Invincible Downgrade

[M3X_2.0]

Also I found a new feat we can use. Brit and Invincible survived attacks from the Omega Tech Jacket (Brit 2007 #10) which produced like, 7-A or 6-C sized explosive death waves. Considering Tech Jacket in-universe happened after Omni-Man, this applies to BoS Mark scaling wise.

Google maps is being a pain in the ass so I'll just use the normal pixelscaling.

23px = 200km

985px = 3716.98113208km

I got similar results using google maps' way to measure distance, but it uses some curvature shit that makes the result higher.

250px = 3716.98113208km

Explosion: 27px = 401.433962265km

200716.981132^3*((27136*1.37895+8649)^(1/2)/13568-93/13568)^2 = 649887022063 tons or 649.88 gigatons of tnt, High 6-C+.

Map

Scan

 

[M3X_2.0]

I could've done something better if google maps wasn't a pain in the ass and if Ryan Ottley knew a bit of geography

 

[Dark-Carioca]

That ain't Ryan's art

Blame Nate Bellegarde

 

[M3X_2.0]

******* Nate Bellegarde

 

[Antvasima]

Google maps is being a pain in the ass so I'll just use the normal pixelscaling.

23px = 200km

985px = 3716.98113208km

I got similar results using google maps' way to measure distance, but it uses some curvature shit that makes the result higher.

250px = 3716.98113208km

Explosion: 27px = 401.433962265km

200716.981132^3*((27136*1.37895+8649)^(1/2)/13568-93/13568)^2 = 649887022063 tons or 649.88 gigatons of tnt, High 6-C+.

Map

Scan

Thank you. Can you add that calculation to a blog please?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Of course

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out. Please link it here afterwards.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Here.

Some possible flaws are the USA I measured in the map and USA from the scan, as I said, geography isn't americans' best the art is a bit wonky and a 100% accurate measure isn't possible.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

Would you be willing to evaluate it Migue?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Durability

• Tanks a large explosion. A shot of a similar explosion (Invincible #1/5)
• Tanks a nuke that was going to cause the largest solar flare in history if it struck the sun (Invincible #52)
• Shrugs off City Destroying energy blasts (Invincible #69)
• Tech Jacket with a 10x Amp survives a nuke that damages a Eurasia sized space ship (Tech Jacket #5)

Now these, most of them are impossible to calc due to lack of good angles, except the city-destroying beam, we could calc the energy to destroy "cities" as she said, and apply that to Mark's durability.

 

[Migue79]

Thank you.

Would you be willing to evaluate it Migue?

Evaluated it.

And now that I am home, I can now calculate some of the AP/Dura feats that are possible/worthwhile. Give me some time, please.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Now these, most of them are impossible to calc due to lack of good angles, except the city-destroying beam, we could calc the energy to destroy "cities" as she said, and apply that to Mark's durability

Would the solar flare thing be at all useable or do we chalk that up as fictional super science?

 

[Huzy]

Biggest Solar Flare on Record

visibleearth.nasa.gov

Is this helpful?

 

[Migue79]

Would the solar flare thing be at all useable or do we chalk that up as fictional super science?

Unsure if it's calcable atm given solar flares involve screwing with the Sun's magnetic field lines (at least a quick Google Search of how solar flares are made tells me that).

Though at the very least it should be greater than the greatest solar flare recorded.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

The Eurasia ship sized explosion feat doesn't seem that complex, we can see one of the massive purple orbs in the page the fireball happens, so from there you just estimate how big the fireball is

Btw Migue I've got a couple of other Invincible feats, if you could evaluate them?
*Dinosaurus' Greenland bombs
*Mark and Anissa lift a ship

Additionally, some stuff from another Image character, Pitt: 1, 2, 3

 

[Migue79]

Okay. I have calculated the AP feats here.

The Durability feats unfortunately are either too difficult to calc (first one we have no way of calculating the size of the explosion, and same thing with the last feat) or don't need to be calced (second one can just be pegged at at least 6-C or 6-A since we know it is a more powerful flare than the most powerful solar flare recorded, and the third one can just be considered a Baseline 7-B feat).

