Improving contents of Powers & Abilities pages

[Elizhaa]

Organic Manipulation always seems like a subset of Matter Manipulation for what I saw in fictional stories. I presume most pages have it for such reasons. I think Organic Manipulation could become a redirect of Matter Manipulation.

 

[Antoniofer]

Organic Manipulation always seems like a subset of Matter Manipulation for what I saw in fictional stories. I presume most pages have it for such reasons. I think Organic Manipulation could become a redirect of Matter Manipulation.

If want to power gone then it may be the best option, yes. Personally, I would make Matter Manip as the umbrella power to cover the manipulation of specific types of matter, such plastic, sugar, ink and such, so we arent forced to create (or discuss the creation) of such specific powers.

 

[Elizhaa]

If want to power gone then it may be the best option, yes. Personally, I would make Matter Manip as the umbrella power to cover the manipulation of specific types of matter, such plastic, sugar, ink and such, so we arent forced to create (or discuss the creation) of such specific powers.

Looking back, I think both could work if the power is to be removed.

 

[Lou_change]

Perhaps a note like: To avoid redundancy manipulating certain substances that doesn’t fall under other powers is matter manipulation however you should list the substance\s if that is the case.

 

[Lou_change]

Oh bobsican your thoughts?

 

[Bobsican]

Honestly I think that Organic and Biological Manip overlap too much with each other meaning-wise to the point that reworks based around who's being targeted is easy to misunderstand, and so I think they should just be merged and splitted into types if anything.

Matter manip for manipulating random kinds of matter is also quite forced, not all powers require something to link to, stuff like Paint Manip can just be mentioned without a link, powers of that kind are pretty self-explanatory either way and linking to matter manip for them is also misleading as it'd imply that someone that can manipulate oil can manipulate the matter it's made of.

 

[Antoniofer]

Splitting into types is not really necessary, either link it to matter manip or do not link it to nything (given how people always like to associte abilities with pages, I find this option unlikely, and iven the time, au user or group of users will be asking for x power to be made). I wouldnt not give someone biological manipulation for manipulating stuff as oil, ink, honey and other similar stuff, it does not really associate with that power beyong it involve cabon-based targets.

 

[Lou_change]

Yes but people want to have powers link some where and unless we agree to make the weird object manipulation page people will link strange powers to the closest thing that they find covering people in stone and list is as petrifying for example

cabon-based

Organic compound - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Antoniofer]

Well, manipulating ink is definetively not bio manip, so if we do not link it to matter manip, theres no other current existing power similar enough, then you or someone else suggest creating a page for ink manip, and then someone else suggest creating oil manip, and so on; thats why I suggested creating the organic manip, so it can be used as umbrella power for all those powers, since people was satisfied with linking it to matter manip, as you are now.

 

[Lou_change]

Most are of biological origin very old remains or product of a biological being it should include their remains and products.

 

[Antvasima]

Organic Manipulation always seems like a subset of Matter Manipulation for what I saw in fictional stories. I presume most pages have it for such reasons. I think Organic Manipulation could become a redirect of Matter Manipulation.

This seems like a good idea to me.

Perhaps a note like: To avoid redundancy manipulating certain substances that doesn’t fall under other powers is matter manipulation however you should list the substance\s if that is the case.

I think that this also seems like a good idea, if you mean that the individual powers and abilities sections should always mention if the matter manipulation is limited to a specific type or types.

 

[Lou_change]

I think that this also seems like a good idea, if you mean that the individual powers and abilities sections should always mention if the matter manipulation is limited to a specific type or types.

Yes that is what I meant.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Then I agree with your suggestion.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I think we should change our image and quote from the Law Manipulation page to this which is a much better description

"Solomon from Die as the Grandmaster can alter the laws of physics, magic and the Game/world"

 

[Zaratthustra]

Looks better than what we have.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, but is it from a sufficiently relevant/notable/well-known work? What is the comic book in question named?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Yes, but is it from a sufficiently relevant/notable/well-known work? What is the comic book in question named?

Die, It's basically a fantasy RPG comic based on D&D with a bit of Lovecraft, The War of the Worlds among other books.

the series has 4 volumes, was published by Image comic and has a beta of the game.

 

[Antvasima]

That does not seem to be a sufficiently notable/popular/easily recognised work for our purposes. My apologies. I am very open for other suggestions.

 

[KLOL506]

Yikes Ant, there was no need to bring up all that "propaganda" stuff to the table, you could've just said it's sufficiently not notable enough or not that easily recognized, but all that political talk is completely unnecessary IMHO.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. My apologies. There are certain types of authors that set me off (specifically the types that mainly engage in defilement, transgression, nihilism, darkness, lies, morbidity, indoctrination, amorality, et cetera, and as such systematically drag humanity down towards even greater unconsciousness). I will remove it.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I mean, what exactly does the level of popularity have to do with this? I thought that the detail of the feat mattered more

 

[Antvasima]

Well, recognisability is very important, but I suppose that you have a valid point.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

we can wait for other staff to see their opinion on this

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Lou_change]

So what was the agreement on Organic Manipulation

 

[Lou_change]

Sorry for the double post but Pressure Points needs some changes it lacks some weaknesses for one they require pressure points to hit or be known of to hit in the opponent’s body they also are really confusing to verse equalize as there isn’t actually just a pressure point in the human body that just kills you unlike what some media portrays but this leads to the question of do we assume pressure points work the same across different stories because this is different than assuming that everyone has souls by default this is biology which is usually a different kind of weird.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Sorry for the double post but Pressure Points needs some changes it lacks some weaknesses for one they require pressure points to hit or be known of to hit in the opponent’s body they also are really confusing to verse equalize as there isn’t actually just a pressure point in the human body that just kills you unlike what some media portrays but this leads to the question of do we assume pressure points work the same across different stories because this is different than assuming that everyone has souls by default this is biology which is usually a different kind of weird.

