Huge Legend of Zelda Upgrades

[ZephyrosOmega]

Believe me, this is a decision that deeply pains me

 

[Theglassman12]

@AshenCrow777 check this before you make any claims they're parallel worlds. They're just labelled as a kingdom, not parallel worlds.

 

[AshenCrow777]

Dude we literally have fire emblem warriors rated high despite the fact it purposely follows the same plot has Hyrule warriors at least Cia actually shows the worlds merging.


The connections to the portals dosent even matter Jesus christ


Have you actually watched the video I sent?



Literally watch the whole video or skip to the end.

Phantom Ganondorf with the Triforce of Power not only merged the adult timeline to the Hyrule warriors one he warped reality and also merged the great sea to it.


They literally say during the video that they destroyed all the portals but despite that the timelines and universes were still merged to each other.

They needed the power of the Full Triforce to properly separate both worlds and timelines.

Which isn't surprising since now we know that the TF in age of calamity has the ability to create a new timeline.

In the main story of Hyrule warriors even after defeating Cia, Ganon and destroying the gates of souls they (dimensions) were still here in the present.

The portals were just there to supply monsters and get Ganondorf's soul fragments that's it.

But each era can still exist independently from the portals because THEY DON'T MATTER.

 

[AshenCrow777]

Why are we assuming Yuga wanted to destroy both space-times instead of just conquering or destroying both kingdoms?

No one is assuming anything aside from you last time I checked consuming does not mean conquering

con·sumed, con·sum·ing. to destroy or expend by use; use up. to eat or drink up; devour. to destroy,

 

[AshenCrow777]

She literally says he wants to consume our worlds (not just kingdoms).

And yes lorule is parallel to the kingdom of Hyrule but the world of Lorule is literally a parallel to the world of hyrule

Hence the reason why it's in a separate box.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Appetite can also refer to greed or a desire to conquer, which is consistent given her nature as

yknow

alt ganon

Dude we literally have fire emblem warriors rated high despite the fact it purposely follows the same plot has Hyrule warriors at least Cia actually shows the worlds merging.

At least Universe level+ (Can manipulate time and space on a universal scale and consume entire dimensions)

That's what gives them their Low 2-C rating. nothing about merging worlds.

The connections to the portals dosent even matter Jesus christ

Have you actually watched the video I sent?



Literally watch the whole video or skip to the end.

Phantom Ganondorf with the Triforce of Power not only merged the adult timeline to the Hyrule warriors one he warped reality and also merged the great sea to it.

They literally say during the video that they destroyed all the portals but despite that the timelines and universes were still merged to each other.

They needed the power of the Full Triforce to properly separate both worlds and timelines.

Which isn't surprising since now we know that the TF in age of calamity has the ability to create a new timeline.

In the main story of Hyrule warriors even after defeating Cia, Ganon and destroying the gates of souls they (dimensions) were still here in the present.

The portals were just there to supply monsters and get Ganondorf's soul fragments that's it.

But each era can still exist independently from the portals because THEY DON'T MATTER.

None of this has anything to do with them, being 2-C. It just confirms low multiversal range and that the regions were brought into the world, which is exactly what I already stated.

She literally says he wants to consume our worlds (not just kingdoms).

And yes lorule is parallel to the kingdom of Hyrule but the world of Lorule is literally a parallel to the world of hyrule

Hence the reason why it's in a separate box.

Why would Hilda be referring to the two universes here? She clearly refers to the kingdoms when she immediately specifies Hyrule and Lorule. At best this would be referring to the planets, but not the entire universes. There's also:

-A completely unknown length of time, or if she's even destroying both at once

-The fact that this is a very flowery statement, yuga's not kirby she's not going to literally eat the universes

 

[Theglassman12]

the separate box means jack shit when the box in question is labelled as a kingdom.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I actually recall previous discussions mentioning Lorule being located an "An alternate dimension" from Hyrule. While I do not remember a "Parallel Dimension" it is no secret that Lorule is commonly seen as a mirror world to Hyrule. And Hyrule has a pretty flexible definition; it's often used to refer to the kingdom while also used to described the "Light World" or body of space containing Hyrule.

But I haven't played Age of Calamity, but have heard some great things about it; it's clearly a Low Multiversal range feat at bare minimum. But if he's specifically merging the "Dimensions" or "Entire Worlds" then I can see it being more in the line. Also, to clarify a confusion, I believe AshenCrow meant Fire Emblem Heroes, not Warriors. But so far, the Age of Calamity feat looks more like what Dark Kahn does.

 

[AshenCrow777]

But I haven't played Age of Calamity, but have heard some great things about it; it's clearly a Low Multiversal range feat at bare minimum. But if he's specifically merging the "Dimensions" or "Entire Worlds" then I can see it being more in the line. Also, to clarify a confusion, I believe AshenCrow meant Fire Emblem Heroes, not Warriors. But so far, the Age of Calamity feat looks more like what Dark Kahn does.

Yeah that's what I meant also yeah and the feat is similar to Dark Kahn.

 

[Antvasima]

All staff members:

So what should we do here?

