the Totsuka Blade lacked a physical form it would not be able to physically interact with things.

How does a non-physical object have blood resting on it?

The blade literally has to be physical in order for blood to physically rest on it.

Even if the Totsuka Blade was somehow lacking a physical form (which it does not) this wouldn't be evidence of durability negation. Not having a physical form is not durability negating.

3. Its stated multiple times to be the perfect Offense - Wow People are Dumb

This site and the Naruto fandom are going down the drain if people are genuinely accepting this as evidence, even if this were somehow to be a non-hyperbolic and true statement, this does not mention nor grant any evidence of durability negation.

Staff should just close this, this is obviously wank being attempted to be forced through and added.

In no instance is the Totsuka Blade shown as negating durability.

In no instance is the Totsuka Blade shown as lacking a physical form as it has physical properties.

What people are also not grasping is that the blade can have spiritual properties while also displaying that it has physical properties. It's very obvious that the blade needs to still physically pierce you in order to enact it's spiritual properties.

• Example being that Orochimaru was physically pierced as shown with blood being thrusted out of his body from being stabbed by the Totsuka Blade and then sucked in spiritually.

It is not negating durability, it's physical and doing physical damage as shown by making Orochimaru bleed, and then has a spiritual ability.

 

[Deagonx]

Wow People are Dumb

You may disagree, and I share that sentiment, but there's no need for insults in a rebuttal.

 

[Damage3245]

IMade seems to have summarized the issues quite well to me, and I trust their judgement.


Though I will echo Deagonx's points that insults should be avoided.

 

[Stryker861]

I thought i said already that this could be closed since most staff disagree

 

[Godernet]

iirc NPI and Soul Manipulation via Sealing were still agreed on by most staff that participated. shouldn't we wait and see if there is a consensus on that before closing?

 

[Stryker861]

iirc NPI and Soul Manipulation via Sealing were still agreed on by most staff that participated. shouldn't we wait and see if there is a consensus on that before closing?

Yea i dont think most people had a problem with that

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

It should be limited NPI only with the Totsuka Blade.

It can only use its spiritual properties if it can physically pierce you. Otherwise it would not be effective as it needs to physically pierce you to spiritually seal.

 

[Damage3245]

I thought i said already that this could be closed since most staff disagree

If you want, I can close it now.

 

[Stryker861]

If you want, I can close it now.

Lets apply the soul manip and npi first