If Competitiive Pokémon mattered in Stating Pokémon profiles!

[Amexim]

3 things to consider when thinking about competitive Pokémon, stats, and how these meta things affect how strong Pokémon are on this Site.

1: If Smogon rules determined how good a Pokémon is, not in terms of strength, but combat effectiveness and viability.

2: Stats themselves, base stats and everything.

3: Mixing this with "common sense"; as in, clearly a level 100 Pikachu is NOTHING to even any level 1 legendary on the levels of the CT. But what IS thesible?

Basically, let's just think about competitive Pokémon along with VSB stuff. Anything I should add to the OP, let me know.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

 

[Amexim]

Ok, I mean, true, but only if we take pure meta and that's it.

I'd like to talk about mixing the lore with the game itself as a thought experiment.

Like, I feel like, if we remove legends and stuff, the general ranking of Pokémon would probably be consistent with the meta, because of actual mechanics in the games. Moves, type coverage, everything. Even if we let the anime physics of Pokémon and Pokken apply, certain Pokémon would just be better than others. And, well, in tiering, x Pokémon with a higher stat than y Pokémon could be seen as generally stronger given equal... Uh... "Level". Which are weird concepts in and of themselves— levels. Because, not every being (in any verse) would have the same stats and power and overall combat effectiveness as another being of the same "level"

 

[Bobsican]

Smea!

This guy solos fiction with prep better than Batman

 

[Dziga]

Multiversal Primal-Groudon, Rayquaza, Mega-Gengar, Zygarde 100%, Xerneas, Marshadow, Yveltal, Mega-Salamence, Dusk and Ultra Necrozma, Ho-oh, Lunala, Gothithelle and Gothorita, Magearna, Ferrothorn, Toxapex, Mega-Lucario and a bunch of other Pokémon for being >>> Some creation trio member / Arceus version competitively.

 

[Amexim]

Multiversal Shuckle durability.

 

[Dziga]

Such Downplay... Shuckle is at least High Memetic level+, remember, you don't fuckle with Shuckle.

 

[Overlord775]

every pokemon is at least high 6-A, as Regigigas is PU, the lowers tier

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

2-B Blaziken, Aegislash, a lot of Megas, nearly all major legendaries, Pheromosa, etc.

 

[Overlord775]

2-B Golduck for being a perfect counter to primal groudon

 

[Wokistan]

Gen 1 Mewtwo vs mega Rayquaza, who's the strongest evrr

 

[Bobsican]

Gen 1 Mewtwo vs mega Rayquaza, who's the strongest evrr

Ice Beam one shots.

 

[Dziga]

every pokemon is at least high 6-A, as Regigigas is PU, the lowers tier

PU is no longer the lowest tier

 

[GyroNutz]

Regigigas is ZU tho

Also all second stages scale to Chansey who can 'prevail against Calm Mind Kyogre, Z-Geomancy Xerneas, and Refresh Calm Mind Arceus formes'

 

[Amexim]

I should have meantioned how Vs Battles would apply in-game strategies.

Lol Say we have a fun and games thread where we give any character 6 random Mons, and fight another character with those 6 Mons with a combination of the Anime/Pokken and Competitive Rules. They also fight alongside their Mons.

In this case, the raw stats stay the same, but the best sets for individual Mons are ranked based on the meta. So, for example, if we make them all the same tier, Mega Rayquaza is Tier -0.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

All Pokemon scale to each other, as they can affect each other.

 

[Amexim]

No. Shuckle doesn't scale to Regigigas— the stat difference is too high.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Untransformed Ditto has half the attack potency of mew.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Bump?

 

[Dziga]

No. Shuckle doesn't scale to Regigigas— the stat difference is too high.

Shuckle's durability is At least Multiversal since it's far above the likes of the creation trio.

 

[Genericstickman]

1-A Pre-Nerf Garchomp

 

[Robot972]

1-A Fear Rattata

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

No. Shuckle doesn't scale to Regigigas— the stat difference is too high.

He can still take away a percent or so of his health in one attack.

 

[Bobsican]

Mesprit and Unown also get bullied a lot.

 

[UltraChair]

Rattata is High 6-A (Via downscaling to Regigigas), with Durability Negating hax via Endeavor, that can effect 2-Bs, can speedblitz any Pokemon via Quick Attack and Sucker Punch, with a Focus Sash as part of his Standard Equipment.

 

[Bobsican]

Eternamax Eternatus puts Mega Rayquaza to shame.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

And yet has lower special attack than its regular form.

 

[Bobsican]

Feebas is > Slaking as it can beat it thanks to Protect.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

It seems couple of people are mistaking Smogon tiers as measures of power within the meta. They are not.

Smogon tiers are a measure of usability, and how certain Pokémon perform between their respective "group" (tier). That is to say, you can legit use a ZU 'mon in OU/Uber and win.

What should be used to measure the power within a meta is viability. As such, this threads are what can give us a more accurate way to measure power levels within a tier. And as you can see, Mantine, a firmly UU 'mon, is higher in the viability rankings than Gyarados, who is banned from UU.

With that out of the way... At least 4-B Mantine, being equal to Necrozma in viability. ovo

 

[Bobsican]

2-B Smeargle as it's above Arceus

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

2-B Smeargle as it's above Arceus

Damn straight! ovo

However, Smeargle is more viable literally because of its hax, not because of its power. Thus, it would have Tier 2 hax based on its performance on AG, while seeing his viability on a metagame where it can actually take hits and dish it back to the determine its physical stats... Which I don't think there is outside LC. ovo

 

[UltraChair]

Everybody on this is 2-B for being above or equal to Uxie

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Everybody on this (expect for Zygarde) is 2-B for being above Uxie

That's outdated (which for our purpose, basically retconned). The one I posted above is the more recent one (but probably still 2-B, since I believe Uxie is completely unviable in the current meta).

That said... Within the confines of this hypothetical analysis, I don't agree with Uxie being considered 2-B. Maybe in hax, but not in power, as I don't think it got ever close to be on the level of the Creation Trio even in its debut generation outside of the lore statements about how it controls them alongside the other two, and it's more on the level of power of people with High 6-A (thank you, Regigigas).

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I'll do add, however: The listing of the 'mon in the particular ranking (as in, everyone in C Tier) doesn't compare actually between them, but more ranks them as equals in viability. The list is simply in alphabetical order.