 

[Qawsedf234]

So according to NASA

As the magnetic energy is being released, particles, including electrons, protons, and heavy nuclei, are heated and accelerated in the solar atmosphere. The energy released during a flare is typically on the order of 10^27 ergs per second. Large flares can emit up to 10^32 ergs of energy. This energy is ten million times greater than the energy released from a volcanic explosion. On the other hand, it is less than one-tenth of the total energy emitted by the Sun every second.

So a Solar Flare ranges from 10^20 Joules (6-C) to 10^25 Joules (6-A).

So like, how about this for a rating

Attack Potency: Large Island level (Threw a Golem past the moon at near light speeds) | Continent level (Battled against Conquest and eventually killed him) | Multi-Continent level (Destroyed Viltrum with Omni-Man and Thaedus) | At least Multi-Continent level (After receiving a power boost from Atom Eve, he was capable of fighting on par with Thragg, and eventually defeated him)

Speed: Varies, up to at least Massively Hypersonic (Can fly at 800,000 KPH or mach 671), possibly Massively FTL+ (Comparable to Allen the Alien who can cross inter-stellar distances. Due to the nature of Smart Atoms Mark's speed operates on the same principal as Allen's, increasing proportionally to how fast he's he is moving) | Varies, up to Massively FTL+ (Comparable to Omni-Man) | Varies, up to Massively FTL+ | Varies, up to Massively FTL+ (Kept up with Thragg, who had previously outsped Mark effortlessly)

Lifting Strength: At least Class K (Easily lifted a large pillar, threw a golem past the moon while on Earth) | Class G (Superior to Tech Jacket, who grappled with Null who lifted an entire town) | At least Class G (Stronger than before. Capable of throwing large ships into outer space) | At least Class G, likely Class T (Stronger than before. Likely the most powerful Viltrumite after Thragg, which would make him superior to Anissa and Tech Jacket after his amp)

Striking Strength: Large Island Class | Continental Class | Multi-Continental Class | At least Multi-Continental Class

Durability: Large Island level (An alternate version of Mark survived the Omega Tech Jacket's plasma waves) | Continent level (Withstood a nuclear bomb that would generate the largest solar flare in history. The largest recorded solar flares are 10^32 ergs or 10^25 Joules) | Multi-Continent level (Capable of fighting his physical equals) | At least Multi-Continent level (Fought a prolonged and intense battle with Thragg)

Weaknesses: The Smart Atoms of Viltumites cannot withstand high temperatures for long periods of time, with prolonged exposure heavily weakening his strength and durability. Pinpoint high intensity sound waves can disrupt a Viltrumite like Mark's inner ears and highly sensitize equilibrium, disrupting their flight, causing intense pain or potentially death. Even higher precision waves can induce controlled hallucinations or a coma. The Scourge Virus is a specially engineered virus that infects Viltrumites and severely hampers their strength and invulnerability, usually resulting in death. Mark survived because of his royal bloodline and is now immune to the traditional variant, but there exists a more powerful one. Formerly held back against opponents unless enraged and lacked combat experience. He used to hold back, but now he always "goes for the jugular". The Klaxus Plant will poison and weaken him.

Then for Allen's speed

Varies, up to Massively FTL+ (Allen's reflexes are enhanced directly proportional to his speed. Meaning his reaction speed canonically varies depending on his current speed. Capable of flying inter-stellar and inter-galactic distances)

• Allen's first key scales to Mark's first key and his second key scales to Mark's second or third key. If its the second key I'd recommend (At least Continent level) if we do go with it
• Anissa scales to be above Mark's third key
• Battle Beast scales to Thragg and Thragg scales to be above everyone else more or less
• Tech Jacket needs two keys. The second one just being 10x his previous one. While the first key scales to Invincible due to him nuking two of his clones

Finally Tech Jacket

Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Flight, Enhanced Senses, Energy Projection, Forcefield Creation, Regeneration (Low), Electricity Absorption, Weapon Mastery, Technology Manipulation, Transformation and Weapon Creation (The Tech Jacket can create virtually any weapon that Zack can imagine and will morph itself to accommodate it), The Tech Jacket can conduct “Host Maintenance” which removes and destroys all germs, dirt and bacteria from his body) | All previous to a greater degree. Regeneration (Low Mid, healed from having his heart destroyed)

Attack Potency: Large Island level (Killed two parallel dimension Invincibles by using all of his energy. Can fight with an Adult Viltrumites for some time, although he is inferior to them generally) | Small Country level (Is ten times stronger than before, which would push him to this level)

