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I guess in terms of revision threads I am officially the Honkai man because I always do this stuff
Anyway let’s get straight into this because I’m going to type a lot today.
New accepted Calculations/recalcs
Arc City Reactor upgrade - 8.75 Teratons (Country level)
Sirin Meteor AP - 6.31 Petatons (Multi-Continent level)
Sirin's Telekinesis - 2.9591836734694E+19 kg (Class E)
Fu Hua reacts to Sirin's Gamma beams - 2.7% Speed of Light (Sub-Relativistic) combat speed, 1.46078 Nanoseconds (FTL) reactions
1. Arc City bomb upgrade along with Pseudo Herrscher Scaling
Starting with the non controversial stuff
Recently the Arc City Bomb was upgraded from Large Island level+ to Country level so who would scale to At least Country level
Wendy is stronger than Pseudo Herrschers like Avora due to having the true Gem of Desire and being the true Wind Herrscher, Knight Moonbeam Sirin has the true Gem of Serenity so the same applies to her.
50% of 8.75 Teratons would be 4.38 Teratons (Small Country level+) so which notable characters scale
Murata Ryusuke terrified 65% Welt Yang which made him make the comment that a presence was stronger than Judgement class Honkai Beast. 65% of 8.75 Teratons is 5.69 Teratons so he will be "At least Small Country level+, likely Country level".
And What Happens to BoS Characters like White Comet Kiana?
They will be downscaled to baseline Small country level 1 Teraton (Low 6-B). Otto states Pseudo Herrschers can only be slowed down by A rankers and nothing more. And also Calls Fu Hua who is much stronger as an A ranker fodder. Coupled with how in 3 v 1 where Wendy was holding back due to her arrogance but Kiana, Mei and Bronya could still soften her up a bit for Cocolia downscaling them would be best in my opinion.
Edit: Oh I missed something
Forgot to mention Sirin’s Overload Calc shouldn’t be credited to her God Empowered Key but rather her initial Key as just the void core did that
Although since it wasn’t instantaneous it will not upgrade her overall stats in her first key
She will be At least 6-B, 6-A with Overload.
Should be fine
2. Sirin's Meteor and scaling for Kevin
Sirin's Meteor was 6.31 Petatons/High 6-A
All the characters/God Keys that are "At least 6-A likely High 6-A" prior will get upgraded to 6.31 Petatons
In a previous revision we agreed to scale Durandal to 1% of Kevin, Durandal can fight the HoV according to Otto, Sirin at that point was stronger than anything Tesla's sensors had picked up before despite Tesla being there in Siberia. So Sirin during the Battle of Schicksal>God Empowered + Reason core.
However Durandal got stronger since fighting the 1% Kevin ELF by that point
So Kevin, Herrscher of Sentience and Kiana's HoV form during Ch 22 will be 631 Teratons however they will lose their "At least" as they aren't just scaling above Siegfried and Due to Durandal getting stronger overtime.
3.Sirin's Lifting strength
Sirin’s LS was calculated to be Class E, but this was done through Telekinesis which she is never shown using directly on anyone.
However Sirin got physically overpowered by Siegfried and was incapable of forcing him off of her
So should her TK scale to physicals?
if so then
Siegfried scales
Kevin scales due to being stronger than Siegfried
HoS scales due to Fu Hua being overall comparable to Kevin during her prime
And a few others I’m probably missing but not many
4. The Bloody Gamma beams
Sigh, ok let’s go over Knight Moonbeams’ beams
Well are they light and is the Calc valid
Evidence of it being lightspeed or being light
Ok so is it legit or not now we can decide based on evidence and counter evidence provided. (Idk maybe I’m being too strict with the light thing and maybe other verses get their light accepted for far less)
Who would scale if it is accepted as light is anyone who should scale to Shadow Knight Fu Hua which is a couple of people which are super obvious. Although it should be noted Void Drifter (Ch 14) and Benares scale to this as well
Also, If this is accepted then the Welt Clone side stepping Gungnir can be calculated so long as its not a mega outlier.
5.Deconstruction for Thunder Core users
During the London Holiday comic Otto got shot by the 3rd God Key which reduced his body to atoms
Very simple
This is Deconstruction for Mei and Benares’ lightning.
