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I/O Revision thread

Did no one check the old CRT threads for scans? Weren't those supposed to be saved when we changed forums? I can provide any scans regarding specific tiering justification for 1-A or 1-B/High 1-B again but I am pretty sure they should still be there. I am very busy at this time, so I apologize that I do not have time to tackle the topic that is the Majestic Presence or the Gods of Cyberspace. I think that in the absence of a better choice we can just have them at "Unknown, at least 1-A" until they can be addressed.
 
Iapitus_The_Impaler said:
Did no one check the old CRT threads for scans? Weren't those supposed to be saved when we changed forums? I can provide any scans regarding specific tiering justification for 1-A or 1-B/High 1-B again but I am pretty sure they should still be there. I am very busy at this time, so I apologize that I do not have time to tackle the topic that is the Majestic Presence or the Gods of Cyberspace. I think that in the absence of a better choice we can just have them at "Unknown, at least 1-A" until they can be addressed.
Click to expand...
Also Mutsuki and Sakuya should be 1-A too
 
I'll just post a real quick summary with a few scans while I have time. I am very busy so I think I'll just drop this now while I have it open. If the profiles justifications are not clear enough then perhaps it would be a good idea to add some more scans as well.

On a side note, Marduk was at some point supposed to get a CRT for Low 1-A, tho upon further analysis I think it is possible they are just straight up 1-A even before they reach the proper Meta world at the end of the work. Now seems a good a time as any to at least discuss Low 1-A if we are evaluating it within the new system. Murduk just upon her birth, before she even reached the full blown meta world, dreamed an entire infinitely layered world into existence. Viewing an entire High 1-B structure as a dream is pretty open and shut Low 1-A at the very least. Here is the part that I think would make pre-meta world Marduk's transcendence possibly 1-A within the changes of the new tiering system, but at the very least it can be used as more supporting evidence of transcendence: As seen in the scan above, Marduk views the infinitely layered structure as simultaneously existing and not existing. To them, this world is both infinite in size and yet nothing at all. All things happen, and yet nothing happens at all in their view. They are also above Ishtar who prior to her incarnation does this, existing omnipresent throughout the whole hierarchy (that remember has infinite higher and lower dimensions) and yet not existing anywhere at all.

Previously when I have evaluated the Marduk feat I did not understand the tiering system as I do now from my frequent discussions with Ultima and Aeyu, so I did not realize that the above scan may in fact qualify for a 1-A jump instead of merely being what I thought was an increased degree of High 1-B (mainly in the old tiering system) or Low 1-A. Keep in mind though, that if Pre-meta world Marduk is 1-A, that means that the meta world characters could even reach High 1-A with their inaccessible transcendence being over 1-A characters instead of High 1-B characters/structures.

Here is the meta world stuff:


Also just to reiterate the description from the profile from before: "Meta-existence: Their true form has transcended the infinite hierarchy completely, beyond any concept of time or space. Beyond Existence and Non-existence, they experience everything as mere possibility, and are able to choose it on a whim. Not only "beyond" everything, but "between" it as well. They exist in the meta world, ruled only by thought. She exists as spaceless, timeless information."
 
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Iapitus_The_Impaler said:
Did no one check the old CRT threads for scans? Weren't those supposed to be saved when we changed forums? I can provide any scans regarding specific tiering justification for 1-A or 1-B/High 1-B again but I am pretty sure they should still be there. I am very busy at this time, so I apologize that I do not have time to tackle the topic that is the Majestic Presence or the Gods of Cyberspace. I think that in the absence of a better choice we can just have them at "Unknown, at least 1-A" until they can be addressed.
Click to expand...
You or others can check for the threads in the backup list here if you wish:

 
No problem, but the "Sir" is definitely not necessary. I am just trying to be a helpful wiki organiser.
 
Anyway, is anybody able to find any useful information from the links that I provided?
 
Should delete this in I/O profile??

Even Infinite Dimensional entities are considered to be extremely weak within the verse. With a large portion of its cast being Outerverse or even High Outerverse level. Along with having a questionably omnipotent Tier 0.

Since this wiki not use Omnipotent for determine tier, especially tier 0
 
megaraptor said:
Should delete this in I/O profile??

Even Infinite Dimensional entities are considered to be extremely weak within the verse. With a large portion of its cast being Outerverse or even High Outerverse level. Along with having a questionably omnipotent Tier 0.

Since this wiki not use Omnipotent for determine tier, especially tier 0
Click to expand...
Just revision
 
megaraptor said:
Should delete this in I/O profile??

Even Infinite Dimensional entities are considered to be extremely weak within the verse. With a large portion of its cast being Outerverse or even High Outerverse level. Along with having a questionably omnipotent Tier 0.

Since this wiki not use Omnipotent for determine tier, especially tier 0
Click to expand...
megaraptor said:
It just need revision I guess. It's kinda bad if the verse has an outversal tier gets deleted from this site.
Click to expand...
 
megaraptor said:
Should delete this in I/O profile??

Even Infinite Dimensional entities are considered to be extremely weak within the verse. With a large portion of its cast being Outerverse or even High Outerverse level. Along with having a questionably omnipotent Tier 0.

Since this wiki not use Omnipotent for determine tier, especially tier 0
Click to expand...
That would likely be good, yes.
 