Speed: Varies, up to Massively FTL+ (Fought evenly with with two parallel versions of Invincible, and due to the nature of Smart Atoms its likely his speed operates on a similar principal. Capable of rapidly flying inter-stellar distances)

Lifting Strength: Class G (While overall weaker, capable of grappling with Null who can lift towns. Can push gigantic space battleships. Capable of throwing space battleships inter-planetary distances) | Class T (Ten times stronger than before, which would push his lifting strength to this class)

Durability: Large Island level (Survived the Omega Tech Jacket's plasma waves) | Small Country level (Survived a nuclear bomb that left a notable hole in a space ship the size of Eurasia. Is ten times more durable than before)

Everyone okay with all of my suggestions? Assuming the calcs are accepted of course.

Plus we can kill two CRT's with one stone since we can handle @The_Impress proposed CRT here as well

 

[Qawsedf234]

Forgot about Omnipotus there

Attack Potency: At least Large Island level (Overpowered Invincible when he was shunted to his original universe. Every able-bodied superhero on Earth during the time of his arrival was insufficient to stop him from reshaping the Earth) | Varies, up to Universe level (Omnipotus gains energy based on the destruction of matter that he can then channel into himself for more power. Given enough time he can destroy planets, then solar systems, and eventually even entire universes)

Speed: Varies, up to Massively FTL+ (Landed multiple blows on Invincible. Fought with dozens of superheroes at once) | Varies, up to Massively FTL+ (Likely superior to his weakened self. Destroyed his home universe over an unknown period of time by using his powers)

Lifting Strength: Unknown. Possibly Class G

Durability: At least Large Island level (Had to be temporarily removed from Earth by teleporting him back to his reality) | Varies, up to Universe level

For the Emperor he honestly needs a lot of work. I have no idea where the Allen statement or the Class Z thing comes from.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Well after reading the four issues that featured the Emperor

• There's no indication he ever fought Allen or Omnipotus
• There's no indication he moved a ship the size of the planet

He should probably just be "At least High 6-C+" or something

Finally Bulletproof needs to be downgraded. He in no way harmed Mark and there is zero reason to scale them in any real capacity.

 

[The_Impress]

My CRT has far more stuff than what is discussed here.

Proposals look fine, but I have a limited understanding of the verse

 

[Dark-Carioca]

So Tech Jacket being Class T would also put the likes of Anissa and stronger viltrumites on that level, no?

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'm not 100% sure. Tech Jacket's amp happens right before Robot takes over the world. If he scales you would need to find evidence after that point.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

I looked away from my project for a second and calculated this

Seems consistent, I think

 

[Qawsedf234]

Okay so the only battles Tech Jacket was in post amp were the fights in issue #142 and #144.

• Issue 142: There's no on panel scans of Tech Jacket fighting Robot's Titanium Alloy models and the one time he fights a recurring background Viltrumite he does no damage to him. At one point him and Eve do go down and find a bunch of Reanimen that could be the Invincible Reanimen, but they easily stomp the entire group.
• Issue 144: His only real appearance is a space shot where he kills a nameless Viltrumite

So he doesn't really do anything that Mark scales to. Its just mostly hearsay, hence the "likely Class T".

If the calc is accepted its more consistent though for the ratings.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Well, he fights people inferior to Mark so he'd scale to that, no? He's easily superior to those Reanimen and those random viltrumites

 

[Qawsedf234]

Well, he fights people inferior to Mark so he'd scale to that, no?

Well the issue is sort of multi-fold

• Tech Jacket struggles with none of his opponents after his amp besides one thing Mark couldn't scale to
• The Reanimen were easily stomped off screen
• Of the three no names he killed one of them with his basic laser and likely overpowered the other two
• The background Viltrumite only tanked an energy shot rather than engage him in a physical contest

The core issue is that Tech Jacket just doesn't fight in a way that Mark can viably scale to post amp. He should be stronger and its likely Mark/Someone else beat him during the final war with the Coalition of Planets, but we just don't have hard evidence in the end. Which is why I said "Likely Class T". Because it is very likely he's stronger, we just can't confirm it.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Fair enough

So I guess this means lesser calcs like the Las Vegas bomb don't need to be calculated, so I wonder, what other calcs are left to make?