6.Extraordinary Genius Rating for Welt
What feats does Welt have that warrant him being upgraded from his current Genius rating?
The Herrscher of Reason Core allows the user to create/alter/mimic what they understand
As shown in the recent chapters to create something semi accurately you have to understand it extremely in depth down to the smallest of details. And he calls out Bronya for being unable to accurately recreate a German Handgun due to not understanding its internals and having to fill in the blanks based on other Guns
On the spot her can use his herrscher powers to interact with Sirin’s 11-D Barriers which can block any physical attack/interaction and get through them
In Alien space he can think in higher dimensions as well
He can recreate Sirin’s Void barriers accurately to block higher dimensional attacks after learning to think in higher dimensions
He is capable of Creating the Star of Eden a complex and powerful Gravity weapon from the far more advanced Previous Era that can create Quasi Black Holes and increase the Gravity by tens to thousands of times
And this weapon can even control the Singularity
He can make Mechas, Stealth planes and battle ships meaning he understands their internal components and what goes into making them too
Far more minor thing but even artistically/business wise he’s successful too
He has made a hit Mecha franchise that has raised so much money he could build a legit Mech that can fly to the moon so he is a decent writer and knows what will sell.
7.Photographic Memory for Reason core Users
Extremely basic HoR core users after making something once or viewing and object once they’ll never forget it with Bronya being able to perfectly recall her childhood of when she disassembled handguns and other weaponry
8.Cecilia gets resistance to Temperature Manip(Cold) and Radiation manipulation
Also simple Cecilia could survive standing on top of Helios when it was 51km above Sea level
This is within the Mesosphere where even at the bottom of it where Cecilia was temperature are firmly below 0 to -5 degrees coupled with how she’s literally in tights in those conditions and she should definitely have it
Also consistent with how Cecilia was fighting in Northern Siberia (During Winter as Second Eruption takes place in January-February) in this same limited clothing and wasnt effected at all
Radiation Manipulation is because the Mesosphere is above the Ozone Layer meaning there is nothing to absorb the Ultraviolet Radiation she was bombarded with. And she wasn’t effected so she gets resistance
9.Void Drifter is half the strength of the full HOV form?
The Herrscher of Sentience while insulting the strength of Bronya and Kiana refers to the two of them as "One and a Half Herrschers". This isn't a super direct Statement so is it consistent?
Well even according to scaling it adds up. Void Drifter Kiana in ch 14 scales to Rita who scales above 4.38 Teratons off of Wendy and Pseudo Herrschers. When she uses the full HoV form she scales above 8.75 Teratons. 2x Boost. With Jackal calling Kiana tapping into the full HOV an energy spike compared to how she was prior, although granted was still far weaker than sirin so it wasn't too outrageous.
When fighting the HoS she is clearly overwhelmed even with assistance with the HoS toying with her until the last portion of the battle. With the full form she went from being completely overwhelmed to somewhat keeping up but still being inferior.
And thematically Void Drifter is consistently portrayed as Kiana only using Half of her powers with the HoV form being her tapping into everything.
