Worst Users of Every Resistance

[Flashlight237]

So, while @Armorchompy made a Worst Users of Every Ability thread (https://vsbattles.com/threads/worst-users-of-every-power.123775/ ), there lacks a Worst User for Every Resistance thread. I guess this is because people equate resistances to immunity on this site, but as Pokemon shows, that isn't always the case. It can even be worse than what Pokemon has. For example, The Devourer (Epic Battle Fantasy 5) only has resistance to Water Manipulation on its eyes. As another example, Yurine Hanazono has probably the weakest resistance to Heat Manipulation I can think of, as she was only slightly bothered by a heat wave that another character needed to be directly in front of a large desk fan to handle.

So what makes a resistance a bad resistance? Would it only slightly mitigate damage from an element or ability? Or would it be a resistance that is detrimental rather than useful (ex. zombies get damaged by HEALING)? Is it only available for a minuscule amount of time or uses?

Whatever the case, here's a list of abilities so you guys can know what's what.

• Absolute Zero
• Absorption
• Abstract Existence
• Acausality
• Accelerated Development
• Acid Manipulation
• Acrobatics
• Adaptation
• Additional Limbs
• Adhesive Manipulation
• Afterimage Creation
• Age Manipulation
• Air Manipulation
• Alternate Future Display
• Animal Manipulation
• Antimatter Manipulation
• Astral Projection
• Attack Reflection
• Aura
• Automatic Translation
• Avatar Creation
• Awakened Power
• Berserk Mode
• Beyond-Dimensional Existence
• BFR
• Biological Manipulation - Mouse (Real World) - Only adapted to intentional gene alteration in a lab setting
• Black Hole Creation
• Blessed
• Blood Manipulation
• Bodily Weaponry
• Body Control
• Body Puppetry
• Bone Manipulation - Starfish and Other Echinoderms (Real World) - I think their justification is stupid. Their justification is "lacks bones," but the thing is their skeletons are made of calcium carbonate. Calcium carbonate is literally used as a supplement for bone, so basically starfish resist bone manipulation by being bone-adjacent.
• Breaking the Fourth Wall
• Breath Attack
• Broadway Force
• Camouflage
• Causality Manipulation
• Chaos Manipulation
• Chi Manipulation
• Clairvoyance
• Cloth Manipulation
• Conceptual Manipulation
• Construction
• Corrosion Inducement
• Corruption
• Cosmic Awareness
• Creation
• Crystal Manipulation
• Curse Manipulation
• Cyborgization
• Damage Boost
• Damage Reduction
• Damage Transferal
• Danmaku
• Darkness Manipulation
• Data Manipulation
• Death Manipulation
• Deconstruction
• Density Manipulation
• Dimensional Manipulation
• Dimensional Travel
• Disease Manipulation - The Player (Project Zomboid) - They are only protected against a specific strain of a specific fictional disease. The zombies may be lousier than L4D zombies, so I'm keeping the other around as a dishonorable mention. (Dishonorable Mention: The Survivors (Left 4 Dead) - Their resistance is little more than a vaccine against a specific fictional disease.)
• Dream Manipulation
• Duplication
• Durability Negation
• Ectoplasm Manipulation
• Earth Manipulation
• Elasticity
• Electricity Manipulation
• Elemental Manipulation
• Empathic Manipulation
• Empowerment
• Energy Manipulation
• Energy Projection
• Enhanced Senses
• Existence Erasure
• Explosion Manipulation
• Extrasensory Perception - Infinite Zamasu - Vestigial due to Infinite Zamasu becoming everything at once.
• Fate Manipulation
• Fear Manipulation
• Fire Manipulation
• Fissionism
• Flight
• Forcefield Creation
• Fragrance Manipulation
• Free Movement
• Fungus Manipulation
• Fusionism
• Genius Intelligence
• Gravity Manipulation - Koopa Troopa - They can survive the centrifugal force of their own shells spinning after they're kicked. The shells, however, would have less centrifugal forces than Gravitron rides and NASA's gravity-testing centrifuges.
• Hacking
• Hair Manipulation
• Healing - Tingle (Legend of Zelda series) - The one character who isn't a zombie yet still resists healing. Wot?; Zombies (Various Media) - Zombies typically can't get healed; in fact, they actually get HARMED by healing. Hard to pick any specific one since that is a common trait given to zombies.
• Higher-Dimensional Existence
• Hive Mind
• Holy Manipulation
• Homing Attack
• Ice Manipulation - Evil Natural Water (One-Punch Man) - Has a small oil content and that's it.
• Illusion Creation
• Immersion
• Immortality
• Incorporeality
• Information Analysis
• Information Manipulation
• Inorganic Physiology
• Instinctive Action
• Intangibility
• Invisibility
• Invulnerability
• Large Size
• Law Manipulation
• Life Manipulation
• Light Manipulation
• Longevity
• Madness Manipulation
• Magic
• Magma Manipulation
• Magnetism Manipulation
• Marksmanship
• Martial Arts
• Mathematics Manipulation
• Memory Manipulation
• Metal Manipulation
• Mind Manipulation - Boyfriend and Girlfriend - Only resists Mind Manipulation if it involves any amount of separation from each other.
• Morality Manipulation
• Multilocation
• Multiple Selves
• Nanotechnology
• Necromancy
• Nigh-Omniscience
• Non-Physical Interaction
• Non-Standard Breathing
• Nonexistent Physiology
• Omnipresence
• Omniscience
• Organic Manipulation
• Pain Manipulation
• Paper Manipulation
• Paralysis Inducement - Superman (Post-Crisis) - Specific to location (outside of Earth's atmosphere) and even then he can still somewhat get paralyzed.
