Invulnerability, Immunity and NLF

[PsychoWarper]

Alright but its listed as Soul Manip.

 

[Udlmaster]

I think Invulnerability to certain hax should stay, it's an obvious way to say that their resistance to certain hax is not just "resisting". I've always found that when it says "Resistance" it sounds like it's only partial or "Muh stonk hax" breaks it easily (See Resisters in Electricity, Emps profile that says "Extreme resistance" as a way to say higher than just normal resistance.) Of course when it comes to Invulerability to hax, Terms and conditions apply, a Robot who is Invulnerable to Mind hax is then immune to all Mental based attacks on it's person, but Higher-Dimensional Mind Hax bypasses this, Mind Manipulation that isn't based on the Mind/Brain to fuction or Such, would obviously bypass it.

The "Muh NLF tho" is just thrown on to worsen the load, it's not really even an argument to be had because it's really not, and nothing on the profile even implies it to be NLF, the last clause literally states it has a limit by nature, which, you know, a NLF cannot have.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

" Invulnerability against Statistics Reduction, Death Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Acid Manipulation, Disease Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Disintegratio, BFR, Sleep Manipulation, Petrification/Paralysis, Transmutation, Poison Manipulation, and "Stunning"

So you are trying to say that this is nowhere near NLF? Without any context, it is. To be blunt. Higher Dimensions are not even needed to bypass a resistance. There is simply a chance that someone can just have a higher potency than what they can resist. It's that simple. This above is simply a resistance. And this time you can't pull the I'm going against the site" card as people here blantantly long agreed to this.

 

[Udlmaster]

That appears like it's from Vecna's page, and no, it's not NLF, here's the context, even from comparable 2-C and even stronger beings 2-A beings, he is still immune to all the above Invulnerabilities, it still works on a comparable level and even a higher level than him.

As well, changing around the abilities of the site and changing things to "Resistance" would make it repeatedly more confusing when trying to use them in a Verses debate, because a lot of people see "Resistance" and believe it's automatically low tier.

With Invulnerability, it's an obvious way to show "Okay, this is a higher tier of Resistance."

 

[Wokistan]

Consider that even the likes of Khorne only has "extreme resistance" to nearly every power in the setting, despite being totally immune to the other CGs, being something the emperor can't permanently deal with, and the weaker gods. For all intents and purposes, of the beings that exist currently he is immune to everyone but Malice and some of the Emperor. If someone like that doesn't have immunity on the file (which khorne shouldn't have, btw) then DnD divinenimmunities should be listed as resistances and just justified with something like what I typed above.

 

[Udlmaster]

Not gonna lie, that just sounds like the appeal to emotion, "This super strong character here doesn't have it on their profile, so no one should have it at all."

 

[Wokistan]

Yes that is an nlf. You can have a resistance to stronger stuff than you and it'll still be a resistance.

I don't think anybody thinks like this. People don't assume someone like Khorne or the Warpriest or people like that are bad because they have the word resistance.

Just write justifications for resistances fhe same way you do for abilities. I don't think we should be adding immjnitirs. Look at the Deathsinger Twins. Besides the likes of Oryx and Savathun, I can't think of anyone without higher dimensional powers who has better death manip than they do. I wouldn't give them immunity due to being able to hear each other's songs just fine though, because there always is the possibility of something greater than that. And this is like extremely high end death manip. LoP is in 2-A and High 2-A. There's definitely some crazy abioities betond what she can resist.

 

[Wokistan]

Not gonna lie, that just sounds like the appeal to emotion, "This super strong character here doesn't have it on their profile, so no one should have it at all."

Of all the fallacies, you pick... Emotion?

The point is consistency, not that I am mad that khorne has different wording. He is immune to the stuff he resists in verse, but there's no reason to assume he's gonna be immune to stuff betond what he's already shown feats wise.

 

[Wokistan]

I'm going to sleep, hope the thread hasnt exploded by morning

 

[Crzer07]

I'm just surprised that we take stuff like "soul haxing souless beings" seriously. Immunity/invulnerability could be invalidated as NLF via paradoxical non-sensical stuff like that taken to the extreme. But then stuff like that can be achieved only via the most hax abilities such as paradox and logic manipulation. But then again people like Alphamon does have law manipulation, but not sure if it's potent enough to affect logic. In that sense Immunity/invulnerability would be as NLF-y as having omnipotence.

 

[Andytrenom]

If he can soul hax something it isn't truly soulness. That's like matter manipulating a non-corporeal.

