• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Huge Rakudai Downgrade Pt. 1

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sir_Ovens

Sir_Ovens

Resident Kitchen Appliance
VS Battles
Administrator
16,026
9,270
Right. I wanted to downgrade Rakudai all at once, but I figured it'd take too long for me to get there. Anyway, the time has come for us to take the behemoth down piece by piece, starting with its glaring problem.

For the longest time, Rakudai (the LN) has been fan translated and left without official translations. These translations were done for 12 volumes. The issue? There are 17 volumes of Rakudai currently. But Ovens, how are the profiles up to date if only 12 volumes have been translated? The answer is simple. The scans detailing feats for most of the profiles are ripped from the Rakudai wiki.

Currently, the Rakudai wiki is offering detailed summaries of chapters 13 through 17. The issue is that these summaries lack crucial dialogue and don't offer us objective detail of feats presented to us. This, of course, should not be the case. We should not base our stats off of unofficial material, especially not a place where anyone can edit the content.

As such, I recommend we remove any and all stats and pages that derive from volume 13 onwards until such a time the volumes are properly translated either by fanlations, or us, should our multilingual team be so kind.

That is all for now
 
>Huge downgrade

>Literally nothing will be downgraded.

The only thing that can even happen is removals of profiles/keys. Nothing will change.

But anyway to shed some light on this "summaries", because that is HEAVILY misleading.

1. The summaries are so detailed and accurate it is almost scary. Here's an example:

Summmary: It is the highest place on Earth with an altitude of 9,350 meters. The place is made of permafrost and is always below freezing temperature with cold wind blowing. Edelweiss then says Ikki's sword skills are near perfection but the way he uses his mana is still immature and far from perfection.

Translation:

― Yes. The Edelberg's summit. This is the highest place on Earth, the best spot to train your unfinished parts over and over.

9,350 meters above sea level. The summit of《Kenhou》Edelberg was… ice.

The pointed ends of the permafrost sharpened keenly by the cold wind that constantly blew against it and the temperature that never exceeded the point below freezing not even for an instant.

Edelweiss, who lay her hands on its substructure, pointed out.

― Like I said earlier, Ikki's sword technique is already at the limits of perfection. Even if you were to train and focus on that here, there won't be too much room for growth, don't you think? … However, your way of using your magic power, on the other hand, is still regular. It's far away from perfection.

They're detailed down to exact numbers like "9350 meters", almost the same words, with very detailed info on what is happening etc. It's not like some sort of synopsis.

2. These summaries are created by the same dudes who translate the novels in the first place. So they are to be trusted as it's not done by random fans.

3. We never used the summaries for anything excessive. At least not anything the summaries could mess up. Example, we scale Stella above Xiaoli in AP because she beat Xiaoli, something which you just cannot mess up if you wanted to. We say Or-Gaule has immortality type 2, because he could survive hits to the brain without worrying? How is that reliable? Well...the scan shows its true. So it is not like we're giving anything off of words.
 
We do not take scans from wikis no matter the context. This is common sense. The pages may be detailed, but some crutial information could be lost in the translation. No, I do not mean it literally, I mean we don't have point of view dialogue or monologues. We don't know if their translation is accurate because it's not official, and it's made worse because the scans aren't even from the novel proper, it's just detailed descriptions of what's going on and not what's actually going on.

The fact that this has seeped through the cracks is a sign that we should look at Rakudai with much more scrutiny.
 
Scans from summaries made by the translators.

We never used point of view of dialogue to give abilities or scaling. So i don't get your issue.

Also detailed explanations of what's going on is not what is actually going on? Im not sure i get your point here, you're not even saying they're "incomplete", but straight up wrong? I hope you read the example i gave above.
 
What I'm saying is that we have standards, and we don't break them or give exceptions to them. We aren't going to start doing it for any other verse, so why should Rakudai? I get that the people translating the first 12 volumes made the summaries, but that doesn't give them a free pass. It's still paraphrasing.
 
Yes, but as i said, we are not giving them anything that would be hidden in the exact words/dialogue (even though most of the times the word usage is the same). So again, we're not giving them anything that has a chance to be incomplete or wrong.

We have standards because it can lead to problems, if there are no issues with it, then there are no issues no matter what standards say.

Im fine doing it with verses that are in the same situation as rakudai. The information can't be wrong, and we're not being based on words that could be misleading, only overall events. Which are proven to be correct.
 
>Alovenas got 1-A without the part of her novel with the 1-A justification being translated

>Haju literally exists

Applying this to Rakudai but giving those 2 a pass is extremely weird, specially given the 2 I just mentioned use information that no fan nor company has fully translated as a mean to be Tier 1.
 
This is really not about "agreeing" as much as it is about actually finding problems within it. Which i am still waiting for, the problems that is.
 
You do realize that there are like a dozen people who have gone through K3 themselves right

and Alovenas is under heavy scrutiny rn
 
Alf worked on Alovenas and he's a multilingual member.

Again, Alf played a big part in the making of most Dies Irae profiles.

If you want the scans to remain, get a multilingual member to doctor them.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
This is really not about "agreeing" as much as it is about actually finding problems within it. Which i am still waiting for, the problems that is.
Click to expand...
The problems are self-evident

Scans from a separate wiki have been used over actual scans from the LN, Manga, or Anima

We have never allowed this, nor is Rakudai suddenly an exception

Perceived accuracy doesn't matter when as far as we know the guys who put it on that wiki are intentionally wanking the verse
 
Hl3 or bust said:
You do realize that there are like a dozen people who have gone through K3 themselves right
Click to expand...
I'm a Shinza fan, of course I know the people who have read it. That doesn't change what I said in the slightless
 
This is common sense. How has this not been followed?
 