• Peak Human Physical Characteristics
• Perception Manipulation
• Petrification
• Photographic Memory
• Physics Manipulation
• Plant Manipulation
• Plasma Manipulation
• Platform Creation
• Plot Manipulation
• Pocket Reality Manipulation
• Poison Manipulation
• Portal Creation
• Possession
• Power Absorption
• Power Bestowal
• Power Mimicry
• Power Modification
• Power Nullification - Eustass Kidd - I'm sure there are better examples out there, but Eustass Kidd was suggested due to being able to resist the effects of Seastone, a mineral that is effectively Kryptonite against Devil Fruit users. I specified Devil Fruit users because I don't think normies are affected.
• Precognition
• Preparation
• Pressure Points
• Probability Manipulation
• Psychometry
• Purification
• Quantum Manipulation
• Radiation Manipulation - The Saiyans (As a whole) - Their justification is resisting moonlight (which is just reflected sunlight) and resisting conditions lesser than what astronauts have to deal with. Goku has this worst because at least a more naturally attuned Saiyan like Bardock can handle effectively being in space.
• Rage Power
• Reactive Evolution
• Reality Warping
• Reconstruction
• Regeneration
• Resistance (What is this doing here?)
• Resistance Negation
• Resurrection - Coldlight Walker (DnD) - While DnD's very open workings would allow dungeon masters to nix this because "f**k you," the idea of something actually resisting resurrection is perhaps WORSE than Tingle's Healing resistance (that he's stuck with, btw!) and the common stereotype of zombies actively being harmed by healing, and honestly, it's baffling that the wiki actually has someone that can resist Resurrection out of over 30000 pages..!
• Retrocognition
• Sand Manipulation
• Sealing - Every Pokemon Trainer - They block Poke Balls... And that's it.
• Self-Destruction - Electrode (Pokemon) - Electrode is said to be generally fine after blowing itself up, but at the same time, Selfdestruct and Explosion still faints Pokemon using the move no matter what you do, so I think this resistance is rather useless at least in the games themselves.
• Self-Sustenance
• Sense Manipulation
• Shapeshifting
• Size Manipulation
• Sleep Manipulation - Son Goku - Apparently waking up after being inflicted by the ability counts. He only does so at the mention of food.
• Small Size
• Smoke Manipulation
• Soul Manipulation
• Sound Manipulation
• Spatial Manipulation
• Statistics Amplification
• Statistics Reduction - Fletchling and Euden - Both have resistances that are vestigial, Fletchling due to metamorphosis and Euden because he isn't attuned to water, the element he actually needs to be attuned to in order for it to work.
• Status Effect Inducement
• Stealth Mastery
• Subjective Reality
• Summoning
• Superhuman Physical Characteristics
• Supernatural Luck
• Supernatural Willpower
• Surface Scaling
• Technology Manipulation
• Telekinesis
• Telepathy
• Teleportation
• Temperature Manipulation - Yurine Hanazono - Only slightly bothered by a heat wave.
• Text Manipulation
• Thread Manipulation
• Time Manipulation
• Time Stop - Subaru (Re:Zero) - This one is a tight competition between Enrico Pucci and Subaru, with the former only being able to move their eyes and the latter only being able to remain conscious. I picked Subaru because at least Pucci's resistance can evolve (even though that involves very specific conditions that would lead to an entire stand switch)
• Time Travel
• Toon Force - Beerus (Dragon Ball) - Honestly, he's only here because he actually has that resistance. He's pretty much both the best and the worst because he has literally no competition in this regard.
• Transduality
• Transformation
• Transmutation
• Underground Mobility
• Underwater Breathing
• Unholy Manipulation
• Vector Manipulation
• Vehicular Mastery - Spongebob Squarepants - While not officially accepted by the wiki hence the italics, I think this qualifies, as Spongebob failed his driving test 1258056 times and was even said to be unteachable by Mrs. Puff in that same episode. Spongebob is also genuinely harmful to other people and even structures because of this. He's the only character that I know of that's like this.
• Vibration Manipulation
• Void Manipulation
• Water Manipulation - The Devourer - Only his eyes resist this ability
• Weapon Control
• Weapon Creation
• Weapon Mastery
• Weather Manipulation
• Zero-Dimensionality
• A LOT OF RESISTANCES

So yeah, have fun, people.

 

[Imaginym]

Following.

 

[Lou_change]

Healing - Zombies (Various Media) - Zombies typically can't get healed; in fact, they actually get HARMED by healing

At least choose one as a place holder

Koopa Troopa for gravity manipulation doesn't even actually resist gravity.

 

[Ebihara]

Very interesting. Following

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Boyfriend and Girlfriend resist Mind Manip, but only for one specific thing

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Nice resistance to Sleep Manip, but can it beat Goku?

The Total Drama cast were already sleep deprived (Chris was doing a bunch of stuff to lower their stamina alongside the fact that they were already awake for 17 hours) and yet could still survive the ability. Goku on the other hand just got knocked out and only woke up because a third party mentioned dinner, which is far more limiting

 

[Flashlight237]

Koopa Troopa for gravity manipulation doesn't even actually resist gravity.