 

[Dust_Collector]

Bumping this to get the ball rolling again.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Btw just to give my piece on the Hyrule Warriors stuff, I think I'm leaning more towards agreeing with Zeph but I ain't too knowledgeable on the game so eh.

 

[Theglassman12]

Already said I'm ok with the 4-A, 3-A and Low 2-C stuff, still not buying the 2-C rating.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Bumping this once again. To sum up what people are agreeing with so far we have several people including 3 staff members agreeing with the 5-B characters being bumped up to 4-A/3-A/Low 2-C and the BOTW Characters scaling to the complete Triforce with no disagreements from what I can see.

Only points of contention so far have been the Hyrule Warriors and Twilight Princess stuff.

 

[Chariot190]

BOTW Characters scaling to the complete Triforce

Scaling Zelda makes sense for obvious reasons, but should Link and Ganon really scale? At least, for the moment.

 

[Theglassman12]

I don't see why they would scale at all unless there's something I missed that implied BOTW link had the triforce.

 

[Antvasima]

@Elizhaa @Eficiente @Firestorm808 @The_real_cal_howard @DarkDragonMedeus

What do you think should be done here?

 

[Antvasima]

To sum up what people are agreeing with so far we have several people including 3 staff members agreeing with the 5-B characters being bumped up to 4-A/3-A/Low 2-C and the BOTW Characters scaling to the complete Triforce with no disagreements from what I can see.

Only points of contention so far have been the Hyrule Warriors and Twilight Princess stuff.

See here regarding what needs your input.

 

[Chariot190]

I don't see why they would scale at all unless there's something I missed that implied BOTW link had the triforce.

I was more implying we hold off till BOTW2 when it comes out in the next decade.
There really isn't anything in base BOTW that implies the Triforce scales to Link and Ganon, in fact, it's shown to be way above them, it basically one shots Ganon even. Unless we do AoC scaling, in which yeah, there's some semblance of scaling there, albeit backscaling, but if we don't treat that as canon then there's nothing in the base game.

 

[Theglassman12]

In that case I'm all for waiting for BOTW 2 to get more clarification before we make any scaling, though I doubt it's gonna take as long as the entire FF7 remake to be released.

 

[Dust_Collector]

I was more implying we hold off till BOTW2 when it comes out in the next decade.
There really isn't anything in base BOTW that implies the Triforce scales to Link and Ganon, in fact, it's shown to be way above them, it basically one shots Ganon even. Unless we do AoC scaling, in which yeah, there's some semblance of scaling there, albeit backscaling, but if we don't treat that as canon then there's nothing in the base game.

Ganon stalemated Zeldas power for 100 years before eventually gaining too much power for her to keep him sealed and only got overpowered by her after he got weakened by the combined effort of her and Link.

 

[Chariot190]

Ganon stalemated Zeldas power for 100 years before eventually gaining too much power for her to keep him sealed and only got overpowered by her after he got weakened by the combined effort of her and Link.

Not really, it was more like, Zelda kept his ass at bay unable to escape for 100 years, it wasn't really stalemating in that they were equals, she just happened to exhaust herself after 100 years, of course his growing power helped, but her weakening also played a role. And even then, that's a seal, not raw power.
Couple that with the Triforce one shotting him and obliterating him the moment she got released at the end of the game, eh, I dont know man. It's pretty obvious that in raw power, Calamity Ganon ain't shit compared to it. Unless we use AoC scaling, base BOTW doesn't exactly have enough solid evidence to where it's 100% safe to scale.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Yeah she one shot him at the end of the game but after both her and Link defeated his Dark Beast form first, he had just been defeated in battle so he wouldn't be at his peak, plus if she could just one shot and destroy him at any point she wanted to then she would've done so when she first confronted him as opposed to exhausting herself keeping him stuck in Hyrule Castle.

But I can understand why using BOTW by itself can be a little shakey, but since AOC is canon we should focus on the scaling from that game.

 

[Theglassman12]

You do know Zelda as a whole is filled with "why didn't they do that" moments right? This is nothing new to the series.

 

[Chariot190]

Yeah she one shot him at the end of the game but after both her and Link defeated his Dark Beast form first, he had just been defeated in battle so he wouldn't be at his peak,

Doesn't really add up given she wasn't exactly in peak condition herself, yet she one shot Ganon. Though, that also doesn't matter a whole lot either, the Triforce isn't exactly scaling with stamina and Calamity Ganon wasn't exactly that weakened given he immediately went in on the attack again and given the nature of malice, I doubt it effected his power much anyway.

plus if she could just one shot and destroy him at any point she wanted to then she would've done so when she first confronted him as opposed to exhausting herself keeping him stuck in Hyrule Castle.

And yet she did. The Triforce obliterated Ganon in one shot at the end of the game, her not doing it prior doesn't really matter because she never tried to do it prior. Why? Who knows but she didn't, you could probably chalk it up to her barely knowing how to use it maybe? But her not using it doesn't mean she couldn't have one shot.

