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Improving contents of Powers & Abilities pages
- Thread starter SamanPatou
- Start date
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- Tags
- vs battles wiki
Bobsican
He/Him- 21,633
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The staff so far seems to agree that pocket realities can be of universal size, the definition we are doing is also for our purposes (There's nothing to cite for your argument to be "per definition" to begin with, is there?), it isn't the same to make a pocket reality that's of the size of an universe compared to making another universe outside the one the one doing it is, and so the page would serve a purpose to cover the manipulation of pocket realities, rather than cosmological creations in general.
If anything, "Pocket Reality Manipulation" and "Universe Manipulation" can stack and aren't mutually exclusive.
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Going by my experience of reading lots of fiction, pocket universe has consistently meant a tiny "universe"/space-time continuum, and I think that we already have a universe creation page, so making them overlap is also unacceptable.
Again, I am blocking this suggestion, as it would be bad for the wiki to muddle our definitions and insert nonsense. Sorry, but I am tired, and this is not up for debate.
@DontTalkDT
Would you be willing to comment here please?
Again, I am blocking this suggestion, as it would be bad for the wiki to muddle our definitions and insert nonsense. Sorry, but I am tired, and this is not up for debate.
@DontTalkDT
Would you be willing to comment here please?
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Not as much as being "inside" another universe.
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If they're just connected, then it's another universe, especially if it's just as reachable from other universes as whatever "main" one we were starting with.
Bobsican
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Perhaps you should tag @DontTalkDT again? Maybe some other staff members as well over how to treat "universe-sized" pocket realities.
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Bobsican
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Bumping this.
Can you please ping them again?
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Okay.
@DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality
Would you be willing to help us properly define pocket universes regarding my quoted posts above?
@DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality
Would you be willing to help us properly define pocket universes regarding my quoted posts above?
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I think a pocket reality/universe doesn't necessarily need to be connected to a full universe. A house-sized dimension just floating disconnected in multiversal space probably can be referred to as such as well.
I think in common language pocket universes are usually intended as smaller than a proper universe, but beyond that they are pretty much the same in nature.
Now, we haven't always consistently excluded universe sized and bigger realm from being pocket realities, because there just usually is no reason to draw a line there. For the pocket reality manipulation page defining them as smaller might be a good idea, though. At the point where you have universal or larger pocket reality manipulation you would just be a reality warper with space manipulation IMO.
So for the page one could say:
I think in common language pocket universes are usually intended as smaller than a proper universe, but beyond that they are pretty much the same in nature.
Now, we haven't always consistently excluded universe sized and bigger realm from being pocket realities, because there just usually is no reason to draw a line there. For the pocket reality manipulation page defining them as smaller might be a good idea, though. At the point where you have universal or larger pocket reality manipulation you would just be a reality warper with space manipulation IMO.
So for the page one could say:
or something like that.
Bobsican
He/Him- 21,633
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Well, there's the matter on certain verses not explicitly calling a structure of this kind of nature a pocket reality, and there's also a case for some of such cases being potentially universes within each one, is there really a need to arbitrarily separate them when a universe-sized pocket reality is of the same nature as a city-sized pocket reality, for example? If the issue is potentially causing some misconceptions of some mixing up a "regular" universe from a pocket reality universe, then that should just be clarified as well instead.
Otherwise, what would be done for such cases?
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Ehhh... I can't quite follow you.
I just thought the ability loses its meaning once the pocket reality in question is just a universe, since it's then just reality-warping / spatial manipulation on universal scale. Beyond that I don't see an important reason to make the distinction.
Of which kind of nature? Do you mean they don't call separate spaces of less than universal size pocket realities? That certainly happens, but I don't understand what the issue with that is.
Being potentially universes within each what? Do you mean it's a problem for a universe sized pocket reality to be considered "part" of another universe or so?
I'm not sure about mixing up regular and pocket reality universes. Would a pocket reality universe be different from a regular universe?
I just thought the ability loses its meaning once the pocket reality in question is just a universe, since it's then just reality-warping / spatial manipulation on universal scale. Beyond that I don't see an important reason to make the distinction.
Bobsican
He/Him- 21,633
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Oh sorry, I misreaded what you said, let's see...
2: I surely worded that a bit poorly. I meant on cases where there's a universe in a pocket reality, which on second thought your previous post already covered that well, so don't worry about this part.
3: Well, the most clear difference would be how one would be inside a "normal" universe, or simply some other structure where a "normal" universe wouldn't be.
For example, a character creates a pocket reality in some jar, and it happens to be universe-sized as well in its contents, while it's a 3-A to Low 2-C feat and all, it still has the propierties of a pocket reality, and so it should be covered by this power, otherwise we may as well rename this power given that the criteria for it isn't based on what constitutes a pocket reality, but rather simply creating a cosmological structure smaller than a universe.
Also, the universe page mentions "Universe-sized pocket realities", bolded as a title for an entire section, although there's weird wording that appears to intend to separate "these" from "normal" pocket realities by looking a bit further in the page, should something be done over this?
While we are on that, would the destruction of the universe that also includes this universe-sized pocket reality render such a feat 2-C? This is a bit off-topic, but relevant for some revisions I have on mind.
1: Yes, and the issue I find is something I'll mention a bit later in this post.
2: I surely worded that a bit poorly. I meant on cases where there's a universe in a pocket reality, which on second thought your previous post already covered that well, so don't worry about this part.
3: Well, the most clear difference would be how one would be inside a "normal" universe, or simply some other structure where a "normal" universe wouldn't be.