Yeah, whatever centrifugal force the Koopa Troopa endured wouldn't really compare to Gravitrons in amusement parks or gravity-simulating machines in NASA.

Boyfriend and Girlfriend resist Mind Manip, but only for one specific thing

Added.

Nice resistance to Sleep Manip, but can it beat Goku?

The Total Drama cast were already sleep deprived (Chris was doing a bunch of stuff to lower their stamina alongside the fact that they were already awake for 17 hours) and yet could still survive the ability. Goku on the other hand just got knocked out and only woke up because a third party mentioned dinner, which is far more limiting

Does it really count as a resistance if Goku's already sleeping on the floor?

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Does it really count as a resistance if Goku's already sleeping on the floor?

It's a limited resistance and it's one also granted to people who can wake themselves up from the ability, so yeah it counts

 

[Flashlight237]

It's a limited resistance and it's one also granted to people who can wake themselves up from the ability, so yeah it counts

Aight, bet.

 

[AThe1412]

Tingle (Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland)

A lonely 35 years old man without a job or any friends, Tingle is transformed into a different kind of being after answering the call of a mysterious entity named Uncle Rupee, who encourages him to donate great amounts of money to him to be allowed into the mysterios utopia named Rupeeland...

vsbattles.fandom.com

The Survivors (Left 4 Dead)

The Survivors are two groups of playable protagonists in Left 4 Dead and Left 4 Dead 2 respectively, in which they both fight through hordes of infected in order to get to safety and survive. While it's unknown how the Left 4 Dead Survivors first met up, in their first appearance together as a...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Nominations from Armorchompy's thread. Worst Resistance to Healing and Disease Manipulation respectively (Actually, does the worst Resistance imply that it's the most actively detrimental to the user or just the least effective at resisting the ability? Tingle qualifies for the former while zombies qualify for the latter)

At least choose one as a place holder

Only ones I can think of are the Zombies from Minecraft and undead characters from Overlord.

 

[Imaginym]

Talonflame

Talonflame is an avian Pokémon that closely resembles a falcon. Its plumage is predominantly red-orange, with gray underparts and black tips on its long, pointed wings. Ovular orange spots dot its underside, and flame patterns mark the boundaries between colors on its body. Large yellow talons...

vsbattles.fandom.com

There's probably other candidates, but Fletchling for Resistance to Statistics Reduction.

It's not in the P&A, but it is on the profile.

• Big Pecks: Fletchling's primary ability. Due to its unique physiology, any attempts at lowering Fletchling's defensive stats will fail.

(Odd wording, but okay.)
Big Pecks (Japanese: はとむね Pigeon Breast)

• The name "Big Pecks" is a pun, referring to both pecking with a beak and the pectoralis major.
  • Similarly, Big Pecks's Japanese name, Hatomune, can also be taken to mean "a proud heart".

So.... It's based off willpower? Or focuses on preventing Empathic Manipulation based Statistics Reduction? (Like Leer?)
Either way, flimsy-as-heck justification, IMHO.
It also only prevents reduction to Physical Defense, not Special Defense, & stuff like Guard Split & Guard Swap can bypass it.

Also, abilities are treated as mutually exclusive; A Fletchling with Big Pecks doesn't have Gale Wings, which speeds up (gives priority to.) to its Flying-type moves. (Gale Wings only works when its HP is full starting in Gen 7.)

Oh & also, in its evolutionary line, only Fletchling has it; Its evolved forms have Flame Body, which is useful.

There's also an arguable case for Keen Eye, but its name is just a straightforward translation, & the Accuracy loss prevention is likely just because good vision. (It later also lets 'mons ignore enemy Evasion boosts, which may be more useful in VS Matches.) So Keen Eye feels like either Enhanced Senses or game mechanics rather than a Resistance to me.

TL;DR - Flimsy justification in-universe (Based on a bird pun.), Fletchling gets it but not Fletchling's evolutions, can arguably be circumvented, precludes having better abilities, & also who's using Defense Statistics Reduction?

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

So.... It's based off willpower? Or focuses on preventing Empathic Manipulation based Statistics Reduction? (Like Leer?)
Either way, flimsy-as-heck justification, IMHO.
It also only prevents reduction to Physical Defense, not Special Defense, & stuff like Guard Split & Guard Swap can bypass it.

Also, abilities are treated as mutually exclusive; A Fletchling with Big Pecks doesn't have Gale Wings, which speeds up (gives priority to.) to its Flying-type moves. (Gale Wings only works when its HP is full starting in Gen 7.)

Oh & also, in its evolutionary line, only Fletchling has it; Its evolved forms have Flame Body, which is useful.

There's also an arguable case for Keen Eye, but its name is just a straightforward translation, & the Accuracy loss prevention is likely just because good vision. (It later also lets 'mons ignore enemy Evasion boosts, which may be more useful in VS Matches.) So Keen Eye feels like either Enhanced Senses or game mechanics rather than a Resistance to me.

TL;DR - Flimsy justification in-universe (Based on a bird pun.), Fletchling gets it but not Fletchling's evolutions, can arguably be circumvented, precludes having better abilities, & also who's using Defense Statistics Reduction?

