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Important suggestions for turning the wiki more professional (Staff only)

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Armorchompy said:
If a game has chapter/level names, then maybe those could be used? Or maybe something like "Cutscene after the second Joe boss fight", or is that too specific?
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I think it's too long, and I doubt we're talking games which are THAT long that having further descriptions of them are necessary.
 
I really think being so restrictive on how to source stuff is negative, if people want to word their references in a way that better fits the situation it should be allowed
 
TBH keeping a reference as short as "game name, y year" or so is too vague for the purposes of a reference, they're meant to allow for quick re-finding of a feat in question if the original visual quoting of it gets unavaiable for whatever reason, especially considering that the year of release is quite irrelevant for most cases unless there happens to be more than one game with the same name otherwise (cough Sonic 1 to Sonic 06), it also would be detrimental for games that are pretty long in terms of plot content, given that such references shouldn't require to basically replay a whole game for each one.
 
The_Impress said:
Comics, it's kinda meaningless tbh, they can go on for decades in a single volume, so
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I meant the year that each specific issue number was released, given all of the constant comic book restarts.
The_Impress said:
...mangas have volumes?
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Normally no, and when they do they are usually made distinctive in the titles, such as Naruto and Boruto, or Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball Chou, so you are probably correct.

I think that anime can be split into several volumes though.
 
Antvasima said:
All of them should preferably use year of release as well, and anime and manga should use series name, episode/chapter number, and volume specifications in the cases several versions were released.

Thank you for helping out in any case.
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I don't really agree with the year being needed for our purposes. Unless it shares its title with something else (for example, D&D reuses the titles "Deities & Demigods", "Monster Manual", "Dungeon Master's Guide", etc), I can't see the point in stating that as mandatory.

I do agree with using chapters from video games where possible, though. Still doesn't make them much better but it is a start for something very difficult to reference.
 
How are we to reference material like WoG tweets or official website descriptions when they eventually lose the domain and the website disappears?
 
Mr._Bambu said:
I don't really agree with the year being needed for our purposes. Unless it shares its title with something else (for example, D&D reuses the titles "Deities & Demigods", "Monster Manual", "Dungeon Master's Guide", etc), I can't see the point in stating that as mandatory.

I do agree with using chapters from video games where possible, though. Still doesn't make them much better but it is a start for something very difficult to reference.
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Well, comic books recurrently release 10-20 volumes of the same series or more, as they constantly restart with new #1 issues, due to poor sales, so it is necessary for them at least.

Time stamps for long movies don't hurt either.
Sir_Ovens said:
How are we to reference material like WoG tweets or official website descriptions when they eventually lose the domain and the website disappears?
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They should preferably be screencaptured, cropped, have the images uploaded to the wiki, and referenced that way.
 
The_Impress said:
Honestly I think References page is overkill
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Alternatively, we can just add the different examples that you listed out in the References section of the Standard Format page. That can work too.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, comic books recurrently release 10-20 volumes of the same series or more, as they constantly restart with new #1 issues, due to poor sales, so it is necessary for them at least.
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Sure, if something shares an exact title with something else, I agree. But as a rule otherwise, not so much.
 
Well, the issue is that virtually all Marvel and DC Comic books, and quite a lot of Image ones, have this problem, so listing the year in which a comic book issue was published seems very reasonable to me. Wikipedia also uses this principle.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, the issue is that virtually all Marvel and DC Comic books, and quite a lot of Image ones, have this problem, so listing the year in which a comic book issue was published seems very reasonable to me. Wikipedia also uses this principle.
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I mean, everyone agrees that comic books, novels, manga and other book-based mediums should have references laid out for them, but it's video games where referencing can kinda go to wack.
 
Yes, especially as video games usually do not have names for different chapters in their story progressions.

Maybe we could simply ask our members to give a brief description of during which events in each game that the feats occurr, to simplify things a bit? Or if that is not possible, just state the name of the game, and upload an image/gif of the relevant ability to the wiki and link to it, in lack of better options.
 
I mean, Marvel and DC both list out Volumes, I don't see a point in listing out the years.
 
It is considerably less confusing to keep track of the chronology/order of events that way for our visitors, given the vast multitude of different series to keep track of. Also, Wikipedia uses this as a requirement as well, so it is useful and also not hard to apply. The years of release are stated within the comic books themselves.
 
