Humongous Frisk upgrade

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Tier upgrade - Frisk was able to break out of Full Power Asriel's Angel of Death move just by remembering her friends.

If that doesn't work, I'd like to mention the fact that Photoshop Flowey admitted that it is somewhat possible for Pre-Asriel Frisk to defeat him.

A claim that was supported by Sans's statement that Photoshop Flowey was nothing to a Determined Frisk.

This is further supported by the fact that, if you'll notice the top left corner, Photoshop Flowey was not capable of taking Frisk's SAVE and LOAD away a second time, as Frisk can still LOAD out of of the fight. In fact, even Asriel was incapable of taking Frisk's SAVE and LOAD from them in the same encounter, where the child got way stronger than before upon fighting the God of Hyperdeath.

Also, Frisk's Durability becomes infinity by the end of the game(And before anyone says it's not canon, Frisk was deliberately being tested by the Annoying Dog to see if she should be given permission to enter his house).

Hax:

Acute sense of smell:

Her sense of smell is so acute that she can smell and identify the scent of bones(which have no special scent) mid-fight

Can smell and recognize the scent of stardust

Can even attribute different smells to different people

Acute hearing:

Ca hear a dog blinking on the other end of a phone call

Can hear spiders clapping

Immune to Poison Manipulation - The air in the CORE was seemingly filled with ozone, which has a distinct smell(this is supported by how precise Frisk's sense of smell is), and Frisk was capable of moving around it for a very long time with no negative effects. Keep in mind that ozone is highly poisonous to humans.

Can eat anything: Can eat garbage, torn up pieces of construction paper, dog bones, and nonedible plants and this doesn't affect her at all, in fact it heals her

Dream Manipulation:

Can make dreams come true [1]

Can use and hold dreams like solid objects and even sell them

Fate Manipulation - Alphys states that Determination can let people change fate

Limited Mind Reading(Keep in mind there would be absolutely no way for Frisk to normally know this)

Resistance to Plot Manipulation - Flowey can change speech bubbles and Asriel can change the game's background(both of which are Plot Manipulation) and Frisk has done the opposite of their wishes plenty of times to the point where they could literally do nothing to stop the child

Resistance to Electricity Manipulation - Papyrus was badly shocked and turned black from an electric shock, but when Frisk was hit with the exact same thing, they were hardly scratched. This is important because the two later fought evenly outside Snowdin, and Papyrus was capable of knocking the child unconscious in said fight.

Resistance to Sleep Manipulation - She can get a full night's sleep in just 2 minutes, meaning she sleeps approximately 270 times faster than regular humans her age

An Intelligence upgrade - Can recognize complex 3D shapes with a glance, even ones that Chara was unable to do the same with

Perfectly understands and uses a language spoken by only wiggling and has an entire conversation in that way, despite first seeing it only a minute before at best(this would also double as Multilingualism)

Asgore has been alive and training to fight specifically humans for millennia, fought and killed 6 human children beforehand, as well as fought on the front lines of the war against the humans and survived, while Frisk could outmaneuver him and hurt him. This means that Frisk can fight even people with thousands of years of fighting experience.

Notable moves:

Flex: Increases her ATK

Clear Mind: Increases her DEF by 1, or by 2 if she has been inflicted with dizziness(it also gets rid of the dizziness effect), though this move is highly inferior to Hope

Heat Up: Heat Manipulation, heats up the vicinity by a significant amount, can stack indefinitely

Cool Dow: Ice Manipulation, can instantly erase any effects of Heat Up, no matter how many Heat Ups

Stare: Power Null, she glares at something magical and it's power weakens

Draw: Life Manipulation, lets her draw things that come to life

Sing: Sleep Manipulation, makes the target sleepy the first turn it's used, the second turn it's used the target falls asleep

 

[TurboTriangle601]

Think the Immunity to Poison Manipulation might just be a really strong resistance to it giving VSB's standards. And it's way more likely that the immense amount of sleep Frisk gets is just a game mechanic so players won't have to look at a screen for hours.

Also Asgore was holding back-ish iirc so it's debatable if he actually used his millennia of experience.

Everything else seems relatively fine.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

>Using a scene from the Credits to get an upgrade

>Resistance to Sleep Manipulation due to "getting a full night sleep" in 2 minutes

Do you comprehend what a gag is?

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

And it's way more likely that the immense amount of sleep Frisk gets is just a game mechanic so players won't have to look at a screen for hours.

The hotel lady directly mentions that Frisk was only in their room for 2 minutes.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Angel of Death is hax, not AP.

"If you DO defeat me" is blatant taunting.

What Sans is saying is just a pep talk.

I don't see how those scans are Flowey/Asriel being unable to take away Save and Load?

The ∞ HP thing is non-canon.

I don't see how smelling ozone means anything, much less immunity to poison manip.

"Can eat anything" is pointless to add.

I'm pretty sure the dream thing is just hyperbole.

"Changing fate" is blatant hyperbole in this case.

The flavor text in battle is not what Frisk is thinking.

We already went over how the credits thing with Asriel isn't canon, Flowey changing what his speech bubble says isn't Plot Manipulation and that doesn't prove resistance for Frisk.

