Invincible Downgrade

[Confluctor]

Shouldn't Invincible logically scale to base Spawn? After all, Spawn being in is canon.

The creators specifically said that when these characters crossover, they aren't the same power levels. So spawn was not 4B as he WAS NOT the spawn we know (and love). Basically an inferior copy.

 

[Cyberblader90]

The creators specifically said that when these characters crossover, they aren't the same power levels.

do you have this statement

 

[Confluctor]

do you have this statement

I will look for it.

Its also noted on the image comics page.

 

[sanicspood]

id love that scan please

 

[Confluctor]

Every book at Image exists in its own separate universe.

each of the books in handled by (or overseen by) one creator and it's their vision

Source: https://www.cbr.com/issue-14-2


In case you don't know who Erik Larsen is, he has been with Image Comics since the early 90s, marking him as one of the oldest creators at the company. Unlike most creators there, he has held high positions within the company. From 2004 to 2008, he even served the publisher of Image Comics, taking responsibility for most titles produced by the company.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Erik Larsen has repeatedly stated that the Image characters cross over with each other, but it does not affect their individual storylines. For example, the Savage Dragon's original timeline's Earth has long since been destroyed, without that it affected any other Image characters than his own in the slightest.

As such, this follows our regular crossover rules, and the characters do not scale from each other.

We should probably mention that in notes sections for the Image Comics, Spawn, and Invincible verse pages.

 

[Hellbeast]

I have a nasty feeling that Spawn is heavily outdated due to the severe lack of supporters and knowledgeables.

If memory serves the revisions were in 2018 so I’m sure we’re missing tons

 

[BruhMomento0260]

Quick question but isn't Mark like a Senior of high school or something? Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought he was a teenager. Why does his Profile say early 20s?

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Quick question but isn't Mark like a Senior or high school or something? Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought he was a teenager. Why does his Profile say early 20s?

The majority of the story occurs after he's graduated high school. Dunno if it's during his early 20s though. Most likely but I don't think they really give concrete ages or dates in the comic from what I remember.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with a downgrade revision in itself, but can somebody list all of the calculation blogs for this feat, so I can ask some calc group members to evaluate which one that we should use please?

Basically, it is perfectly fine if we use an accepted calculation blog for the planet-busting feat to rescale the characters, but if there are several calculations with different results for the feat in question, we need to decide which one that we should use.

 

[ByAsura]

These are the two currently discussed. We've debunked the rest. I still disagree with DMUA's logic of the mass ejection being entirely the 3 of them, but others should give their opinions on it.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

@DemonGodMitchAubin @Mr._Bambu @Armorchompy @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Therefir @Ugarik @Wokistan

Would any of you be willing to evaluate which of the two following calculations of the same feat that is most reliable to use please?

Invincible: Nolan, Mark and Thaddeus commit severe TV show spoilers

vsbattles.fandom.com

Destruction of Viltrum - Invincible

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

ByAsura’s pulverization version looks better IMO and should be the one used, I’d much rather use pulverization than KE in this calc

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out. That is probably fine to use then.

Is somebody willing to apply these revisions to the Invincible pages?

 

[Antvasima]

Please remember to carefully read through and follow the instructions in our Common Editing Mistakes page, so no badly structured edits are made, and extensive cleanup work will not be necessary.

Since you will change the statistics for characters, also remember to update the tier categories at the bottoms of the profile pages.

Also, when you apply this revision, please insert a link to this thread into the edit summary boxes, so your edits are not mistaken for vandalism.

 

[Antvasima]

In addition, you should obviously link to the accepted calculation in the relevant character profile pages (Invincible, Omni-Man, and Thaedus), as well as in the verse page for the series.

 

[ByAsura]

We should probably wait a little longer for some more input. DMUA is very insistent on KE, and Qwasedf seems to have some opinion in the same direction.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Qawsedf234 is not a calc group member though.

 

[ByAsura]

But he could still have some input on the validity of KE.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. That is true.

 

[InfiniteCosmology]

Honestly, I don't see why we didn't outright downgrade this feat quite a while ago.

Thaddeus orders Space Racer to fire his gun, a weapon that can obliterate Viltrumite War Invincible-level characters and blast through stars, at Viltrum to destabilize its core. If the core were to become stable, they'd die on impact. After the impact, we see secondary explosions all over Viltrum's surface, and the planet takes time to break apart and explode once they pass through the core. In real life, planets like Earth do not have any internal mechanisms to violently explode, but this is fiction.

So all in all, Invincible, Mark and Thaddeus demolished Viltrum's already unstable core in perfect sequence, causing the entire planet to be destroyed. The fact that there's absolutely no Planet level feats or statements (literal or non-civilization statements, anyway) in the series further reinforces my point.

I did a calculation of the crater the three made, which gets Multi-Continent level results per person. It hasn't been evaluated, but I'm hoping this thread will garner some traction because I've been asking for a while (so far two staff members have commented).