If this Multiplier was accepted how would Kiana be rated as well as Bronya
Ch 22 Herrscher of the Void = Downscales from the Herrscher of Sentience. At most 631 Teratons
Ch 22 Void Drifer = Half the strength of the HoV, At most 315.5 Petatons
HoR Bronya = On par with Void Drifter Kiana, At most 315.5 Petatons
10.A list of scaling
To end this off I have to say we have a lot of calcs and a lot of scaling so organizing something like this for the main verse page only benefits everyone(Other verses like Genshin Impact having it also made me think it is a decent idea. Especially someone with limited knowledge looking up who scales and also to organize the calcs based on said tierlist
A-Ranker tier: Can also be dubbed as "Low tiers" Anyone notable who is or is on the level of an A rank Valkyrie like White Comet Kiana and Crimson Impulse Mei. With the likes of Base Fu Hua and Cheng Lixue scaling above them. Low 6-B (1 Teraton)
S-Ranker tier: Can also be called "Mid tier". All S-Rankers are within this tier scaling above the likes of Wendy who is stronger than the Pseudo Herrschers. Whom scale to 50% of Sirin. With Emperor class Honkai downscaling off of this. Low 6-B+ (4.38 Teratons)
Above Judgement tier: Those who scale to the Arc City bomb or are notably stronger than Judgement class Honkai beasts like Murata Ryusuke. However they arent strong enough to be on the level of those in the true Herrscher tier like HoT Mei. At least 6-B (8.75 Teratons)
True Herrscher Tier: Can also be called "High tier" (or Durandal tier like Otto suggested) Those on par with the likes of Cecilia, Durandal or God Empowered Sirin. They scale off of Sirin's meteor fragment calculation. At least High 6-A , likely Higher (6.31 Petatons)
M.A.N.T.I.S Tier: Can also be called "Top tier" For those who scale to being 100x the strength of Durandal, off of a weaker Durandal keeping up with 1% of Kevin's power. Essentially those on par or who were the strongest fighters from the previous era, like Kevin Kaslana and Prime Fu Hua. High 6-A (631 Petatons)
And this should be it. I don't wanna type this much again.
Preferably agree with or respond to the things you disagree with or need a more complex opinion on in one go for my sake lol
Anyway let’s get straight into this because I’m going to type a lot today.
New accepted Calculations/recalcs
Arc City Reactor upgrade - 8.75 Teratons (Country level)
Sirin Meteor AP - 6.31 Petatons (Multi-Continent level)
Sirin's Telekinesis - 2.9591836734694E+19 kg (Class E)
Fu Hua reacts to Sirin's Gamma beams - 2.7% Speed of Light (Sub-Relativistic) combat speed, 1.46078 Nanoseconds (FTL) reactions
1. Arc City bomb upgrade along with Pseudo Herrscher Scaling
Starting with the non controversial stuff
Recently the Arc City Bomb was upgraded from Large Island level+ to Country level so who would scale to At least Country level
- Initial Appearance Sirin - Scales to the Arc City bomb off of Kiana who no sold the shockwave at nigh point blank range and absorbed its Honkai energy
- Welt Yang - Scales to Sirin
- Partial Transformation 3rd Herrscher - Her energy readings were on the level of Sirin's
- Otto - Literally one shot Galina, defeated a weakened Welt quite easily, Scales to Welt Joyce as shown in Otto's memory of the battle in 1955 (Who is stronger than Welt according to the WoTH)
- Kiana's full HoV Form during Ch 14 (For obvious reasons)
Wendy is stronger than Pseudo Herrschers like Avora due to having the true Gem of Desire and being the true Wind Herrscher, Knight Moonbeam Sirin has the true Gem of Serenity so the same applies to her.
50% of 8.75 Teratons would be 4.38 Teratons (Small Country level+) so which notable characters scale
- Psuedo Herrschers (Galina, Avora etc)
- Wendy (Stronger than Pseudo Herrschers)
- Knight Moonbeam Sirin (Also Stronger than Pseudo Herrschers)
- S Rankers like Theresa and Rita (Kiana was confident the likes of Wendy wouldn't be able to defeat an S ranker as approved in a prior revision)
- Siegfried Kaslana (Scales to S Rankers and somewhat harmed Otto)
- Void Drifter Kiana during Ch 14 (Was capable of keeping up with the likes of Rita who was in her best battlesuit)
- Benares (As a Judgement Class Honkai beast she should be far stronger than the Emperor Class Honkai beasts that gave Siegfried trouble), Bella (Far stronger than she was when she was a mindless Honkai Beast, Sirin believed she could low diff Siegfried)
- Shadow Knight Fu Hua (Defeated Knight Moonbeam Sirin in one punch with eclipse mode)
Murata Ryusuke terrified 65% Welt Yang which made him make the comment that a presence was stronger than Judgement class Honkai Beast. 65% of 8.75 Teratons is 5.69 Teratons so he will be "At least Small Country level+, likely Country level".
And What Happens to BoS Characters like White Comet Kiana?