The_Impress said:
So what is the proposed format then?

Suggestions I can think of, are:
  • "[Series Name] Vol [Volume Number] Issue [Issue Number]" for comic books
  • "[Series Name] S[Season Number] Ep. [Episode Number]" for TV series/Webseries
  • "[Entry Name] ([Year of Release])" for games/books/movies
Anime shit, idk. Not familiar with it.
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So is anybody willing to make a small sandbox page with these suggestions in mind?
 
I think that comic book references should preferably list year of release, like in Wikipedia, as well.

Anyway, I would also greatly appreciate if somebody can write a draft for a References instruction page.
 
AKM sama said:
Well, if someone has any ideas, feel free to update this rough draft: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:AKM_sama/sandbox
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If you're like me and create a page with hundreds of references, it might be advisable to use a scrollbox in addition to the 2 column layout.

That can be done via {{scroll box|content={{reflist|2}}}}. One could even consider to always use a scrollbox, but maybe that would look weird.

So, maybe one could extend that one passage to:

If you use many references within a single page, you can use the code {{reflist|2}} for 2 columns of them, so the layout looks better. If even that isn't enough a scrollbox can be employed using the code {{scroll box|content={{reflist|2}}}}.
Click to expand...

Also, maybe after the section specifying how the standard formats look we could add a little reminder like:
The above standards should be adjusted to fit the piece of fiction if necessary. The references should always be given in a manner that enables any reader to find the passage in question with reasonable effort.
Click to expand...
 
Thank you very much for helping out AKM sama, and good ideas DontTalk. I think that your suggested changes should be applied.
 
I have added the first suggested text segment to our standard format page:

vsbattles.fandom.com

Standard Format for Character Profiles

When there are multiple versions of a character that are distinct enough to be split into several profiles, whether it is due to the length and complexity of the page or versions from different mediums, then the multiple pages that are created as a result of this have to be linked by a tabber...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Were my changes to your draft page acceptable?
 
Okay. Thank you.

Do any others here have suggestions for how to improve the draft for the new References page further?
 
I have a question about the references in profiles.

How would we treat references for verses that have no structural division and/or are dominated by RNG? Sandbox games akin to Minecraft and Dwarf Fortress are the first examples that cross my mind, as they are not divided by chapters, obligatory progression nodes and some events are very much luck-dependant.

Dwarf Fortress (And similar games such as Rimworld) in particular is hard to ascertain something like that, as there are several dozen variables to take account in any single feat, and the game is randomly generated. In any given game, a same "kind" of poison might have completely different effects or limitations, different spells may work by different mechanics, and so much more.
 
Maybe the game name and a brief mission description title would be workable for such cases?
 
I think the sandbox looks good, however I believe it should include a standard format when it comes to referencing pages and articles on websites.

Referencing videogames is definitely going to be an issue, due to the huge variety of structures that each type and single game has, especially when they branch out from a standard division into chapters.

For example, when it comes to referencing fighting games, I make something like this, pointing out the specific origin of a quote, cutscene etc... to where they occur in the specific game.

It eventually will be very loose and shall be adapted to specific games, and it's impossible to break down a specific format for everyone of them, I believe the best way to handle it would be a case by case evaluation.
 
I think a note should be made for books (not manga) to reference page number rather than chapter. I understand why it's done for manga, but books can strive for more convenience by cutting that out and just going directly to the page.
 
I suppose that can work, but books recurrently have different numbers of pages depending on the language they have been translated to.
 
Books also depend on where you get them and which edition you're reading them from. Especially if you're reading a pdf/epub/mobi/etc, a single book can go from 100 to 400 pages depending on the version. If there's only a single universal version of them, like 40k codices or something (although even they have disparities between online versions and paperback in the hundreds of pages), I guess it would be fine. But page number should be of secondary concern instead of chapter, sub title, etc. as those will never have that issue.
 
Like Ogbu said it depends on what book you have - as the published edition depends on paperback or hardcover which go from 16cm to 24.5cm for both then on which publisher printed them as it will then depend on the text size and page orientation.

Another thing to note is that for lots of books there are all kind of special/aniversary editions which could factor again.

But then a lot of books don't have chapters while some have lots of them or just a few that cover hundreds of pages, and finally there are those that have parts and chapters which would need to be taken in calculation.
 
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