 

[Qawsedf234]

• We need a tier for Immortal and Bulletproof. Both of them in no way should scale to Mark or Omni-Man.
• Kid Omni-Man is really wonky and we need to work on how he works out AP wise
• We need a tier for Robot. His normal form is far below Mark and his Volcanic-Titanium alloy form.... is also far below Mark and relies on exploiting a weakness to not die from his hits
• Rexsplode actually needs a rating
• Eve needs a tier. She is not Viltrumite level with her powers and both scans of her being 5-B are either just durability bypassing matter attacks or energy constructs that failed to do anything. Like seriously the Allen scan is him being wrapped in a cocoon that does nothing and the Invincible scan is her hitting him to zero effect.
• Angstrom like Kid Omni-Man is weird
• Outrun can be moved to Wall level or something
• Brit needs an AP tier
• We really need to stop scaling literally everyone to the Viltrum planet busting feat

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I have calculated the AP feats here.

The Durability feats unfortunately are either too difficult to calc (first one we have no way of calculating the size of the explosion, and same thing with the last feat) or don't need to be calced (second one can just be pegged at at least 6-C or 6-A since we know it is a more powerful flare than the most powerful solar flare recorded, and the third one can just be considered a Baseline 7-B feat).

Thank you very much for helping out.

@Jasonsith @Therefir @DemonGodMitchAubin

Would any of you be willing to evaluate the above calculations please?

 

[Antvasima]

I looked away from my project for a second and calculated this

Seems consistent, I think

Can you evaluate this as well, please?

 

[Antvasima]

Qawsedf234:

I think that your suggestions largely make sense. However, I think that we should give the characters up to Relativistic+ speeds combined with Massively FTL+ "hyperspace" jumps.

As for Immortal and Bulletproof, maybe we could scale them from Invincible at the beginning of his career, if the official handbook statistics are similar?

Eve's constructs at the end of the series are at the very least considerably above standard Viltrumite level, but I may misremember.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Immortal shouldn't be much weaker than BoS Mark. Nolan easily killed him but the Immortal was still drawing blood from Omni-Man with his punches.

 

[Hellbeast]

I feel he could get a likely far higher noting that

I also remember he’s mentioned in the guides as not being far off Viltrumites so it could support him being > early Mark

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I mean he was able to draw blood from Omni-Man, which is something even Mark couldn't do when he was trying to subdue him in their fight.

 

[Antvasima]

According to the Invincible handbooks at "Read Comic Online", Invincible in 2006 was class 30, and I think that the series started in 2003. Immortal was rated as "At least class 25", and Bulletproof did not have consistently superhuman strength. He simply absorbs kinetic energy for temporary power-ups.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/a6RmBxdlzuJuDGfR31ajYi3msAmwpPSHfNVaOP-30TCpIhQWHJxPIIxCmiWVmdfskXEISrFtLfY0GKrRxET-emkMioeb46vN5PYe4MJ8I09eTvjDeooxASXy7gywHy578O9iNg=s1600

Omni-Man was above class 100 btw.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Robot's Volcanic-Titanium armor could scale to around BoS Mark since he was able to fight back the Invincible Reanimen for a short time.

 

[Qawsedf234]

As for Immortal and Bulletproof, maybe we could scale them from Invincible at the beginning of his career

I'm not for either honestly. Even for BoS Mark its pretty heavily implied in Invincible #16 that he's beyond Immortal since him and Omni-Man rolled everyone and in the reboot arc a far weaker Mark still did much better than Immortal. Bulletproof just in general doesn't have anything good scaling wise afaik.

There's just a rather consistent large physical gap between Mark and every other Earthbound Superhero besides maybe Set and Tech Jacket.

The only other idea I really have is scale them from this Black Sampson quote, otherwise the best they really have is varying 8-C showings.

 

[Antvasima]

If Invincible was exactly class 30 after his powers had grown for a few years, and Immortal was "At least class 25", I think that they would be comparable, but Bulletproof is allegedly not superhumanly strong without absorbing energy in the first place, so he is harder to tier properly.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

He did bother Dinosaurus and similarly powerful characters (I take it we all place Dinosaurus as a high tier character) so Bulletproof is somewhere up there.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. So almost Dinosaurus level at his peak after absorbing lots of kinetic energy then?