They will be downscaled to baseline Small country level 1 Teraton (Low 6-B). Otto states Pseudo Herrschers can only be slowed down by A rankers and nothing more. And also Calls Fu Hua who is much stronger as an A ranker fodder. Coupled with how in 3 v 1 where Wendy was holding back due to her arrogance but Kiana, Mei and Bronya could still soften her up a bit for Cocolia downscaling them would be best in my opinion.
Edit: Oh I missed something
Forgot to mention Sirin’s Overload Calc shouldn’t be credited to her God Empowered Key but rather her initial Key as just the void core did that
Although since it wasn’t instantaneous it will not upgrade her overall stats in her first key
She will be At least 6-B, 6-A with Overload.
Should be fine
2. Sirin's Meteor and scaling for Kevin
Sirin's Meteor was 6.31 Petatons/High 6-A
All the characters/God Keys that are "At least 6-A likely High 6-A" prior will get upgraded to 6.31 Petatons
In a previous revision we agreed to scale Durandal to 1% of Kevin, Durandal can fight the HoV according to Otto, Sirin at that point was stronger than anything Tesla's sensors had picked up before despite Tesla being there in Siberia. So Sirin during the Battle of Schicksal>God Empowered + Reason core.
However Durandal got stronger since fighting the 1% Kevin ELF by that point
So Kevin, Herrscher of Sentience and Kiana's HoV form during Ch 22 will be 631 Teratons however they will lose their "At least" as they aren't just scaling above Siegfried and Due to Durandal getting stronger overtime.
3.Sirin's Lifting strength
Sirin’s LS was calculated to be Class E, but this was done through Telekinesis which she is never shown using directly on anyone.
However Sirin got physically overpowered by Siegfried and was incapable of forcing him off of her
So should her TK scale to physicals?
if so then
Siegfried scales
Kevin scales due to being stronger than Siegfried
HoS scales due to Fu Hua being overall comparable to Kevin during her prime
And a few others I’m probably missing but not many
4. The Bloody Gamma beams
Sigh, ok let’s go over Knight Moonbeams’ beams
Well are they light and is the Calc valid
Evidence of it being lightspeed or being light
- It is stated They’re hard countered by Pseudo Black holes because they are light
- Repeatedly called Gamma particles even BKE Durandal has the Gamma particles term used for her
- Photon like/based weapons are pretty common in the Honkai verse based off in game descriptions
- Doesn’t curve
- They literally explode in the scene that is calculated
- Earlier in the same chapter they’re fragmenting concrete
- Their speed is never mentioned outside of vaguely fast
- Not really accurate to how actual gamma rays behave at all especially since they don't phase through anything
- Doesn’t really diffuse with distance
Ok so is it legit or not now we can decide based on evidence and counter evidence provided. (Idk maybe I’m being too strict with the light thing and maybe other verses get their light accepted for far less)
Who would scale if it is accepted as light is anyone who should scale to Shadow Knight Fu Hua which is a couple of people which are super obvious. Although it should be noted Void Drifter (Ch 14) and Benares scale to this as well
Also, If this is accepted then the Welt Clone side stepping Gungnir can be calculated so long as its not a mega outlier.
5.Deconstruction for Thunder Core users
During the London Holiday comic Otto got shot by the 3rd God Key which reduced his body to atoms
Very simple
This is Deconstruction for Mei and Benares’ lightning.
6.Extraordinary Genius Rating for Welt
What feats does Welt have that warrant him being upgraded from his current Genius rating?
The Herrscher of Reason Core allows the user to create/alter/mimic what they understand
As shown in the recent chapters to create something semi accurately you have to understand it extremely in depth down to the smallest of details. And he calls out Bronya for being unable to accurately recreate a German Handgun due to not understanding its internals and having to fill in the blanks based on other Guns
On the spot her can use his herrscher powers to interact with Sirin’s 11-D Barriers which can block any physical attack/interaction and get through them
In Alien space he can think in higher dimensions as well
He can recreate Sirin’s Void barriers accurately to block higher dimensional attacks after learning to think in higher dimensions
He is capable of Creating the Star of Eden a complex and powerful Gravity weapon from the far more advanced Previous Era that can create Quasi Black Holes and increase the Gravity by tens to thousands of times
And this weapon can even control the Singularity
He can make Mechas, Stealth planes and battle ships meaning he understands their internal components and what goes into making them too
Far more minor thing but even artistically/business wise he’s successful too
He has made a hit Mecha franchise that has raised so much money he could build a legit Mech that can fly to the moon so he is a decent writer and knows what will sell.