I'm a Shinza fan, of course I know the people who have read it. That doesn't change what I said in the slightless

Except that no one is using scans from another wiki, which is the issue at hand

They use scans straight from the VN itself
 
We literally had a team of Japanese speakers doing the work for Shinza when Hajun was created and still was updated with the help of members who have read the work and have given scans along with TL'd.

He doesn't compare to Alovenas or this.
 
Tony di bugalu said:
He doesn't compare to Alovenas or this.
Click to expand...
In what way Hajun doesn't compare to Alovenas? Both are characters from obscure works where some people translated only the quotes they wanted to give them a high tier.
 
The fact that Hajun got scans, quotes and translations from members of this community unlike the Alovenas one where it was TL by who know who, from my part I didn't saw any scan and the fact that is getting heavily contested right now.
 
I seriously doubt you even checked the Alovenas threads if you say she didn't have any scans, because her case is basically the same that happened with KKK.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
So if an author writes some quotes on the wiki. They're not ok because "they're from another wiki"?
Click to expand...
We use another wiki on which Masada himself edits as an argument for Shinza, so guess.
 
I mean, if the author himself edits there and checks it there is no problem, the problem comes from taking fan TL'd text from there and using it here.
 
He is taking it from another wiki in which the translator of the novel edits and the translator put scans of the summaries and those are the ones we use, which is the problem again?
 
But it is edited by the translator of the novel. So by your logic, if we check the history of the page, and take only what he added and nothing more, would it be better?
 
Okay, so:

I can only think of two wikis that could conceivably be used at all just raw, and even that is with caveats.

The first one is the Madness Combat wiki. This is because the creators of Madness Combat apparently use it to fact check. However, that doesn't mean they can't be wrong, and that we wouldn't at least try to look for it in the actual videos. If there was a thing on the wiki that could not be found in the verse and was unsourced, I don't think we'd use it.

The other one is the Worm wiki, because Wildbow, the author of Worm and Ward, has made some edits there. Those would just be treated like WoG. This means just like any other WoG, they'd get discarded if they're just totally unsupported by the verse.

The commonality here is that in both cases, the work is actually available to check these things against and they're actually verified by the authors. Basically, we don't even need to use them anyways. Without both things to work off of, it's a no. Here, we don't have translated versions of the actual media and there's just a wiki summary to go off of, and a summary not being the full context can be very important. A summary could be something like (The Number Ma destroys the Cauldron Compount) and you could be all like "oh wow cool tier 8/7 or whatever" which is an issue, because further context in the actual work brings it down to 9-B and done with hand grenades. At best this is the equivalent of unverifiable WoG and would still be probably not used.
 
To be honest, I don't really see what's the big deal. Ovens simply requested that the ratings be removed because the supposed evidence for them are summaries from an unofficial source - it just doesn't fit in our standards. That's all. Just get the actual scans checked by a multilingual member.

And to people who keep bringing up Shinza: This is, like, not necessary at all. Why do you insist on "applying the same" on a verse that isn't violating our standards in the first place. Shinza supporters cite the actual scans and provide translations and context for them. They even had multiple multilingual staff members looked at it to make certain.

Also, @wiki is where Masada info-dumps his fans. It's an official source. You can ask any Masada fan to confirm this. Furthermore, most of the content that we use are already in the game itself, so I don't see a point, really.

In all seriousness, the only thing the two has in common is that both are obscure and untranslated in certain parts, which isn't what we're even addressing.

As for Alovenas, "not seeing a difference" - Excuse me, have you really checked the thread? The sheer difference in the number of staff members involved was overwhelmingly obvious. Then again, actual excerpts were cited, not summaries.

EDIT: Ovens even stated multiple times in this thread that using fan translation is fine. You just need to have them doctor'd by our reliable members.
 
I feel like both Shinza and Alovenas should not be discussed here, they are not relevant and if someone has an issue with either a seperate thread for it should be made.
 
So there are 2 possible solutions here:

1. Have Alf (if he's willing to cooperate), check out the profiles (since he is a reader of the raw novels). If he finds any problems they can be fixed.

2. Check the first "edit" on the summaries and see if the profiles are still correct according to the first edits.

We can go either of these 2 ways, i don't care which, you can choose by votes.
 
@Firephoenixearl

While I don't know if anything has been decided on this thread, the first option you suggested is completely out of the question. Alf already has a lot of things to worry about. Please don't bother him with wiki thingies.

Having said that, I meant no offense to anyone in my previous post. (in case anyone misunderstands my tone) Now I'll see myself out.

@Sir Ovens

While Alf has indeed played a big part in making profiles and helping out with revisions for Shinza. Alf doesn't really know about Alovenas. He told me he barely knows anything about the series besides some superficial information.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

TISSG7Redgrave
  • Locked
Rakudai: Wtf is this???
Replies
26
Views
4K
TISSG7Redgrave
TISSG7Redgrave
AshMcXuelan23
H1C Rakudai Kishi no Cavalry
2 3 4
Replies
128
Views
10K
AshMcXuelan23
AshMcXuelan23
Experiment12
  • Article
1A Chavalry of a failed knight
Replies
8
Views
2K
Shereen
Shereen
StorytellingDemonKing
Rakudai Kishi no Cavalry deletion
2 3
Replies
119
Views
9K
Tetsuya1029
Tetsuya1029
AshMcXuelan23
Some Upgrade Rakudai Kishi no Cavalry
Replies
26
Views
5K
AshMcXuelan23
AshMcXuelan23
Back
Top