I feel like that's reading into things that aren't meant to be and adding restrictions to abilities for no reason. A Fletching's counter to defense lowering is a passive trait and there's plenty of Pokémon abilities that do so that aren't empathetic based (off hand example would be Rock Smash). Trying to make Pokemon abilities things that they aren't feels weird, because while you can explain why a Pokemon has an ability it doesn't explain how it actually works. For example, Unaware completely ignores any statistical changes between the fighters because Bidoof and co have 1 shared brain-cell that doesn't notice. They are still effected by such abilities however when it comes to attacking they just..... stop working, which you can't exactly argue any logic into.

Additionally, Fletching's evolutions not having it isn't much of a factor since that's only a downside if it evolves mid-fight (which I don't think we allow for Pokemon stuff and would require an opponent using an ability to buff them). With defense reduction being a pretty useful one since it and attack would be some of the most common reduction types out there (as most attacks are physical based, a lot of stat reductions are too unless specifically targeting otherwise).

As for the game mechanics thing, the Pokémon anime treats abilities as the exact same way (or just blatantly better, cough Super Saiyan Infernape Blaze cough), Game Mechanics are meant to be counterarguments for basic traits like indestructible terrain or turn based combat. There's no real reason a literal ability tied to a character would have a limit on how it's applicable for such reasons without proper showings on why the specific one can't be used/compared to.

Now then, as for an far worse replacement. Resistance to this ability is weird since it's kinda hard to find an actively bad version of it, but the worst I could find is Euden who has "Dull Res". It's an ability that prevents characters from having their attack lowered, the catch however is that the user must be attuned to water in order for it to work.......... and Euden is a fire-based character. I don't need to explain why the literal contrast of interests makes such an ability less than desirable.

 

[Imaginym]

I feel like that's reading into things that aren't meant to be and adding restrictions to abilities for no reason. A Fletching's counter to defense lowering is a passive trait and there's plenty of Pokémon abilities that do so that aren't empathetic based (off hand example would be Rock Smash). Trying to make Pokemon abilities things that they aren't feels weird, because while you can explain why a Pokemon has an ability it doesn't explain how it actually works. For example, Unaware completely ignores any statistical changes between the fighters because Bidoof and co have 1 shared brain-cell that doesn't notice. They are still effected by such abilities however when it comes to attacking they just..... stop working, which you can't exactly argue any logic into.

Still, if the ability is named for a pun on "A Proud Heart", I'd assume its functionality has something to do with pride/strenth of mind/will.

Now then, as for an far worse replacement. Resistance to this ability is weird since it's kinda hard to find an actively bad version of it, but the worst I could find is Euden who has "Dull Res". It's an ability that prevents characters from having their attack lowered, the catch however is that the user must be attuned to water in order for it to work.......... and Euden is a fire-based character. I don't need to explain why the literal contrast of interests makes such an ability less than desirable.

Ooh, that's a good candidate!

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Still, if the ability is named for a pun on "A Proud Heart", I'd assume its functionality has something to do with pride/strenth of mind/will.

Names of abilities or moves aren't a good arguing point, since many many things in fiction contradict that. You additionally run into the same problem as Unaware (or Airhead in Japanese) which implies just being ditzy/dumb allows you to just ignore strategical advantages like getting sand in your eyes or being covered by string. Which just makes no sense under any circumstances, however that is specifically how the power is intended to be used and there's nothing (to my knowledge) to contradict it

Ooh, that's a good candidate!

I could be wrong on that fact, since I'm not familiar with the series and info on it seems to be scarce. So if I'm wrong then maybe something like Shana who only has the resistance to it for the sword and not herself, meaning most statistical reductions are just going to bypass it anyway. It's also noted on the page that while the sword can counter and resist magical/supernatural effects, it's completely vulnerable to passive effects which is a pretty noticeable fault in the resistance itself.

(I would list Tenmoku for it as he has the same blade but worse stats, however since his immortality is reliant on it the blade, being resistant to such effects make it far more noteworthy than Shana who doesn't have that trait with it)

 

[Imaginym]

Names of abilities or moves aren't a good arguing point, since many many things in fiction contradict that. You additionally run into the same problem as Unaware (or Airhead in Japanese) which implies just being ditzy/dumb allows you to just ignore strategical advantages like getting sand in your eyes or being covered by string. Which just makes no sense under any circumstances, however that is specifically how the power is intended to be used and there's nothing (to my knowledge) to contradict it

True. I'm confident I've often advocated for names as a lacking justification in the past before.
Apologies for any bother.

 

[Chariot190]

C-Moon Enrico Pucci for Time Stop? He can only move his eyes in it and is conscious, but he can't actually do anything. If some time stopper went up and ripped him in half, he wouldn't be able to do a thing besides acknowldge it'll happen.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

C-Moon Enrico Pucci for Time Stop? He can only move his eyes in it and is conscious, but he can't actually do anything. If some time stopper went up and ripped him in half, he wouldn't be able to do a thing besides acknowldge it'll happen.

Counterpoint, Subaru exists

 

[Flashlight237]

I feel like that's reading into things that aren't meant to be and adding restrictions to abilities for no reason. A Fletching's counter to defense lowering is a passive trait and there's plenty of Pokémon abilities that do so that aren't empathetic based (off hand example would be Rock Smash). Trying to make Pokemon abilities things that they aren't feels weird, because while you can explain why a Pokemon has an ability it doesn't explain how it actually works. For example, Unaware completely ignores any statistical changes between the fighters because Bidoof and co have 1 shared brain-cell that doesn't notice. They are still effected by such abilities however when it comes to attacking they just..... stop working, which you can't exactly argue any logic into.

