Pokemon God Revision- Yes its Arceus (And minor stuff for Unown)

[Moritzva]

What about the voices of the new staff? Who couldn't also participate in the original for myriad of reasons, are they not important voices as well?

The previous thread was open for a very large amount of time, a fair few of the opinions are just reiterations from the previous thread, and this thread was not made by one of those individuals you refer to.

If a completely unrelated person wanted to butt in with a thread on the matter, I'd understand, but it shouldn't be the same person rerolling the votes in hopes that it turns out better. By that logic, Iam could just make a third thread after this to change it back.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

The previous thread was open for a very large amount of time

This one has been too, though? Plenty of discussion before it got accepted.

a fair few of the opinions are just reiterations from the previous thread, and this thread was not made by one of those individuals you refer to.

If a completely unrelated person wanted to butt in with a thread on the matter, I'd understand, but it shouldn't be the same person rerolling the votes in hopes that it turns out better.

Yet they still agreed, with even Executor bringing a bit more of an elaboration.

By that logic, Iam could just make a third thread after this to change it back.

I even suggested to wait quite a while to avoid that. Heck, even Sniper was gonna be patient enough to simply wait (until suddenly the thread got hijacked).

While I understand the sentiment that one shouldn't try to brute force an upgrade by spamming threads, I don't think that was the case here. What Sniper wanted was a fair chance, because many of his arguments were simply ignored (and I was on the original thread, plenty of them were; like DontTalk suggesting that Arceus may be the origin of powers, but he may lack the knowledge to use them, despite Uxie, the Pokémon that embodies knowledge, being literally a part of, and born from itself) or were brushed off because of not enough context (which Sniper has brought up this time; like the physiologies of pkmn being tied to their typings) or bad translation (which were also corroborated this time by Executor and Iam).

 

[FinePoint]

Okay. I will ask all of the involved staff members for input help in lack of better options.

@DontTalkDT @DarkDragonMedeus @GyroNutz @Elizhaa @Maverick_Zero_X @Executor_N0 @FinePoint @The_real_cal_howard

Does the above post make logical sense to you? I would greatly appreciate if as many of you as possible help us to finally reach a conclusion here.

Arceus has been historically inconsistent in the anime (looking at you, meteor scene), but honestly it's all easily explainable by the fact that appearances of Arceus are avatars it creates that can be as powerful or as weak as it wants. We receive confirmation of them being only a small piece of him in Legends, and as mentioned, Arceus has been established to like testing people and basically serving the plot.

I will agree that the plates are pretty vague, but the most consistent explanation seems to be that they're indeed the source of all moves, and that Arceus logically contains all of their powers as well, at least in his true form.
Unfortunately we don't have confirmation of this, but I'd wager that in the same way Arceus is split across the multiverse as avatars, pieces of him, the individual plates in each universe are pieces of the larger concept of the plates as well, though this is ultimately speculation.

I still believe that Arceus as the heart, his true form so-to-speak, should logically have every power of the (multi)verse he created, including those naturally demonstrated by humans, and those developed based on his powers.
In addition, the Lake Trio, and Arceus's true form by extension, invented knowledge itself, so logically he should be capable of the knowledge needed for powers developed later.

His avatars, though, are where everything sort of becomes complicated and varies wildly, and is often based off the plates he has.
I'd be fine with his avatars only having base Pokemon moves, since that I can believe, though I can't believe that his true form, which is the source of everything, even abstract concepts like knowledge, would be limited in-verse.

 

[FinePoint]

Also, I'm finally coming down from Covid.
I'm not sure what I missed, since I wasn't checking the wiki thoroughly during that time.
Did the conversation about this thread being a repeat get resolved, or no?

 

[Sniper670]

I realised there are issues or misconceptions about the Pokémon cosmology.

The truth is that it is the Pokémon Arceus that is indeed the source of everything. The OS manifested Arceus to created the multiverse. Which is why this exists :

If that’s the case, can the Pokemon said to have created the world be thought of as a manifestation of the heart!?

All the concepts are extensions of his manifested avatar within the OS. Everything exists as inner workings. Both are the source of everything yes, but if you want to be very specific about who gave birth to the concept of time, space, spirit etc...... It's a Pokémon who did it

Which is it simply doesn't make any sense that the Pokémon cannot use all the powers available to the multiverse, when he's literally the source of the power system that the multiverse uses as well as what makes up the physiology of all Pokémon.

The logical argument against it would be the one DT made, that he may not have the knowledge..... Except the concept of knowledge is an aspect of Arceus.

"He was outsmarted" and the director of the movie confirmed they had to resort to pis to get the movie going.


About the cosmology, you'll often see this in the tier high 1A-0 cosmologies where a being created the universe and is the god, and yet there's another being beyond it. Not a God, I do think the OS is Apophatic, but I'm waiting for full confirmation. His unknowability was mentioned in PLA

 

[GyroNutz]

Does the above post make logical sense to you? I would greatly appreciate if as many of you as possible help us to finally reach a conclusion here.

I agree with the premise of the OP, and Executor's arguments seem to be accurate as well.

 

[Sniper670]

Okay. I will ask all of the involved staff members for input help in lack of better options.

@DontTalkDT @DarkDragonMedeus @GyroNutz @Elizhaa @Maverick_Zero_X @Executor_N0 @FinePoint @The_real_cal_howard

Does the above post make logical sense to you? I would greatly appreciate if as many of you as possible help us to finally reach a conclusion here.

It's been over 24 hours.....

I.... Really don't see the point of stretching this thread any longer, when it had already been accepted (by 5 staff members) and applied (More than a month ago)

All Executor_N0 explanation is going to do is strengthen their positions.

We need 2 staff, DT and Maverick, but they seem disinterested in the thread.

How long are we going to wait, who are we waiting for? This thread is going on for far too long and ought to be closed.

 

[Sniper670]

Putting this here because I'd be banned, come back after 2 weeks to meet this thread again. Smh

 

[Sniper670]

bump

 

[Sniper670]

Bump

 

[Sniper670]

Bump.

 

[Sniper670]

BUMP

 

[Antvasima]

So can you remind us what has been accepted to be applied here, and which staff members that think what, please?

 

[Sniper670]

Well.... Here's the issue
We're calling staff to reevaluate their decisions when no new arguments have been made against the reasons why they agreed to the thread in the first place

This thread proposal was accepted by 5 staff members and applied over 1 month ago is still open because one staff disagrees with it.

I think this should be enough to explain why the thread needs to be closed as the staff themselves seem disinterested in revisiting it

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Never mind then. I suppose that I agree that it seems best to close this thread in that case.

 

[Sniper670]

Yup.

I'm sorry that this thread has caused many problems and I promise to be of my best behavior

 

[Antvasima]

No problem.

I will close this thread then, in lack of better options. My apologies, Moritzva.