I mean, we have a guy who can time stop a timeless realm so...

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

If he can soul hax something it isn't truly soulness. That's like matter manipulating a non-corporeal.

I mean, iirc SS characters atomize souls. And said character is directly mentioned in all canon media to be soulless. But that's irrelevant, we can discuss this on my wall if you wish.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Not all robots are mindless, and those robots are still typically susceptible to things such as computer hacking of course. Anyway, I can agree that resistance should nearly always be used instead of immunity, unless there's something such as having no soul or mind to begin with. Though, what about characters being able to absorb elemental attacks and have been shown to do so on the strongest levels of said element?

 

[Agnaa]

That's only absorption up to the level they've demonstrated.

They wouldn't have been able to show it on "the strongest levels of said element" unless they'd tanked some tier 0 elements or something, right?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Not all robots are mindless, and those robots are still typically susceptible to things such as computer hacking of course. Anyway, I can agree that resistance should nearly always be used instead of resistance, unless there's something such as having no soul or mind to begin with. Though, what about characters being able to absorb elemental attacks and have been shown to do so on the strongest levels of said element?

I agree. Resistance should be used instead of Resistance. ovo

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I fixed that typo.

 

[Andytrenom]

That's only absorption up to the level they've demonstrated.

They wouldn't have been able to show it on "the strongest levels of said element" unless they'd tanked some tier 0 elements or something, right?

Yes, i believe if they have tanked tier 0 attacks they should be given immunity instead of resistance >~>

 

[Agnaa]

Of course but, DDM said

Though, what about characters being able to absorb elemental attacks and have been shown to do so on the strongest levels of said element?

I'm saying this absorption would only work to the highest level it's shown at.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Unrelated, but can we please remove the One Hit Kill power from the wiki? It's utterly arbitrary, nonsensical, and not even a real power. And conveys a NLF. Literally anything can one-shot depending on the strength of the attacker and the weakness of the opponent.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, One Hit kill shouldn't be confused with things such as Death Manipulation; no amount of raw power grants that as an ability.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

So One Hit Kill users should just have durability negation instead?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Especially seeing as most One Hit Kill moves in games (where you mostly see them referred to as such) are based off some hax like Absolute Zero, Soul Manipulation or Death Manipulation.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Anything can be a OHK and many things that can be are their own abilities. Life Death Manipulation.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So One Hit Kill users should hpjust have durability negation instead?

No even that honestly. Unless they have some other properties that make them DN.

 

[Lancer45Man]

Question,

Would Conventional Mind Manipulation and Soul Manipulation work on literal abstract entities like the Rosei from Senshinkan or Daemons from Warhammer???

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Not all One Hit Kill moves are though? That's a massive generalization.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

No even that honestly. Unless they have some other properties that make them DN.

What if it just straight up ignores power? To a reasonable degree of course

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Not all One Hit Kill moves are though? That's a massive generalization.

Most are however. And those who aren't need to be evaluated seperately as they can be ripe with Game Mechanics.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

What if it just straight up ignores power? To a reasonable degree of course

That's a hax ability.

 

[Lancer45Man]

I got ignored ;-;

 

[Yobo_Blue]

What if it's shown IRL?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

You have any examples?

Moves like the Pokemon ones are kinda just powerful moves. They are one-shots, but they have no real mechanic behind them, except Sheer Cold. Doesn't mean they are OHK to someone from another verse.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Question,
Would Conventional Mind Manipulation and Soul Manipulation work on literal abstract entities like the Rosei from Senshinkan or Daemons from Warhammer???

No, you would need Mind Manip and Soul Manip on that beings level of existence.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, Immune to Absolute Zero is the biggest NLF I see on the Pokemon profiles.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Yu-Gi-Oh in series where effects are usable IRL for example.

Any verse that translates game mechanics into IRL really.

(I'm not against the page's deletion, BTW, I just want to know what it it'll be classified as)

 

[Antvasima]

If you remove the OHK page, you would need to update a lot of profiles that link to it: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/One_Hit_Kill?limit=500

 

[PsychoWarper]

That looks like its gonna fun ovo.

 

[Andytrenom]

Let's save that revision for another thread then.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

Question. On a profile that I made, a 7-C character has Invulnerability for being completely immune to damage from multiple 4-C characters. Is that ok or should I delete it?

By multiple, I mean dozens at a time

 

[Agnaa]

You could just give them 4-C durability, right?