Additionally, Fletching's evolutions not having it isn't much of a factor since that's only a downside if it evolves mid-fight (which I don't think we allow for Pokemon stuff and would require an opponent using an ability to buff them). With defense reduction being a pretty useful one since it and attack would be some of the most common reduction types out there (as most attacks are physical based, a lot of stat reductions are too unless specifically targeting otherwise).

As for the game mechanics thing, the Pokémon anime treats abilities as the exact same way (or just blatantly better, cough Super Saiyan Infernape Blaze cough), Game Mechanics are meant to be counterarguments for basic traits like indestructible terrain or turn based combat. There's no real reason a literal ability tied to a character would have a limit on how it's applicable for such reasons without proper showings on why the specific one can't be used/compared to.

Now then, as for an far worse replacement. Resistance to this ability is weird since it's kinda hard to find an actively bad version of it, but the worst I could find is Euden who has "Dull Res". It's an ability that prevents characters from having their attack lowered, the catch however is that the user must be attuned to water in order for it to work.......... and Euden is a fire-based character. I don't need to explain why the literal contrast of interests makes such an ability less than desirable.

I couldn't decide which is worse: an ability that's vestigial and will go away upon metamorphosis, or an ability that's vestigial yet the character is stuck with it.

 

[AThe1412]

Counterpoint, Subaru exists

To be fair, the chances of him suffering any permanent consequences are much lower than Pucci.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

To be fair, the chances of him suffering any permanent consequences are much lower than Pucci.

Tbf, C-Moon has more combative power than Return by Death. Additionally Pucci can evolve C-Moon to upgrade his resistance to start actively countering Time Stops.

 

[Chariot190]

Tbf, C-Moon has more combative power than Return by Death. Additionally Pucci can evolve C-Moon to upgrade his resistance to start actively countering Time Stops.

He has to be in a super specific place and time to evolve it. It would be completely impossible to do so in SBA, especially if the time of year ain't right.

 

[AThe1412]

Tbf, C-Moon has more combative power than Return by Death. Additionally Pucci can evolve C-Moon to upgrade his resistance to start actively countering Time Stops.

It doesn't matter if it has more combative power when the opponent can just kill Pucci without any resistance from him and he won't come back for another fight now equipped with prior knowledge of them. Evolving C-Moon is by no means an easy task as it requires a specific location and time. Having Return by Death is better if you're already in the middle of a fight with no time to prepare and can't just run off to upgrade your powers.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

He has to be in a super specific place and time to evolve it. It would be completely impossible to do so in SBA, especially if the time of year ain't right.

That's not actually the case, while Cape Canaveral and the New Moon are the ideal conditions to evolve C-Moon, they aren't needed. He can instead use his abilities to effectively workshop his own gravitational area where the conditions are similar. While yes, that is very specific it wouldn't be impossible as SBA rules actually assist Pucci in this regard

"The time and date are chosen in such a fashion that all characters are at their strongest."

Meaning Pucci would have the New Moon advantage, so it'd just be him needing to simulate a similar gravitation to Cape Canaveral as opposed to his canon route of simulating a New Moon's gravity. So while it requires a fair deal of effort on Pucci's part, it is possible

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

It doesn't matter if it has more combative power when the opponent can just kill Pucci without any resistance from him and he won't come back for another fight now equipped with prior knowledge of them.

Actually, Pucci still has some resistance within the stopped time as his gravitational abilities are still active during it (when Jotaro went to go for a kill shot, he went around the gravity barrier Pucci was generating against Jolyne). Of course it needs to be pre-emptive but under the assumption Pucci isn't actively trying to MIH then he has no reason to not have his passive gravity push active the entire time.

Also, Subaru is  really limited in what he can do against a time-stopper and still would likely lose against one unless they had some highly exploitable weakness.

Plus, I'm pretty sure the whole idea of the powers/resistances thing is that characters with better versions of the trait get their best versions. C-Moon and MIH aren't that far apart from one another to warrant discrediting it as opposed to Subaru who has less powerful overall options

 

[Chariot190]

That's not actually the case, while Cape Canaveral and the New Moon are the ideal conditions to evolve C-Moon, they aren't needed. He can instead use his abilities to effectively workshop his own gravitational area where the conditions are similar. While yes, that is very specific it wouldn't be impossible as SBA rules actually assist Pucci in this regard

No it literally is needed, it must be
"Finally, what I need is an appropriate location. Go to 28 degrees 24 minutes north latitude, 80 degrees 36 minutes west longitude... Wait there for the new moon..."

What happened, is Pucci was able to float upward because Plat literally folded him into a metal frame, and due to the increase in elevation, he was able to find a spot where the gravitational effect was the same, skipping the need to wait.

The "New Moon" date shifted ever so slightly from his perspective, essentially skipping a day.

The location still must be Cape Canaveral. Without being there, he can not evolve his Stand.

"The time and date are chosen in such a fashion that all characters are at their strongest."

Good thing it being a certain date doesn't actually make him stronger

Meaning Pucci would have the New Moon advantage, so it'd just be him needing to simulate a similar gravitation to Cape Canaveral as opposed to his canon route of simulating a New Moon's gravity. So while it requires a fair deal of effort on Pucci's part, it is possible

You're referring to this correct?
I don't think you understand, it was the new moon in conjuction with with Cape Canaveral's gravity, that was needed. It's why he needed to wait for the new moon there as opposed to literally anywhere else. Cape Canaveral's gravity is lower than elsewhere, (hence why they launch rocket's there). Pucci himself can't actually change that, or alter another place's gravity to replicate that. All he does, is invert gravity, not alter it.