I do not know.

What are the conclusions here so far, and is somebody willing to investigate the previous I/O threads for evidence please? I think that we linked to where you can find them earlier.
 
Well, based on Iap's cosmology post above:
  • Marduk's hierarchy is a High 1-B hierarchy, pretty clearly defined
  • Marduk is Low 1-A, potentially 1-A for dreaming said hierarchy. I think we could go with the former as a safe end (Ultima's or KingPin's opinions would be welcomed for this)
  • The Moon is 1-A for being beyond all the overlayed hierarchies and completely transcending them, including Marduk. This could end up at High 1-A if Marduk becomes 1-A.
 
Okay. Thank you for the evaluations.
 
I don't see how Marduk viewing an infinite hierarchy of layered worlds as both existent and nonexistent is somehow more impressive than a standard reality-fiction distinction. As for the Moon, it's pretty cut and dry 1-A: it accommodates 1-B, High 1-B and Low 1-A stuff as equal possibilities and transcends them indifferently, and also sits outside of the applications of space and time. We'll need to figure out where the Cyberspace Goddesses and the Majestic Presence fit into this, though, and I don't remember if we still treat the latter as a thing that exists or if we agreed that it doesn't and was made up.
 
Thank you for the input.

Is somebody willing to investigate the evidence provided in previous I/O threads, or is that not necessary for this revision?
 
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Antvasima said:
Is somebody willing to investigate the evidence provided in previous I/O threads, or is that not necessary for this revision?
Click to expand...
I would appreciate some evaluations of this question.
 
Well, given that you requested a ban for your account, apparently not.
 
Are any others willing to help out here please?
 
"A world of infinite layers, without a beginning, there's no end, i saw it in a dream, that's what my brain sees"

Dreaming the whole infinite hierarchy is 1-A, low 1-A is above the infinite hierarchy without further context.

For me marduk should be 1-A and the meta world beings should be High 1-A
 
Yeah we definitely need others here. I won't have enough time to read I/O to give my evaluation, I apologize.
However, to reply to jeki, "dreaming it" is ambiguous in terms of the amount of transcendence, which is why low 1-A is the safest spot. According to the tiering system FAQ (and my interpretation) in order to be 1-A in this case would need for each layer of the dream being uncountably infinity greater than the last in order for the "core" of its reality to be low 1-A, and allow "dreaming" the hierarchy to be 1-A as Marduk would reside in a space altogether separate from a low 1-A construct.

To get to the point, is there a scan for each layer of the hierarchy being uncountably greater than the last in order to potentially solidly 1-A Marduk?
 
There is something that produces a doubt in me. Marduk says that I dream about infinite hierarchies, as we know that part of the dream and not that I simply create all hierarchies based on it. In your dream
L
 
Iapitus_The_Impaler said:
On a side note, Marduk was at some point supposed to get a CRT for Low 1-A, tho upon further analysis I think it is possible they are just straight up 1-A even before they reach the proper Meta world at the end of the work. Now seems a good a time as any to at least discuss Low 1-A if we are evaluating it within the new system. Murduk just upon her birth, before she even reached the full blown meta world, dreamed an entire infinitely layered world into existence. Viewing an entire High 1-B structure as a dream is pretty open and shut Low 1-A at the very least. Here is the part that I think would make pre-meta world Marduk's transcendence possibly 1-A within the changes of the new tiering system, but at the very least it can be used as more supporting evidence of transcendence: As seen in the scan above, Marduk views the infinitely layered structure as simultaneously existing and not existing. To them, this world is both infinite in size and yet nothing at all. All things happen, and yet nothing happens at all in their view. They are also above Ishtar who prior to her incarnation does this, existing omnipresent throughout the whole hierarchy (that remember has infinite higher and lower dimensions) and yet not existing anywhere at all.
Click to expand...
I take it that the logic here would be that the state of the hierarchy not existing at all is Low 1-A, as opposed to the state in which the hierarchy exists, which is High 1-B, yes?

If so, I really don't see how this amounts to anything more than a standard reality-fiction interaction, especially considering how these two states of being seem to be treated as functionally opposites and two sides of the same coin by the narration, nevermind that this seems to be just standard Quantum Mechanics talk on the novel's part. The Imgur album you posted describing the world as "a dream with no observer," "unstable, hanging in balance" and as "trembling in the seas of probability" seems to cement that, in my opinion.

Iapitus_The_Impaler said:
Meta-World stuff
Click to expand...
Yeah, I am not sure how that would reach High 1-A on its own, especially given how, for any given set X, the space of all its permutations would at most be its power set, 2^X. So, given a Low 1-A space, whose cardinality is 2^2^aleph-0, the power set would be 2^2^2^aleph-0, which equals baseline 1-A.
 
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Would somebody be willing to apply these revisions based on Ultima's analysis above, or do we need further research via the threads that I linked to earlier?
 
I agree what Ultima say

What I see, infinite hierarchy marduk is just part first layer of infinite hierarchy mutsuki and also use many world interpretation it's too vague make those High 1-B because there no further context for that

Infinite Hierarchy Marduk = High 1-B
Infinite Hierarchy Mutsuki = Low 1-A
The Moon = 1-A
 
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