Invincible Downgrade

[Dark-Carioca]

Didn't the handbooks severely downplay most lifting strength values for the characters?

Allen and Mark are 30 tonners but only early on from what I'm seeing, it does say they get much stronger down the line. There probably are feats that would put them above that in their earliest appearances, though.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Also, between issues 34 and 35 Mark says he has been working out while fighting Rampage, who he claims would've kicked his butt a couple of months ago

So that's another boost to take into account, I suppose

 

[Hellbeast]

Also, between issues 34 and 35 Mark says he has been working out while fighting Rampage, who he claims would've kicked his butt a couple of months ago

So that's another boost to take into account, I suppose

Yeah Mark definitely has several big boosts over the course of the series so the low stuff could be an estimation of their early showings

I dropped my point after the Allen scan. Smart Atoms make them relatively fast depending on how fast they're moving. If Mark is flying at MFTL+ speed he'll have MFTL+ reaction times, but if Omni-Man is flying at 230,000 MPH he'll have reactions for that speed.

So would that mean he gets Variable Speed

Maybe like “Varible, as slow as MHS but can reach Massively FTL+ when in space” with a note explaining the smart atoms thing below (so as to not over stuff the speed section)

 

[Antvasima]

Allen and Mark are 30 tonners but only early on from what I'm seeing, it does say they get much stronger down the line. There probably are feats that would put them above that in their earliest appearances, though.

Yes, but weren't even the strongest characters placed at around 150-200 tons or so, despite having enormously greater feats than that? As such, I think that the Invinsible handbooks downplayed the characters' full power levels, much like the Marvel handbooks.

 

[Antvasima]

However, relativistic speed, with Massively FTL+ hyperspace travel, as the handbooks say, seems to make sense to me.

Anyway, is this a reasonable suggestion?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yes, but weren't even the strongest characters placed at around 150-200 tons or so, despite having enormously greater feats than that?

Omni-Man, Allen, and Battle Beast had rather low ratings. But the handbook came out years before Battle Beast got any relevant scaling, years before Omni-Man got any notable feats, and before Allen's zenkai boost.

So I wouldn't label it as lowballing rather than it just being released before anything impressive happened.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Anyway, is this a reasonable suggestion?

Space Racer makes it a bit weird.

Either we do as you said and give them Rel+ reactions with hyperspace travel or do what was previously suggested and giving them varying speed ratings due to their reactions being context sensitive.

 

[Antvasima]

Omni-Man, Allen, and Battle Beast had rather low ratings. But the handbook came out years before Battle Beast got any relevant scaling, years before Omni-Man got any notable feats, and before Allen's zenkai boost.

So I wouldn't label it as lowballing rather than it just being released before anything impressive happened.

Well, I think that the practice of the Marvel handbooks was likely copied in this regard, but that's me.

 

[Antvasima]

Space Racer makes it a bit weird.

Either we do as you said and give them Rel+ reactions with hyperspace travel or do what was previously suggested and giving them varying speed ratings due to their reactions being context sensitive.

Well, given that some of them are stated outright to use hyperspace travel, it seems reliable enough to me.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

So what we decide on Omni Man's feat?

 

[Antvasima]

Which one?

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Alright, did this feat and some other stuff. It kind of fits the downgrade theme of this thread, at least the last part.

Btw, should we have "Rage Power" on Mark's page? He actually seems to get stronger the angrier he gets, particularly against Conquest.

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe "Possibly Rage Power" then?

 

[Antvasima]

Btw: Thank you for helping out with calculations.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

I've been busy working for a presentation I have to do next Monday so I try to help with whatever free time I have, like I did with the Pitt calculations I recently made

 

[Qawsedf234]

So what we decide on Omni Man's feat?

Varying speed and hyperspace travel.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Varying speed and hyperspace travel.

You mean, how travel speed doesn't scale to combat speed?

 

[Qawsedf234]

travel speed doesn't scale to combat speed?

They scale to be Rel+ when moving that fast but have hyperspace flight abilities. At least that's what Ant wants.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Alright, did this feat and some other stuff. It kind of fits the downgrade theme of this thread, at least the last part.

We could scale some of the Viltrumites to TechJacket's Eurasia nuke feat.

 

[Hellbeast]

How good is that feat curiously

 

[Qawsedf234]

How good is that feat curiously

Idk

We can probably scale a lot of the upper Viltrumites to Tech Jacket though, considering how easily he got rolled by them. Although he got a 10x amp before that nuke so he'd only scale to 1/10th of whatever the result would be.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Don't forget about the Las Vegas feat (which I estimate would be City level to Mountain level), though that happens in Issue 80 and the ship feat is from Issue 45. Mark gets stronger somewhere in between, I'm sure.

 

[Antvasima]

If somebody links evidence for all of the best available feats, I can ask some calc group members to help us out.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Another calc done. This is probably the last for now (from me), since it was pretty straightforward.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. Your help is appreciated.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Always happy to help

 

[Qawsedf234]

If somebody links evidence for all of the best available feats, I can ask some calc group members to help us out.