He can't do this in SBA, he isn't even in the right location, the "fated place" even if you make it the new moon, which is baffling anyone would ever do that anyway because at that point why pick the C-Moon Key if he just so happens to instantly evolve into MIH because it's a New Moon.

 

[Chariot190]

Actually, Pucci still has some resistance within the stopped time as his gravitational abilities are still active during it (when Jotaro went to go for a kill shot, he went around the gravity barrier Pucci was generating against Jolyne). Of course it needs to be pre-emptive but under the assumption Pucci isn't actively trying to MIH then he has no reason to not have his passive gravity push active the entire time.

No? Just because he has other abilities doesn't mean his dogass resistance is somehow better. This would be like arguing Joseph Joestar had good time stop res because Dio couldn't kill him due to being pumped full of Hamon. It's a different ability protecting him. And also not even true, Pucci doesn't have that ability, it's anime only, in the manga he never had gravity defenses (which is kinda why literally every time they interacted with him, they did it just fine, whether it was Plat punching him in the face, Jotaro throwing the spear, Annasui cutting him with bones, etc).

Also, Subaru is  really limited in what he can do against a time-stopper and still would likely lose against one unless they had some highly exploitable weakness.

That doesn't exactly matter, This isn't "who gets ****** over most" but rather "who's resistance is actual trash".

Plus, I'm pretty sure the whole idea of the powers/resistances thing is that characters with better versions of the trait get their best versions. C-Moon and MIH aren't that far apart from one another to warrant discrediting it as opposed to Subaru who has less powerful overall options

This is a specific key. Pucci in C-Moon's resistance is awful. It's better in MIH, but MIH is not C-Moon.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

it literally is needed, it must be
"Finally, what I need is an appropriate location. Go to 28 degrees 24 minutes north latitude, 80 degrees 36 minutes west longitude... Wait there for the new moon..."

The location still must be Cape Canaveral. Without being there, he can not evolve his Stand.

Good thing it being a certain date doesn't actually make him stronger

You're referring to this correct?
I don't think you understand, it was the new moon in conjuction with with Cape Canaveral's gravity, that was needed. It's why he needed to wait for the new moon there as opposed to literally anywhere else. Cape Canaveral's gravity is lower than elsewhere, (hence why they launch rocket's there). Pucci himself can't actually change that, or alter another place's gravity to replicate that. All he does, is invert gravity, not alter it.

He can't do this in SBA, he isn't even in the right location, the "fated place" even if you make it the new moon.

Yeah, funny thing about that, Cape Canaveral isn't the place with the lowest gravity. Pucci just found it the most ideal place in the world since he'd be able to activate C-Moon at ground level there, the gravitational difference between NY and Florida are less than 0.01% which iirc is less than the difference Pucci created by changing the moon cycle variation. (I'm not a moon expert lol)

All he'd need to do is go upward to decrease his gravity to achieve the same effect.

which is baffling anyone would ever do that anyway because at that point why pick the C-Moon Key if he just so happens to instantly evolve into MIH because it's a New Moon.

I mean that's easily restrictable and various points of SBA can prevent it, if chosen by those involved. I'm just saying SBA by default helps him greatly on the evolution front, even if it'd likely never get used in a debate involving C-Moon as it ruins the point.

No? Just because he has other abilities doesn't mean his dogass resistance is somehow better. This would be like arguing Joseph Joestar had good time stop res because Dio couldn't kill him due to being pumped full of Hamon. It's a different ability protecting him. And also not even true, Pucci doesn't have that ability, it's anime only, in the manga he never had gravity defenses (which is kinda why literally every time they interacted with him, they did it just fine, whether it was Plat punching him in the face, Jotaro throwing the spear, Annasui cutting him with bones, etc).

That doesn't exactly matter, This isn't "who gets ****** over most" but rather "who's resistance is actual trash".

This is a specific key. Pucci in C-Moon's resistance is awful. It's better in MIH, but MIH is not C-Moon.

You realize you said all of that but Subaru's resistance itself is factually the worse one right? That entire argument was which was better overall with C-Moon or Return by Death, if we are arguing pure resistance with no other factors then you should be agreeing with me since Subaru's resistance is literally just Pucci's except he can't even move his eyes. I was simply making the counter-arguments since another user was talking about how other abilities can play into it.

 

[Chariot190]

Yeah, funny thing about that, Cape Canaveral isn't the place with the lowest gravity.

I never said it was the lowest, just that it has lower gravity. He can not replicate that elsewhere, because he can't alter gravity, he merely inverts it.

Pucci just found it the most ideal place in the world since he'd be able to activate C-Moon at ground level there, the gravitational difference between NY and Florida are less than 0.01% which iirc is less than the difference Pucci created by changing the moon cycle variation. (I'm not a moon expert lol)

Clearly you aren't an expert yes. Pucci also didn't figure that out, Dio did.

The difference being miniscule doesn't matter, the difference is enough, canonically,
not even other places in Florida where good enough. It had to be there specifically, that's what they say. He can't just go down the street on the new moon and evolve, it needs to be the new moon at cape canaveral.