And this wouldn't matter either way, because in AoC it takes a Calamity Ganon on roids to compare to it, meaning, if the giga roided Ganon is about equal with the Triforce, and his base form in BOTW is vastly weaker, then he's liable to be one shot regardless of the circumstances if his super giga powerful form that absolutely nobody could even hurt initially is comparable to it and had to be weakened twice over before he could even be harmed.
That Calamity Ganon can scale but the one in BOTW I'm against scaling now that I look at how his amped form compared.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Was gonna make a response but after reading Breath of the Wild Creating a Champion I ain't even sold on Zelda having the Triforces power anymore. The book itself directly calls into question about her actually having it, so until more info comes from BOTW2 I don't agree with anyone in BOTW/AOC, Zelda included, scaling to the Triforce.

Although once I make my Master Sword thread, not doing it here since we already have a large chunk of stuff to deal with and I don't want to add more things on top of that, the BOTW/AOC characters will scale to the 4-A/3-A/Low 2-C stuff so they should hopefully get upgraded from High 6-A soon anyway.

 

[Chariot190]

In AoC it's stated iirc she has the Triforce (or rather the "power" she was trying to awaken was the Triforce). In base BOTW it's incredibly vague though. So again, it depends entirely on if we use AoC, but even if we do, it'd only be roided Ganon scaling, and like, maybe Link to a fraction due to the feats and scaling portrayed in that game.

Though, High 6-A AP is a bit sus, if for no other reason then the Master Sword shreds ******* like Vaati or base Ganondorf, and BOTW Link has it.

 

[Theglassman12]

Vaati was beaten by the 4 swords though, and isn’t the power of the master sword greatly different depending on the state it’s in? Cause the master sword in BOTW wasn’t even at its peak.

 

[Chariot190]

Vaati was beaten by the 4 swords though, and isn’t the power of the master sword greatly different depending on the state it’s in? Cause the master sword in BOTW wasn’t even at its peak.

I was saying those around his level if not higher, not that he himself was killed by it, Vaati, Ganon, Demise, etc.
And indeed, the Master Sword in BOTW was massively weakened, but the DLC Trials added, well, a trial, that allows Link to get the Master Sword back up to it's peak power more or less.

 

[Dust_Collector]

In AoC it's stated iirc she has the Triforce (or rather the "power" she was trying to awaken was the Triforce). In base BOTW it's incredibly vague though. So again, it depends entirely on if we use AoC, but even if we do, it'd only be roided Ganon scaling, and like, maybe Link to a fraction due to the feats and scaling portrayed in that game.

AOC just says she's trying to awaken her sealing powers without mentioning the Triforce afaik so it's about as vague as BOTW is with it.

Vaati was beaten by the 4 swords though, and isn’t the power of the master sword greatly different depending on the state it’s in? Cause the master sword in BOTW wasn’t even at its peak.

The Master Sword initially wasn't at it's peak but after the Master Trials it get's restored back to full power. And even without those trials the Master Sword still activates it's full power when around the Calamity.

Edit: Ninja'd by Chariot.

 

[Theglassman12]

I’d rather wait for BOTW 2 in case there’s any confirmations Link did need the master sword to beat Ganon then some assumptions, considering the master sword is optional and you can beat him without it.

 

[Dust_Collector]

I’d rather wait for BOTW 2 in case there’s any confirmations Link did need the master sword to beat Ganon then some assumptions, considering the master sword is optional and you can beat him without it.

You don't even get the true ending unless you free all the champions and get the Master Sword. Plus the Creating a Champion guidebook also confirms he has the Master Sword during the final battle with Ganon.

 

[Theglassman12]

Hmm, I guess I can see it but did they reference link going through the trials at all? If not I don’t see High 6-A BOTW going away

 

[Dust_Collector]

I don't think the book mentions any of the DLC whatsoever, it only focuses on the main game (The book was being written before the DLC was released so they likely didn't have time to add any of it in). Doesn't matter since like I said earlier the Master Sword activates it's full power around the Calamity regardless of the trials, the trials is just so it has it's full power 24/7.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, I think waiting for BOTW2 to come out might be a good idea. And the 4-A, 3-A, and Low 2-C stuff appear legit. But I have not look well into the 2-C stuff but should note it's range at the very least.

 

[MysticMania]

I agree with waiting but dang

see yall in like, 5 years

 

[Antvasima]

So what needs to be done here based on the latest conclusions?

 

[Dust_Collector]

So what needs to be done here based on the latest conclusions?

So far everyone, including 3 staff members, agree with the 4-A, likely 3-A to Low 2-C upgrades for all the characters that are currently 5-B except for Majoras first key. So we need more staff input for it unless this is enough to carry through with the upgrades.

All the 2-C stuff hasn't been accepted by many people and it looks like we're not scaling the BOTW characters to the Triforce (although they will be getting their own thread to be upgraded above High 6-A in the near future), so for that unless the people in favour of those ratings want to continue arguing then those ratings can't be applied at the moment.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the summary. Which staff members agree with the upgrades?

 

[Dust_Collector]

Glassman, DarkDragon, and Elizhaa