Strength

• Null lifted and threw a Kansas town at Tech Jacket - Even if the AP wouldn't be a lot, the weight would likely upscale the majority of the Mid to Upper Tiers of the cast considering that's base Tech Jacket.
• Mark Redirects a giant meteor (The Pact #2/Era would be BoS Mark)
• A golem forms from the above meteor, and Mark chucks half of it past the moon (The Pact #2) - This is probably the best feat for BoS Mark

Durability

• Tanks a large explosion. A shot of a similar explosion (Invincible #1/5)
• Tanks a nuke that was going to cause the largest solar flare in history if it struck the sun (Invincible #52)
• Shrugs off City Destroying energy blasts (Invincible #69)
• Tech Jacket with a 10x Amp survives a nuke that damages a Eurasia sized space ship (Tech Jacket #5)

 

[Hellbeast]

I also recall a statement Thragg and Beast could have destroyed the planet they were fighting in overtime which helps support the Multi-Continent+ stuff

 

[Qawsedf234]

I also recall a statement Thragg and Beast could have destroyed the planet they were fighting in overtime which helps support the Multi-Continent+ stuff

Battle Beast in issue #115 said "This planet will be torn apart by the fury of our clashing... I will allow nothing to steal that from me."

But then after multiple days of unending constant fighting the planet was intact albeit it suffered a lot of collateral civilization damage. Seems more like a hyperbolic statement from BB than a legitmate power thing.

Omnipotus' has two or three surface wiping statements that would scale however, since Dinosauros killed him with no issue.

 

[Hellbeast]

Battle Beast in issue #115 said "This planet will be torn apart by the fury of our clashing... I will allow nothing to steal that from me."

But then after multiple days of unending constant fighting the planet was intact/not horribly damaged.

Fairly true, just felt like it deserved a mention

Omnipotus' has two or three surface wiping statements that would scale however, since Dinosauros killed him with no issue.

Dinosaurus was based

 

[Qawsedf234]

So the surface level statements that I know of

• Null one shots a giant that was going consume a planet and everyone on it. There's no timeframe given though and its unknown how it was going to do that or the method of doing it
• Omnipotus states he can reshape worlds and devour a planet's lifeforce though his next appearance heavily implies it still takes time for him to do so. Though do note that he did physically knock out Brit, which is a rather impressive feat
• According to the guidebook Omnipotus' power relies on destroying matter and absorbing the feedback, which then allows him to absorb more matter. So while he reaches Tier 5 and eventually 3-A he didn't do so when he invaded Earth

Also I found a new feat we can use. Brit and Invincible survived attacks from the Omega Tech Jacket (Brit 2007 #10) which produced like, 7-A or 6-C sized explosive death waves. Considering Tech Jacket in-universe happened after Omni-Man, this applies to BoS Mark scaling wise.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Dinosaurus was based

wha?

 

[Hellbeast]

So the surface level statements that I know of

• Null one shots a giant that was going consume a planet and everyone on it. There's no timeframe given though and its unknown how it was going to do that or the method of doing it

True but it could help

Omnipotus states he can reshape worlds and devour a planet's lifeforce though his next appearance heavily implies it still takes time for him to do so. Though do note that he did physically knock out Brit, which is a rather impressive feat

Bri”ish super hero is strong
But yeah Omni wiping world’s overtime seems consistent (would be get a variable tier?)

• According to the guidebook Omnipotus' power relies on destroying matter and absorbing the feedback, which then allows him to absorb more matter. So while he reaches Tier 5 and eventually 3-A he didn't do so when he invaded Earth

Also I found a new feat we can use. Brit and Invincible survived attacks from the Omega Tech Jacket (Brit 2007 #10) which produced like, 7-A or 6-C sized explosive death waves. Considering Tech Jacket in-universe happened after Omni-Man, this applies to BoS Mark scaling wise.

Yeah this works (this might be a priority o calc)

wha?

you heard me

 

[Dark-Carioca]

I read you, rather

I'm just not sure what that means xD

Brit and Invincible survived attacks from the Omega Tech Jacket (Brit 2007 #10) which produced like, 7-A or 6-C sized explosive death waves.

How would one calc that? It seems like parts of the US are being melted.

 

[Hellbeast]

I read you, rather

I'm just not sure what that means xD

It means he’s based smh

How would one calc that? It seems like parts of the US are being melted.

Perhaps we could ang size the explosions and Account t for the melting somehow?

Former is likely much better

 

[Qawsedf234]

How would one calc that? It seems like parts of the US are being melted.

The next page shows people reduced to charred skeletons. So probably not melting as much as scorching.

 

[Antvasima]

Strength

• Null lifted and threw a Kansas town at Tech Jacket - Even if the AP wouldn't be a lot, the weight would likely upscale the majority of the Mid to Upper Tiers of the cast considering that's base Tech Jacket.
• Mark Redirects a giant meteor (The Pact #2/Era would be BoS Mark)
• A golem forms from the above meteor, and Mark chucks half of it past the moon (The Pact #2) - This is probably the best feat for BoS Mark

Durability

• Tanks a large explosion. A shot of a similar explosion (Invincible #1/5)
• Tanks a nuke that was going to cause the largest solar flare in history if it struck the sun (Invincible #52)
• Shrugs off City Destroying energy blasts (Invincible #69)
• Tech Jacket with a 10x Amp survives a nuke that damages a Eurasia sized space ship (Tech Jacket #5)

Thank you.

@DemonGodMitchAubin @Ugarik @Migue79 @Therefir @Wokistan @Mr._Bambu

Would any of you be willing to calculate the above Invincible comic book series feats please?

 

[Antvasima]

@M3X @KLOL506

Your help would also be appreciated.

 

[Migue79]

I can calc these later on today if nobody else is willing to.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for helping out. It is greatly appreciated.