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BRUUUH, now I noticed that Saitama has a similar NPI due affecting the mental space of phoenix man mind LOOL
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Infinite Zamasu and God's Revision
- Thread starter Rabbit2002
- Start date
- Status
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Conceptual one punch man-
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this would scale to their xenoverse versions
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...dabura effected him...
ABSTRACT LEVEL CORRUPTION
Rez
He/Him- 4,816
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Which will further scale to heros
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It scales to Xenoverse Fu at least...
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I was just joking-
we may have a mismatch
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Shush ple-
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shush krillin-
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when ctr for infinite speed
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Let's not derail (even if we already are derailing but meh)
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as escalalian goku vegeta and trunks and zamas
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no but maybe we can get immeasurable speed zeno
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I PM'd SSJRyu and he agrees with AE but he's unsure about Type 4
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I agree with AE, but type 4 Acausality I'm iffy about.
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Agree with AE, disagree with type 4, type 1 is fine alongside limited negation.
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ill say it again, i agree with ae, dont agree with type 4 aca, im fine with acasuality negation
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AE standards go brrrrrrr
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One question why is the law and order stuff considered flowery language.
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Because Gowasu statement was like ''zamasu is trying to become the justice and the order itself'' which is flowery words, the context is just zamasu killing all the mortals cuz as a god, he consider himself as the absolute justice
My_area
He/Him- 1,239
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Lets see how this is
However I do agree with absorption since he is literally absorbing and merging with the universe.
These were interesting arguments for sure
Actually justification in AP department is wrong,it isn't stated anywhere in the scan that he is overriding the law and order of the universe. Gowasu just states that he is becoming order and justice itself which just means that he is going to become his own version of justice and order which he will impose in the universe.It doesn't say that Infinite Zamasu will bypass and remove the law of the universe,so that needs to be changed.
Actually that isn't true, Infinite Zamasu is culmination of him trying to execute the order and justice on others(his will) which then manifest on the form of red energy which then absorbs and takes over the universe. So his will is what caused Zamasu to cast over the form of the god and manifest into red energy but it isn't his will which is fusing with the universe but rather his energy which merges with the universe but the Toei timeline doesn't explain the sequence in much detail since its their job to summarize the event.
However I do agree with absorption since he is literally absorbing and merging with the universe.
Since I do not know about Shinza or the context surrounding its law of the universe so I will not comment on this.He didn't become law of the universe as in concept of law of the universe like his belief dictated but law of the universe in the sense of him enforcing his laws and beliefs in form of the universe. As I explained in the above point,Infinite Zamasu is result of his will of executing his justice over everyone which was then done in form of the energy. Yes if Zeno doesn't have conceptual or law EE that means that Infinite Zamasu didn't become the concept of law itself hence not being able to fulfill the conditions of AE type 1. Infinite Zamasu is universe itself along with his rules and laws which was gone as Infinite Zamasu no longer lived. I do agree that his AP justification certainly needs to be reworded because as I have shown,the events go differently than what the wording implies.
They dont exist outside the mortal logic,they just dont work according to the logic of what mortals like Future Trunks thought(erasing someone in past wouldn't affect someone in Future Trunks timeline) because apparently killing one god has a effect on space and time(which was shown by Beerus hakaing present Zamasu creating time ring where Zamssu never died) but it was never elaborated as to why thats the case.So not sure how its creating paradox.Though its only for the gods and not anyone with god ki since they are still mortals.So I am not sure about acausality type 4 but at most I can see a possibly acausality type 4.
You are welcome
These were interesting arguments for sure
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ibi
Zencha9
They/Them- 4,234
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We have transdual characters being able to do stuff like win i don't really see the issue
Rez
He/Him- 4,816
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Lets see how this is
Actually justification in AP department is wrong,it isn't stated anywhere in the scan that he is overriding the law and order of the universe. Gowasu just states that he is becoming order and justice itself which just means that he is going to become his own version of justice and order which he will impose in the universe.It doesn't say that Infinite Zamasu will bypass and remove the law of the universe,so that needs to be changed.