Also, I'm pretty sure this GBE is wrong. Surface gravity is actually inversely proportional to radius when density is fixed, not directly proportional to mass. Gliese 581 and Jupiter (or just gas giants, for that matter) are very good examples of this.

Seems reasonable.

 

[InfiniteCosmology]

Yes. That is true.

Hmm

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it is up to the calc group to decide, not the rest of our staff, according to our rules, unless other staff members have information about the rationales for a few in themselves being false or somesuch, but it doesn't hurt to be polite.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The planet was actually in the Virgo Super Cluster, which is 65 million light-years away.

Using the guidebook is a double edged sword, since it states that Omni-Man used space-warps to go FTL, meaning its questionable if this scales to their in-atmosphere or combat speed.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

tv show spoilers

I will not be in this thread, I wish ye luck

 

[Antvasima]

Using the guidebook is a double edged sword, since it states that Omni-Man used space-warps to go FTL, meaning its questionable if this scales to their in-atmosphere or combat speed.

That is a very good point. We should preferably separate their flight/travel and combat speeds then.

 

[Danny1112]

Also, I'm pretty sure this GBE is wrong. Surface gravity is actually inversely proportional to radius when density is fixed, not directly proportional to mass. Gliese 581 and Jupiter (or just gas giants, for that matter) are very good examples of this.

Actually, surface gravity is directly proportional to mass and inversely proportional to radius.

 

[Antvasima]

But he could still have some input on the validity of KE.

@Qawsedf234

Do you have any further input here?

 

[Antvasima]

You as well @ByAsura .

 

[Qawsedf234]

Do you have any further input here?

I'm fine with DMUA version. But if we want to go with Asura's one I won't be against it.

Though personal I think its KE.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the reply.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

@DemonGodMitchAubin @Mr._Bambu @Armorchompy @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Therefir @Ugarik @Wokistan

Would any of you be willing to evaluate which of the two following calculations of the same feat that is most reliable to use please?

Invincible: Nolan, Mark and Thaddeus commit severe TV show spoilers

vsbattles.fandom.com

Destruction of Viltrum - Invincible

vsbattles.fandom.com

@Damage3245 @KieranH10 @Migue79

Would you be willing to help out here as well please?

 

[KieranH10]

I mean, they both look fine math-wise. The first one seems to make sense since you can do the fragments and crater feats in one singular attack. But if you only hit with the energy to create the crater, then the fragments wouldn't be at that scale since less energy would be involved.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. So which one is preferable then?

Mitch preferred ByAsura's version.

 

[KieranH10]

ByAsuras calc seems to give a source on the surface gravity of Viltrum, I believe one can get an actual size of the planet from this, if both calcs were fully adjusted to this I'd personally say both were valid tbh, one is calculating the crater upon impact and one is calculating the fragments that shot out of the other side, two feats in one so honestly they're both as valid as one another imo.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the evaluation.

 

[Danny1112]

Ok, so I just got time to read this and I don't get what the op presented that everyone is like "I agree". How does an unstable core help them in that situation? Not only that, but the lack of information of the type instability that occurred. Going by the feats of the beam, the core would just have a very deep hole in it and that wouldn't even cause an instability since materials along the area of the hole would just be attracted to fill the gap caused by the beam and the fact planetary bodies don't depend on anything except their mass to be stable. The only argument I see here is the reduction of gravitational binding energy of the planet since mass is directly proportional to gravity. And I don't get how we came to the conclusion that because Thaddeus said they "Could die from the impact" translates to "They're incapable of destroying the planet" even assuming we were to take that as the meaning. Why are we taking Thaddeus statement as "Literal" when there are arguments that invalidate his statement? They made a hole in the core and that somehow makes the planet's whole gravity nullified? Making it easier for them to shatter the planet?. "It's fictional" is a very poor argument when this can just be regarded as a poorly constructed plot point and also the fact that even fiction follows a logic even if it contradicts ours but in this case there's no buildup or a base that establishes the materials in verse to function that way. It would be hard to argue if it was shown or we saw what the beam actually did to the core, but all we have is a "Statement" with no substantial backing to even take it as literal.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

The Multi-Continent level calc was approved, when do we start updating the Invincible pages? Additionally, and I know this isn't a CRT, we should probably start adding stuff for Lifting Strength since there are quite a few good feats for that.

Also, someone should do something about Pitt's page since it's scaling off some evil AU Invincible but no feats of his own. I mean Dave Keown created him, worked on much of the Peter David run for Hulk in the 90s and did the Pitt/Hulk crossover and honestly that has more validity than Pitt scaling off Invincible lol

 

[Rez]

Also rex has an unknown in his durability and speed that needs to be fixed

 

[Qawsedf234]

They made a hole in the core and that somehow makes the planet's whole gravity nullified?

Like with Namek and some other planet destruction incidents they destabilized the core and caused a chain reaction explosion.

when do we start updating the Invincible pages?

We can do so now or we can wait to find a usable tier for earlier Invincible forms then update everyone.