We would assume that everyone's techniques work as in their own verses (same as with souls really). You could also think of it as all pressure points existing, but the characters of various verses just knowing different sets of them.
In any case: If you make a case of Ryouga Hibiki vs Kenshiro then Ryouga couldn't make Kenshiro explode, as such a pressure point doesn't exist in Ranma 1/2, but Kenshiro could make Ryouga explode, as such a pressure point exists in Fist of the North Star.

 

[Lou_change]

That is altering someone’s body and sounds a lot more iffy than souls if a character is hit in a pressure point and they are just paralyzed because that is how that pressure point works like in their world why should someone attack that targets the same pressure point but makes people explode it would be like if someone who manipulations the mind because in their verse mind and soul are the same cans mind control someone from a verse where the soul and mind are explicitly separate they can’t because the reason that let them doesn’t apply here.

 

[DontTalkDT]

That is altering someone’s body and sounds a lot more iffy than souls if a character is hit in a pressure point and they are just paralyzed because that is how that pressure point works like in their world why should someone attack that targets the same pressure point but makes people explode it would be like if someone who manipulations the mind because in their verse mind and soul are the same cans mind control someone from a verse where the soul and mind are explicitly separate they can’t because the reason that let them doesn’t apply here.

You would have a point if the body were explicitly stated to be different. That isn't the case, though. Both bodies are regular human ones, but one person knows the body explode technique and the other doesn't. Simple as that. You can't prove the pressure points don't exist in the other verse. No character knowing them doesn't prove their nonexistence after all.

It also makes much more sense than Ryouga's techniques suddenly exploding people and Kenshiro's not.

 

[Lou_change]

You think humans just explode a few seconds later after being hit in a pressure point the right way in the real world do we assume Elves have the same pressure points if not we should say that on the page

 

[DontTalkDT]

You think humans just explode a few seconds later after being hit in a pressure point the right way in the real world

Do you think real world humans have souls? The argument really doesn't matter, as we are talking about fiction.

do we assume Elves have the same pressure points if not we should say that on the page

Depends on if the pressure point is on an essentially human part of an elf, I would say.

 

[Lou_change]

Why would we assume the fictional humans across different media share biological inconsistencies rather then be remain more similar to humans the soul thing seems to be from the fact we don’t touch real religion seriously almost ever outside of accidents so we just decided to make yes the default assumption.

 

[Antvasima]

DontTalk makes good sense to me above.

 

[Lou_change]

I still think we should note on pressure points something that clarifies that human pressure points aren't going to be the same as say an elephant or a robot or spirit to prevent some inaccurate match that has someone win because they know the pressure points of a different species because that is more than likely going to somehow happen one day if we don't.

 

[Antvasima]

I am not sure in either direction. Further staff input would be appreciated.

 

[Shmooply]

The current image we use for Astral Projection should be changed. Separating someone's soul from their body is just textbook Soul Manipulation, Astral Projection is someone being able to separate their own soul from their body without the need of outside help. We can replace it with any image, really, including some generic ones not related to any verse.

 

[Bobsican]

Astral Projection is the ability to separate one's spirit/soul from one's body.

That's literally the definition of the power, a power can overlap with another yet still deserve its own page out of there being enought users of a more specific sort of it, for example, Time Stop is technically Time Manipulation, but there's just a ton of users that can exclusively just stop it.

 

[Shmooply]

That's literally the definition of the power, a power can overlap with another yet still deserve its own page out of there being enought users of a more specific sort of it, for example, Time Stop is technically Time Manipulation, but there's just a ton of users that can exclusively just stop it.

Okay, then we can just reword the page as well. Separating someone's soul from their body is literally mentioned as an example of Soul Manipulation on its own page.

This ability ranges from being able to project the power of one's soul outward, grasping and ripping the souls of others out of their bodies, outright consuming souls to gain power, among other applications.

 

[Bobsican]

I'd rather modify the Soul Manip page to exclude that instead, as I'm sure all pages with Astral Projection use the page to index its current definition, so changing it suddendly would just be counterproductive to say the least.
Just like how NPI to hit nonexistent beings falls as just NPI and not Void Manip.

 

[Shmooply]

as I'm sure all pages with Astral Projection use the page to index its current definition

Not really, no. Again, why can't we just give characters who can remove souls of other beings soul hax instead, and make Astral Projection just someone being able to remove their soul from their own body to traverse a different plane of reality?