This is because of the unique gravity of that location (won't mention it's also the fact it's a place tied to fate), etc. Pucci was able to get mimic the new moon's pull there due to increasing his elevation skipping a day, but that's all. If it wasn't that specific day, it wouldn't have been the same (His gravity has a 3km set limit, if he can't find the exact pull within that distance, it would fail, the fact it took him like 30m despite only being a day off implicates that if it was say, at the start of the month, he just wouldn't be able to at all, let alone elsewhere).

All he'd need to do is go upward to decrease his gravity to achieve the same effect.

Needs to be at the fated place. Needs to have proper gravitional conditions.

I mean that's easily restrictable and various points of SBA can prevent it, if chosen by those involved. I'm just saying SBA by default helps him greatly on the evolution front, even if it'd likely never get used in a debate involving C-Moon as it ruins the point.

Pucci can not evolve his Stand outside of Cape Carnaveral, this is explicitly stated, it had to be there. Why you're arguing this is absolutely asinine and beyond me.

You realize you said all of that Subaru's resistance itself is factually the worse one right?

I didn't say shit lad.

That entire argument was which was better overall with C-Moon or Return by Death, if we are arguing pure resistance with no other factors then you should be agreeing with me since Subaru's resistance is literally just Pucci's except he can't even move his eyes. I was simply making the counter-arguments since another user was talking about how other abilities can play into it.

Maybe, maybe not, I don't care. What I do care about though is you actively spreading misinfo regarding requirements and conditions. You could legit just say "Pucci could move his eyes, Subaru can't, ergo his is worse". You don't need to like straight up spout wild conjecture that we know isn't even true.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Needs to be at the fated place. Needs to have proper gravitional conditions.

Fate is another concept all together, which I'm 90% sure isn't applicable in fights as Pucci is similarly fated to do actions but that's not a factor in any VS fight ever (to my knowledge). The actual conditions for MIH is just the gravity, which requires it to be lower than average which

Pucci was able to get mimic the new moon's pull there due to increasing his elevation skipping a day, but that's all.

This would accomplish

Pucci can not evolve his Stand outside of Cape Carnaveral, this is explicitly stated, it had to be there. Why you're arguing this is absolutely asinine and beyond me.

Because that is not a stated fact, to my knowledge. Cape Canaveral is the ideal location, not the only location. Pucci didn't even think of the possibility of using the gravity uptick until moments before he tried it, the idea he couldn't accomplish the same result through a similar method of lowering gravity is asinine.

Maybe, maybe not, I don't care. What I do care about though is you actively spreading misinfo regarding requirements and conditions. You could legit just say "Pucci could move his eyes, Subaru can't, ergo his is worse". You don't need to like straight up spout wild conjecture that we know isn't even true.

I literally did say the bare minimum originally

Counterpoint, Subaru exists

 

[Epiccheev]

Evil Natural Water's resistance to freezing is.. just having a small percentage of oil in it's body, wich has a lower freezing point when compared to water.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Evil Natural Water's resistance to freezing is.. just having a small percentage of oil in it's body, wich has a lower freezing point when compared to water.

Add on the fact that it needs to absorb oil to gain this resistance + it can just lose the resistance if it's without oil to absorb

 

[Epiccheev]

It also gains a higher risk of being invaded by America in order to increase it's resistance.

 

[AThe1412]

It also gains a higher risk of being invaded by America in order to increase it's resistance.

Lmao.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

It also gains a higher risk of being invaded by America in order to increase it's resistance.

THAT SHIT MINE

 

[Chariot190]

Fate is another concept all together, which I'm 90% sure isn't applicable in fights as Pucci is similarly fated to do actions but that's not a factor in any VS fight ever (to my knowledge).

Which is kind of why you're yapping, if fate is an integral part of the evolution, needing a specific place tied to fate, not just any place won't work.

The actual conditions for MIH is just the gravity, which requires it to be lower than average which

Literally not true. It has to be at the fated place, they say that. A lot.

And not just lower, it needs to be specific, go to low it won't work, go to high it won't work.

This would accomplish

Would accomplish nothing if he isn't in that exact location.

Because that is not a stated fact, to my knowledge.

It literally is? They use the word "must". It must be there, it's the only place in the world with the proper conditions and is a place of fate, apparently, **** if I know what that means but it do be that.

Cape Canaveral is the ideal location, not the only location.

Yes, it being the most ideal location in the entire world, in turn means, out of the entire world, that's the place needed. Why there? Why couldn't he do it downtown? Not even 0.001% difference.

He needs it to be the most ideal location in the entire world otherwise it wouldn't work.

You don't get to say it'd work elsewhere, even when he changed his positions, he still needed to be in a specific spot. Why would this translate to anywhere else? It's headcanon, conjecture, goes against not only the very narrative, but all known information presented.

Pucci didn't even think of the possibility of using the gravity uptick until moments before he tried it, the idea he couldn't accomplish the same result through a similar method of lowering gravity is asinine.

He can't lower gravity. That isn't his ability, he inverts it. He didn't change anything, the only thing that changed is his position.

If he went 30m up in say, New York, it wouldn't do anything, the gravity there is different, it might be miniscule, but that minute difference matters.
Going 30m up in Cape Canaveral, only works because it's literally already the right place.
He isn't doing anything different, he's just skipping some hours due to how gravity works.