Actually that isn't true, Infinite Zamasu is culmination of him trying to execute the order and justice on others(his will) which then manifest on the form of red energy which then absorbs and takes over the universe. So his will is what caused Zamasu to cast over the form of the god and manifest into red energy but it isn't his will which is fusing with the universe but rather his energy which merges with the universe but the Toei timeline doesn't explain the sequence in much detail since its their job to summarize the event.
However I do agree with absorption since he is literally absorbing and merging with the universe.
Since I do not know about Shinza or the context surrounding its law of the universe so I will not comment on this.He didn't become law of the universe as in concept of law of the universe like his belief dictated but law of the universe in the sense of him enforcing his laws and beliefs in form of the universe. As I explained in the above point,Infinite Zamasu is result of his will of executing his justice over everyone which was then done in form of the energy. Yes if Zeno doesn't have conceptual or law EE that means that Infinite Zamasu didn't become the concept of law itself hence not being able to fulfill the conditions of AE type 1. Infinite Zamasu is universe itself along with his rules and laws which was gone as Infinite Zamasu no longer lived. I do agree that his AP justification certainly needs to be reworded because as I have shown,the events go differently than what the wording implies.
They dont exist outside the mortal logic,they just dont work according to the logic of what mortals like Future Trunks thought(erasing someone in past wouldn't affect someone in Future Trunks timeline) because apparently killing one god has a effect on space and time(which was shown by Beerus hakaing present Zamasu creating time ring where Zamssu never died) but it was never elaborated as to why thats the case.So not sure how its creating paradox.Though its only for the gods and not anyone with god ki since they are still mortals.So I am not sure about acausality type 4 but at most I can see a possibly acausality type 4.
You are welcome
These were interesting arguments for sure
For god's sake will it hurt to read the thread and you don't need to be a concept in order to qualify for ae type 1
azontr
He/Him- 40,519
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Rabbit2002
She/Her- 2,631
- 1,404
- Thread starter
- #229
About law manipulation and "become justice and order itself", I don't understand this as flowery language in any way
It's certainly not literal, like being the concept of justice or something like that. But it's not without meaning that we ignore it and all the surrounding context. Infinite zamasu is Zamasu's will, will is someone's desires and decisions, in this context it is Zamasu's desire to make himself justice, about "justice" it is not literal, just what he admits is justice as the Universe itself, its laws, knowledge, and power. That's the whole reason why IZ (Zamasu's will) is trying to devour the entire universe, turning his form into what he considers justice Aka become universe (the IZ we see in the anime) and throw away the old form of a god (Fusion zamasu). His will contains and shapes the universe which is literally his form, and the whole content of his will is his justice which is the law of the universe (yes reality warpin which is already listed on his Profile). Mortal zero plan is simply the last step of his plan, it also makes it clear why the first thing he does is not kill everyone he meets
It is just flowery language if we say Fusion zamasu declares itself to be justice, universe bla bla. But IZ, who claims to be Gowasu who is the most trustworthy and knowledgeable about what Zamasu is, he only considers Fusion zamasu and previous forms as what it really is, not zamasu's own justice as Zamasu said
It's certainly not literal, like being the concept of justice or something like that. But it's not without meaning that we ignore it and all the surrounding context. Infinite zamasu is Zamasu's will, will is someone's desires and decisions, in this context it is Zamasu's desire to make himself justice, about "justice" it is not literal, just what he admits is justice as the Universe itself, its laws, knowledge, and power. That's the whole reason why IZ (Zamasu's will) is trying to devour the entire universe, turning his form into what he considers justice Aka become universe (the IZ we see in the anime) and throw away the old form of a god (Fusion zamasu). His will contains and shapes the universe which is literally his form, and the whole content of his will is his justice which is the law of the universe (yes reality warpin which is already listed on his Profile). Mortal zero plan is simply the last step of his plan, it also makes it clear why the first thing he does is not kill everyone he meets
It is just flowery language if we say Fusion zamasu declares itself to be justice, universe bla bla. But IZ, who claims to be Gowasu who is the most trustworthy and knowledgeable about what Zamasu is, he only considers Fusion zamasu and previous forms as what it really is, not zamasu's own justice as Zamasu said
Rabbit2002
She/Her- 2,631
- 1,404
- Thread starter
- #230
Lets see how this is
Actually justification in AP department is wrong,it isn't stated anywhere in the scan that he is overriding the law and order of the universe. Gowasu just states that he is becoming order and justice itself which just means that he is going to become his own version of justice and order which he will impose in the universe.It doesn't say that Infinite Zamasu will bypass and remove the law of the universe,so that needs to be changed.