For example, a character creates a pocket reality in some jar, and it happens to be universe-sized as well in its contents, while it's a 3-A to Low 2-C feat and all, it still has the propierties of a pocket reality, and so it should be covered by this power, otherwise we may as well rename this power given that the criteria for it isn't based on what constitutes a pocket reality, but rather simply creating a cosmological structure smaller than a universe.
Also, the universe page mentions "Universe-sized pocket realities", bolded as a title for an entire section, although there's weird wording that appears to intend to separate "these" from "normal" pocket realities by looking a bit further in the page, should something be done over this?
While we are on that, would the destruction of the universe that also includes this universe-sized pocket reality render such a feat 2-C? This is a bit off-topic, but relevant for some revisions I have on mind.
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I suppose... that's the result of things being able to be bigger on the inside, I suppose.
Then how about
?
I think that depends on how its portrayed. If we for example have a universe in a book, or in a jar as you said, if the universe is destroyed form outside via ripping the book apart or shattering the jar we would already not consider those actions necessarily universe level feats, as the universe/pocket-reality was of lesser nature from that perspective. Otherwise, it might be.
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I have applied it. As I did so I got one question, though. What is the following line on the page supposed to mean?
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It probably refers to the following text. The clarification should probably be move to that section instead.
Possible Uses
- Altering the internal structure of the pocket reality - usually it means the user is able to control aspects of his/her pocket reality, like manipulating time, or warping reality. Most of the time, it's limited to the boundaries of the pocket reality.
- Manipulating a pocket reality as a unit - basically controlling the pocket reality without being limited to boundaries, allowing user to shift, merge, cut and destroy pocket realities.
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Hmmm... I don't think so. I believe for what the page attempts to explain, the usage of the terminology there is reasonable.
I will move it then.
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- Thread starter
- #549
I'm addressing this here just to see what people thing, as the actual application would require its own thread.
I was thinking that Weapon Mastery should be changed to just Weapons, similarly to Martial Arts and Acrobatics.
"Mastery" implies that the character has reached a great level of skill with their weapon, but this ability is always used to note that a character uses weapon, regardless of their ability, and often it is modified into Expert, Skilled, Adept and such.
Assuming the Mastery of the weapon/s also would basically cut out all characters that don't have a very high level of skill, which is just a pointless thing (which is ignored for obvious reasons) and I believe it's why other abilities don't assume the skill level, just like the aforementioned Martial Arts.
The same reasoning could be applied to Stealth and Vehicular mastery, and perhaps more.
But since Weapon Mastery is like, one of the most popular powers in the wiki, this might be too much to handle even for bots.
What do you think?
I was thinking that Weapon Mastery should be changed to just Weapons, similarly to Martial Arts and Acrobatics.
"Mastery" implies that the character has reached a great level of skill with their weapon, but this ability is always used to note that a character uses weapon, regardless of their ability, and often it is modified into Expert, Skilled, Adept and such.
Assuming the Mastery of the weapon/s also would basically cut out all characters that don't have a very high level of skill, which is just a pointless thing (which is ignored for obvious reasons) and I believe it's why other abilities don't assume the skill level, just like the aforementioned Martial Arts.
The same reasoning could be applied to Stealth and Vehicular mastery, and perhaps more.
But since Weapon Mastery is like, one of the most popular powers in the wiki, this might be too much to handle even for bots.
What do you think?
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Well, I suggested long ago to refer to that kind of abilities as X Proficiency, that simply refer to the character being competent using that kind of weapon/skill rather than being a master (although master may be a subjective term).
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I think mastery is a subjective term, but in general, mastery means that you know how to use your weapon effectively. It also seems a bit nitpicky tbh
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I think we should just be more strick with who gets it, equipment and Notable sections exist for a reason so just having weapons is covered there
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These seem like valid points. Also, it would be an enormous task, even for a Bot, to handle renaming all of the several thousands of links to "Weapons Proficiency" or somesuch.
Bobsican
He/Him- 21,633
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It would be a considerable and productive thing to do for the site given that it would turn the pages easier to understand and with better wording overall, but it also would be a large task and all, given that this sort of powers are subject pretty often to non-standard listing for a bot to properly identify as some have said before, so this may have to be postponed for when there's a proper chance.
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Remove this from the Power Modification page:
It should be noted that users must be able to interfere with the nature of the ability itself for this to be listed in their profile.
It was brought up offsite if turning an ability on or off forcefully counted for power mod, and most people agreed, including a few staff (Wokistan, Phoenix). So this note is pointless and restrictive. This note on the page makes things a bit convoluted and goes against that, as simply turning something on really is not fundamentally changing it. I can turn on a laptop, but it's not changed other than it's doing stuff.
It should be noted that users must be able to interfere with the nature of the ability itself for this to be listed in their profile.
It was brought up offsite if turning an ability on or off forcefully counted for power mod, and most people agreed, including a few staff (Wokistan, Phoenix). So this note is pointless and restrictive. This note on the page makes things a bit convoluted and goes against that, as simply turning something on really is not fundamentally changing it. I can turn on a laptop, but it's not changed other than it's doing stuff.
Bobsican
He/Him- 21,633
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I'm not sure on that, wouldn't that just be Power Nullification?
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No. The same way that removing a power source is not Power Null, you aren't directly nulling the power. You're just taking away the ability to use it, indirectly.
Bobsican
He/Him- 21,633
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An example?
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...hm? I don't know, it wasn't my idea. Someone asked offside if it counted, I said no because of the note, people overruled. I don't know who the character was.
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