That's just durability, not resistance to electricity.

The sleeping thing is a gag and not even resistance anyway.

Chara not recognizing the shape is just them being very basic, and yet again the narration is not what Frisk is saying.

I definitely wouldn't take the "millennium" bit seriously considering who it's coming from, and Asgore both wasn't fighting seriously against Frisk and I doubt he was training all that time.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

>Using a scene from the Credits to get an upgrade
>Resistance to Sleep Manipulation due to "getting a full night sleep" in 2 minutes

Do you comprehend what a gag is?

Yes, I do. And neither of them are it.

 

[SuperBearNeo_X]

I agree with most of this

Frisk is shown alot more than what's given in the game itself

Things I'm Neutral O

Pacifist Frisk being stronger than Omega Flowey, i dunno on this as while you've presented alot of quotes that suggest so (Even from Flowey himself). It kinda's iffy when you consider OF was pilling on Frisk during their fight (Yes i'm aware Pacifist Frisk and Neutral Frisk vary. But i don't recall the difference being drastic)

However some things i disagree with

>Determination changing fate would be a reference to the idea that it allows users to essentially cheat death as opposed to literally alter fate

>Changing textboxes is more akin to Text Manipulation as opposed to control over plot and changing a background can be alot of things. 4th Wall Awareness or something, just not Plot Manipulation

 

[Wokistan]

Isn't changing his own textbox literally nothing? His text box is used to convey his speech, so if he changed what his text box said, that's just saying something else.

 

[TurboTriangle601]

Then again, Controlling speech bubbles/text =/= Controlling the plot regardless.

Also you can only sell dreams if you hack them into your inventory so Frisk can't canonically do that.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

>Using a scene from the Credits to get an upgrade
>Resistance to Sleep Manipulation due to "getting a full night sleep" in 2 minutes

Do you comprehend what a gag is?

Yes, I do. And neither of them are it.

Yes, they are. It's the game poking fun at a common Video Game Trope

 

[Jinsye]

Sleeping fast isn't even resistance to sleep manip.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Then again, Controlling speech bubbles/text =/= Controlling the plot regardless.
Also you can only sell dreams if you hack them into your inventory so Frisk can't canonically do that.

It's stated directly on the Plot Manipulation page that changing words on speech bubbles is a form of Plot Manipulation.

Also you can sell Dreams if there are some left over from your Asriel fight, you're thinking of the Annoying Dog.

 

[Wokistan]

Pretty changing your own text box represents you just saying a different word.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Sleeping fast isn't even resistance to sleep manip.

It is depending on the type of Sleep Manipulation, such as ones meant to wear off or put them to sleep for a certain period of time.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Pretty changing your own text box represents you just saying a different word.

Flowey looked at the speech bubble and then changed only a specific word he didn't want you to see.

 

[Wokistan]

Which is representative of a verbal backspace and nothing more.

 

[Lightbuster30]

The fact that Frisk can damage Omega Flowey even a tiny bit already puts them at 2-B. If no amounts of power boosts will get you from tier 2-C to 2-B, then the same should be true in the opposite direction.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

The fact that Frisk can damage Omega Flowey even a tiny bit already puts them at 2-B. If no amounts of power boosts will get you from tier 2-C to 2-B, then the same should be true in the opposite direction.

Frisk's AP is currently 2-C.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

Chip damage = game mechanic.

 

[Jinsye]

Also, assuming Flowey/Asriel have Plot Manipulation (which they don't. We've literally been over Asriel having Plot Manipulation)

They

-Never used it to get the Human SOULS

-Never used it to beat Sans

-Never used it on Frisk

-Never used it in a combat applicable way.

Which means, they wouldn't use plot manip in-character, or in a combat applicable way which would give Frisk a resistance.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Chip damage = game mechanic.

That game mechanic is what gave Frisk 2-B, and 2-C AP in the first place.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

That infinity HP would apply to the Anomaly as the game was referring to them, not Frisk tbh.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I'm so confused, on some of these.

• Tier upgrade

Frisk's friends are giving them a pep talk and Flowey is taunting them. The entire thing is revealed only seconds later to have been part of Flowey's plan to lure everyone into his trap so he could absorb enough monster SOULs to ascend completely.

• Acute sense of smell and hearing

This is...actually alright, I guess?

• Immunity to Poison Manipulation

I have no idea how this proves complete immunity to Poison Manipulation

• Can eat anything

Irrelevant to the page.

• Dream Manipulation

99% sure this is just an extension of their DETERMINATION.

• Fate Manipulation

This is not direct Fate Manipulation. Literally picking yourself up and dusting yourself off from death simply because you wanted to keep living is what's being referred to. Changing your fate via DETERMINATION.

• Resistance to Plot Manipulation

...What?

• Resistance to Electricity Manipulation

I don't know? Maybe? It's pretty minor, and it's not like the shock actually inflicted notable damage to Papyrus. He was fine a few seconds later.

• Resistance to Sleep Manipulation

Pretty sure this is an RPG joke.