Actually that isn't true, Infinite Zamasu is culmination of him trying to execute the order and justice on others(his will) which then manifest on the form of red energy which then absorbs and takes over the universe. So his will is what caused Zamasu to cast over the form of the god and manifest into red energy but it isn't his will which is fusing with the universe but rather his energy which merges with the universe but the Toei timeline doesn't explain the sequence in much detail since its their job to summarize the event.
However I do agree with absorption since he is literally absorbing and merging with the universe.
Since I do not know about Shinza or the context surrounding its law of the universe so I will not comment on this.He didn't become law of the universe as in concept of law of the universe like his belief dictated but law of the universe in the sense of him enforcing his laws and beliefs in form of the universe. As I explained in the above point,Infinite Zamasu is result of his will of executing his justice over everyone which was then done in form of the energy. Yes if Zeno doesn't have conceptual or law EE that means that Infinite Zamasu didn't become the concept of law itself hence not being able to fulfill the conditions of AE type 1. Infinite Zamasu is universe itself along with his rules and laws which was gone as Infinite Zamasu no longer lived. I do agree that his AP justification certainly needs to be reworded because as I have shown,the events go differently than what the wording implies.
They dont exist outside the mortal logic,they just dont work according to the logic of what mortals like Future Trunks thought(erasing someone in past wouldn't affect someone in Future Trunks timeline) because apparently killing one god has a effect on space and time(which was shown by Beerus hakaing present Zamasu creating time ring where Zamssu never died) but it was never elaborated as to why thats the case.So not sure how its creating paradox.Though its only for the gods and not anyone with god ki since they are still mortals.So I am not sure about acausality type 4 but at most I can see a possibly acausality type 4.
You are welcome
These were interesting arguments for sure
Sorry because this thread like Hell for who read it. But yeah you are right except we don't nead AE because He must conceptual or law. Only because IZ is pure will of zamasu (IZ's form is universe, law,... As his justice he want to become)
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IZ is just Zamasu's will, no need to make it more complicated than it is
Rabbit2002
She/Her- 2,631
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- Thread starter
- #232
Yeah
It just it
Things like universe itself is nothing but extensions of new form (old form is Fusion zamasu)
My_area
He/Him- 1,239
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It would hurt me in this case because I was only interested in commenting on what OP said,I didn't want to go read 3 pages worth of what people said just to comment on the matter.Thats all.As for what you said,okay.
Thank you for understanding. I believe IZ isn't just pure will but will which manifested itself in the form of energy which assumed its form as incorporeal being
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Abstract Existence is the ability to embody an abstraction, such as a concept, thought, or information, and being immortal thanks to it.
Zamasu is absolutely not an abstract being. "Overriding Justice and Order" is all BS, he didn't override anything, he just is everything because he merged with everything. Not only that, he has 0 feats besides making a few holes in the ground and being erased by Zeno, which only further proves he didn't override justice and order, because as far as order goes, Zeno is #1 in any universe, and he proved just that when Goku summoned him.
Zamasu is absolutely not an abstract being. "Overriding Justice and Order" is all BS, he didn't override anything, he just is everything because he merged with everything. Not only that, he has 0 feats besides making a few holes in the ground and being erased by Zeno, which only further proves he didn't override justice and order, because as far as order goes, Zeno is #1 in any universe, and he proved just that when Goku summoned him.
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We already explained this, justice and order aren't the arguments for AE
Please read threads before commenting
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Only other thing I've read was it was his "will", which is an equally bad take and also has nothing backing it up besides Gowasu's conjecture...and still getting immediately erased.
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IZ being Zamasu's will /consciousness would qualify for AE, just not a conceptual one.
" It's a bad take" Isn't a debunk
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Boundless (scales to Donald Trump and other politicians who are above every fictional verse due to being real)
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Nothing of the sort is happening here. Only Zamasu's body was destroyed. His soul was not. This is just his incorporeal form spreading throughout the universe and having the power to enact his will. If I was super strong and somehow spread throughout the universe, I could also make my wish of killing all mortals a reality, which is what it means in this context.
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