7.Photographic Memory for Reason core Users
Extremely basic HoR core users after making something once or viewing and object once they’ll never forget it with Bronya being able to perfectly recall her childhood of when she disassembled handguns and other weaponry
8.Cecilia gets resistance to Temperature Manip(Cold) and Radiation manipulation
Also simple Cecilia could survive standing on top of Helios when it was 51km above Sea level
This is within the Mesosphere where even at the bottom of it where Cecilia was temperature are firmly below 0 to -5 degrees coupled with how she’s literally in tights in those conditions and she should definitely have it
Also consistent with how Cecilia was fighting in Northern Siberia (During Winter as Second Eruption takes place in January-February) in this same limited clothing and wasnt effected at all
Radiation Manipulation is because the Mesosphere is above the Ozone Layer meaning there is nothing to absorb the Ultraviolet Radiation she was bombarded with. And she wasn’t effected so she gets resistance
9.Void Drifter is half the strength of the full HOV form?
The Herrscher of Sentience while insulting the strength of Bronya and Kiana refers to the two of them as "One and a Half Herrschers". This isn't a super direct Statement so is it consistent?
Well even according to scaling it adds up. Void Drifter Kiana in ch 14 scales to Rita who scales above 4.38 Teratons off of Wendy and Pseudo Herrschers. When she uses the full HoV form she scales above 8.75 Teratons. 2x Boost. With Jackal calling Kiana tapping into the full HOV an energy spike compared to how she was prior, although granted was still far weaker than sirin so it wasn't too outrageous.
When fighting the HoS she is clearly overwhelmed even with assistance with the HoS toying with her until the last portion of the battle. With the full form she went from being completely overwhelmed to somewhat keeping up but still being inferior.
And thematically Void Drifter is consistently portrayed as Kiana only using Half of her powers with the HoV form being her tapping into everything.
If this Multiplier was accepted how would Kiana be rated as well as Bronya
Ch 22 Herrscher of the Void = Downscales from the Herrscher of Sentience. At most 631 Teratons
Ch 22 Void Drifer = Half the strength of the HoV, At most 315.5 Petatons
HoR Bronya = On par with Void Drifter Kiana, At most 315.5 Petatons
10.A list of scaling
To end this off I have to say we have a lot of calcs and a lot of scaling so organizing something like this for the main verse page only benefits everyone(Other verses like Genshin Impact having it also made me think it is a decent idea. Especially someone with limited knowledge looking up who scales and also to organize the calcs based on said tierlist
A-Ranker tier: Can also be dubbed as "Low tiers" Anyone notable who is or is on the level of an A rank Valkyrie like White Comet Kiana and Crimson Impulse Mei. With the likes of Base Fu Hua and Cheng Lixue scaling above them. Low 6-B (1 Teraton)
S-Ranker tier: Can also be called "Mid tier". All S-Rankers are within this tier scaling above the likes of Wendy who is stronger than the Pseudo Herrschers. Whom scale to 50% of Sirin. With Emperor class Honkai downscaling off of this. Low 6-B+ (4.38 Teratons)
Above Judgement tier: Those who scale to the Arc City bomb or are notably stronger than Judgement class Honkai beasts like Murata Ryusuke. However they arent strong enough to be on the level of those in the true Herrscher tier like HoT Mei. At least 6-B (8.75 Teratons)
True Herrscher Tier: Can also be called "High tier" (
M.A.N.T.I.S Tier: Can also be called "Top tier" For those who scale to being 100x the strength of Durandal, off of a weaker Durandal keeping up with 1% of Kevin's power. Essentially those on par or who were the strongest fighters from the previous era, like Kevin Kaslana and Prime Fu Hua. High 6-A (631 Petatons)
And this should be it. I don't wanna type this much again.
Preferably agree with or respond to the things you disagree with or need a more complex opinion on in one go for my sake lol
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