• Intelligence upgrade

A lot of the "internal monologue" stuff is more likely to be the essence of Chara than Frisk. I don't think these are really examples of extreme intelligence, regardless.

• Notable Moves

Flex: Sure, as Frisk is actually the one doing this.

Clear Mind: I don't know, because the link is wrong.

Heat Up: Frisk is messing with a thermostat.

Cool Down: Maybe? Considering they actually achieve this by simply blowing on Pyrope.

Stare: This is extremely vague.

Draw: OK, I guess.

Sing: I...suppose?

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Also, assuming Flowey/Asriel have Plot Manipulation (which they don't. We've literally been over Asriel having Plot Manipulation)
They

-Never used it to get the Human SOULS

-Never used it to beat Sans

-Never used it on Frisk

-Never used it in a combat applicable way.

Which means, they wouldn't use plot manip in-character, or in a combat applicable way which would give Frisk a resistance.

Yeah. That, or it wasn't enough to sway the people it was used on. All 3 of those people are known for being insanely determined.

 

[Wokistan]

Why would being determined ward off plot manip, of all abilities? Discounting the fact that that's not plot manip in the first place, there's really not a reason for that to work.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Why would being determined ward off plot manip, of all abilities? Discounting the fact that that's not plot manip in the first place, there's really not a reason for that to work.

Both of the things done in the links are textbook examples of things specifically listed to be Plot Manipulation.

 

[Wokistan]

Already gone over why flowey's thing isn't, and we aren't going to use a credits gag for an upgrade. Besides, Asriel'd need to actually use the ability on Frisk for Frisk to resist, not just add some new credits.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I'm so confused, on some of these.

Tier upgrade

When has Sans ever told you something that wasn't true? It was pretty obvious that they thought defeating Photoshop Flowey was something that could be done.


Immunity to Poison Manipulation

You're right. Looking at the pages, it should be Resistance and not Immunity.


Can eat anything

It should at least be mentioned, as many other pages list hax that either aren't usable in fights or aren't listed with their own page.


Dream Manipulation

It probably is, but it doesn't mean Frisk can't manipulate dreams.


Fate Manipulation Does Alphys know that humans can use DT to come back from the dead?


Resistance to Plot Manipulation

Flowey and Asriel both performed textbook examples of Plot Manipulation, but they could not manipulate Frisk with them.


Resistance to Electricity Manipulation

You're right, but the same electric shock(even repeated applications of the same electric shock) still did a lot less to Frisk than it did to Papyrus.


Resistance to Sleep Manipulation

It probably is, but it doesn't mean Frisk didn't canonically do it.


Intelligence upgrade

What does Chara have to do with Frisk's deduction and ligualism?


Notable moves

Clear Mind: Whoops, here's the real link, sorry.

Heat Up: How would there magically be a thermostat that controls the natural heat of the Hotlands wherever Frisk decides to fight Pyrope?

Cool Down: Yes, and the fact that the move gets rid of the effects of Heat Up.

Stare: How is glaring at a magical artifact vague?

Sing: What's confusing about it?

 

[Wokistan]

Pretty sure sans lies lies to you or is deliberately misleading quite a lot, actually.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Pretty sure sans lies lies to you or is deliberately misleading quite a lot, actually.

Do you mean like when he pretends he's gonna spare you then murders you, instead?

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Do you mean like when he pretends he's gonna spare you then murders you, instead? </div>

Frisk didn't murder over a hundred people in this case.

 

[Wokistan]

Ozone thing is probably more along the lines of characters that can breathe in space, if anything.

It's really not notable though. When is that going to come up?

Eh, I don't really care about this one, you may be right

Considering that the entire point of her expirsments with DT were about ressurection....

Already explained why not

No opinion here either

It being a joke in the sense Azzy is saying precludes it from being a feat, also sleeping fast is not resistance to sleep manip

Dodecahedrons are not that obscure a shape, and chara doesn't comment on that because Chara is in permanent serious mode that removes most of the little jokes like that. Idk about language stuff or moves, except half those moves would be useless and they're all context specific.

 

[Jinsye]

By the way

>Photoshop Flowey is nothing to you

Then how come PF was an actual fight with some difficulty?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Then how come PF was an actual fight with some difficulty?

More like "kicks the absolute shit out of you until the SOULs start to rebel and drop his defense to 0".

 

[Wokistan]

Maybe he means you as in the player, which I guess isn't wrong? A video game can't really hurt you, after all, people who played for like 50 hours on end nonwithstsnding.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Even that might not be accurate, though. Chara is canonically comparable to the player, lore-wise.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

By the way
>Photoshop Flowey is nothing to you

Then how come PF was an actual fight with some difficulty?

Because Frisk has obviously gotten stronger than she was in their first fight.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

So, to make sure this doesn't turn into a vicious cycle, what, of the stuff I posted on, can be added to the Frisk page?

 

[Overlord775]

Sans has never even seen Photoshop Flowey, so with " this weirdo's got notthing on you" he's referring to base Flowey

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Sans has never even seen Photoshop Flowey, so with " this weirdo's got notthing on you" he's referring to base Flowey

Photoshop Flowey mentioned that he absorbed the 6 SOULs earlier in the same scene.