I literally did say the bare minimum originally

I don't think you should be saying anything at all on this topic. It doesn't work like you think it does, the manga actively disagrees with you, you're ignoring the location completely, you're hyperfocusing on him simply shifting his position, while also ignoring all that did was give him the gravity one dayoff, a fact that wouldn't be replicatable ANYWHERE else, because shifting his position there wouldn't grant the pull of a new moon at cape canaveral (I don't think I need to explain that just moving around elsewhere wouldn't do anything if no spot in said places has that exact pull).

You're confusing geocentric parallax (sometimes called the diurnal parallax) with altering gravity or changing gravity by any meaningful degree. Pucci exploited that mechanic to skip some time forward. He still needed that specific pull that could only be found there at the new moon, he just skipped ahead to that specific pull.

I can't believe this is being argued on this thread of all places, talk about derailing goddamn

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

I can't believe this is being argued on this thread of all places, talk about derailing goddamn

Yeah, I'm just not going to continue this for that reason. It's ain't the time nor the place for something that literally doesn't matter here

 

[Flashlight237]

Okay, so there's a bit of an argument between whether Enrico Pucci with C-Moon or Subaru Natsuki has worse resistance to Time Stop. Here's how I put it...

Pucci's time stop resistance only allows him to move his eyes while under the effects of Time Stop, but like... That's both a conscious action (rolling the eyes) and a reflex (blinking) working at once. Even then, it can evolve, which even with the specific latitude, longitude, and lunar phase requirements, with how overly generalized SBA is when it comes to when a character is their strongest, it wouldn't matter if Goku has to be under a full moon to achieve Oozaru and Goku can't control his Oozaru form in the slightest, that is still Goku's strongest. If it can evolve even though it's like trying to evolve Yamask to Runerigus, it can evolve. Also, give Pucci a month's worth of prep time and the time stop resistance will evolve anyway when he figures out what a plane ticket is.

Subaru's time stop resistance is merely "he's conscious," which... That doesn't mean anything..! What the hell can he do while conscious exactly? Not to mention it couldn't progress at all. At least Enrico can use a conscious action and a reflex while under time stop..!

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

What the hell can he do while conscious exactly?

Stare in one direction and think

Weakness: Can't stare in one direction if time is stopped while he blinked

 

[Chariot190]

Pucci's time stop resistance only allows him to move his eyes while under the effects of Time Stop, but like... That's both a conscious action (rolling the eyes) and a reflex (blinking) working at once. Even then, it can evolve, which even with the specific latitude, longitude, and lunar phase requirements, with how overly generalized SBA is when it comes to when a character is their strongest, it wouldn't matter if Goku has to be under a full moon to achieve Oozaru and Goku can't control his Oozaru form in the slightest, that is still Goku's strongest. If it can evolve even though it's like trying to evolve Yamask to Runerigus, it can evolve. Also, give Pucci a month's worth of prep time and the time stop resistance will evolve anyway when he figures out what a plane ticket is.

Ok nevermind guess we're still doing this. Both you and Blizzard are wrong. That isn't how that works.

You're both straight up ignoring the fate aspect of it. It needs to Cape Canaveral. Gravity be damned.

But even the gravity aspect of it, you're also both grossly simplyfing the conditions and acting like it can just happen wherever if he "moves up" high enough. Pucci walking up to like the 4th floor of the building isn't going to give him the proper gravity. He isn't in Cape Canaveral.
The condition is Cape Canaveral due to its own unique gravitational pull unlike anywhere else on Earth, but not just that, it needs to be that specific gravitational pull under the influence of the new moon.

He can't just hop on a plane and then replicate that, he can't go to new york and climb the empire state and then replicate that. That isn't how this works, the gravity is still different, it needs to be that specific gravitational force, there's nowhere else on the planet it can be replicated, they straight up say this. It's why the coordinates are that specific to begin with. What Pucci did in story, was just skip ahead by exploiting his elevation, it's still a unique force to that locale (Extremely so, it was down to the meter, not even just horizontally, but vertically).

To give you an idea of how ridiculous this argument is, if his ass needed the gravity of Mars, he wouldn't be able to just pull off that anywhere on Earth by altering the diurnal parallex he's subjected to, that specific gravity simply isn't possible no matter where one moves on Earth, in much the same way Cape Canaveral under the influence of a new moon isn't something he can replicate anywhere even if he changes elevations. That specific pull is unique to that specific location.

I'm not going to get into the fact SBA doesn't work how you think it does. If a character can only use a specific ability in a specific location, and SBA isn't that location, they don't get to use it. That's how weaknesses and caveats work. A Yamask would not be able to evolve if the conditions for it to do so haven't been met mid-match. Goku would not be able to become an Oozaru if the conditions to it haven't been met.
If SBA is Central Park, Pucci would be unable to evovle his Stand because he isn't at the proper coordinates even if SBA says it's a New Moon, because it simply being a New Moon is only 1/4th of the equation, much like anyone else who has abilities or whatnot that would be unable to be used in Central Park. OP of the match, would need to specify a location that would enable such things if they have said drawbacks.

Your plane example is particularly unwarranted. And that is without getting into the fact you're conflating C-Moon's resistance, with Made in Heaven's, they're not the same Stand.

I don't even give a damn if Pucci isn't listed, why would I? Great, Pucci isn't dogshit, that's a good thing. But you could both stop like, stop spreading misinfo, whether intentional or not, and instead just go "yep, subaru is double dogass".

 

[Epiccheev]

stop spreading misinfo

You will never reach the truth