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Invulnerability, Immunity and NLF

If it's dozens at a time, as opposed to over dozen distinct occasions. How do you know it's not an outlier?
 
About the OP:

Yes immunity is a NLF unless you lack the thing that the hax targets to begin with.

I really don't think that AI and robots should have immunity to mind manipulation. Stuff that involves the brain, sure. But if the mind is simply consciousness/sentience, it would work just fine on a sentient robot
 
Andytrenom said:
If it's dozens at a time, as opposed to over dozen distinct occasions. How do you know it's not an outlier?
Click to expand...
They consistantly perform that same feat over and over again during the course of the book. Skimming it again tells me that they overcome a sustained assult by the Jones', at least seven times and even survive one of them hitting their ship with a literal supernova. It's one of the most major plot points that the Jones' couldn't destroy them using their conventional means, and had to resort to the magic stones.
 
@Kal

All depends on the functionality of the mind manip. If it is brain-based, like Ragyō Kiryüi, it would fail. If it is based on the metaphysical consciousness of the target, it would work on robots provided the robot has such metaphysicality.
 
Andytrenom said:
What if the target is non existent? @Assalt @Kal
Click to expand...
If the target is non-existent it can't do anything since it literally isn't there. If the character can do literally anything, even think, it exists in some form or fashion. Ergo why I hate the Nonexistent Physiology page and every character that is "non-existent". Like no, you're not non-existent, just not existent in a conventional or normal way.

Rant over
 
@Assalt

Yeah, that's why it shouldn't be immunity.

@Andy

Depends from the nonexistent. A Dark Area Digimon lacks a consciousness and would be immune. Meanwhile someone whose body is made of nothingness can still be mind haxed.
 
In my opinion in the mind hax page there should be a classification of the types of mind hax depending on how it works, making a distinction between biological based ones and consciousness based ones, or clasifying it depending on the level of abstraction it can affect
 
On the invulnerability stuff. Why does Magnamon have completely invulnerable on his page? When the invulnerability page itself says you can only have completely invulnerable if you are omnipotent. Which Magnamon is not.
 
This makes sense.

Immunity should have a page for itself, instead of being tagged on resistances, given how many misconceptions there are about it.
 
I'm gonna assume that the Invulnerability is a NLF and replace it with resistance to physical damage or something
 
Invulnerability only means you are invulnerable to damage at your tier/energy/whatever, generally speaking. It's not NLF past how some people interpret it.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
Invulnerability only means you are invulnerable to stuff at your tier, generally speaking. It's not NLF past how some people interpret it.
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Like he's said a few times, he has it on a civ profile because civ profiles don't have durability, so there's really not anything to replace it with.

Maybe a note in the invulnerability's description that it's only shown to work up to 4-C attacks?
 
Dargoo Faust said:
This makes sense.
Immunity should have a page for itself, instead of being tagged on resistances, given how many misconceptions there are about it.
Click to expand...
^ This. Many people have the misconception that Immunity isn't just "souless beings immune to soul manip" and other such cases, and think it also affects more regular scenarios
 
I'd like to point out it was agreed the invulnerability on the DnD pages should be changed to "extreme resistance" (It's extremely good resistance) instead
 
I also kinda wanna toss this out here about the immunity to soul manipulation based on not having a soul:

There are soul manipulators whose soul manip works on inserting a soul or soul fragments into someone, so they would obviously work on people without Souls. Pucci comes to mind in that regard
 
Of course, immunity to something =/= immunity to every circumstance that can lead to said thing

For instance
Character x is immune to death due to being already dead.

Character y has resurrection/life and death manipulation and makes x "alive".

x is no longer absolutely immune to any death hax and can then be "killed".
 
I known that it was mentioned time ago but hacking Robots do not counts as mind manipulation, is technopathy and that is pretty different.

As for dead characters being immune to deatm manipulation is not always the case, theynare immune to conventional death manipulation, is not weird that there's a few death powers that can kill them (like Zeref, Shiki, the Nameless, etc).
 
As for undead, it depends whether they are immaterial (like ghosts) or not (like vampires and zombies). It also depends how much their brain is damaged: if their nervous system is fine, then regular brain-wash and stuff can work, but if it's reduced to rotten pieces of flesh and blood, and yet the character can still function perfectly, probably not.
 
Conventional undeads can still be killed in a conventional way by causing them damage, but for practical ways they are immune to death manipulation (although of low level). Vampires no necessary are considered undeads, it depends of how the verse tread them.
 
They should also be immune to Soul Hax unless the verse uses an "every object has a soul" system.
 
I think all "Immunity" should be replaced with "High Resistance to". Since there's certain people that can still do things like manipulate souls on people that lack a soul and such in fiction.
 
"High" is a relative concept. It could mean slightly better than a regular resistance, or a higher dimensional one depending on the contest.
 
I think the inmunity is enough. We just need to specify in some profiles that some abilities bypasses inmunities coming from the lack of the target.
 
Soul haxxing someone who doesn't have a soul means that the claim of them not having a soul is false, not that it bypasses their immunity. That is logically impossible.
 
That has to do with the meaning/status of death more than it being logically impossible. @Sans
 
SansTheSkeleton101 said:
It's also logically impossible to inflict dead on already dead beings and spirits yet people have that and can do it.
Click to expand...
Maybe because they are inflicting something more abstratc that standard Death manipulation? Like EE or Concept Erasure?
 
Nope. See The Goal of All Life is Death. It has nothing to do with its state of death. It kills things that lack a concept of death
 
That is another can of worms we should get rid of. The way we treat nonexistence. See what Assalt said.
 
I think the problem is taking into account how fiction will treat non-existent characters. It's the same thing as FTL, being able to create energy, etc. Fiction(or the authors) just doesn't seem to care.
 
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