Removing 6C from Ayaka and Inazuma Traveler...

[Dog3352]

I can't believe Ayaka is rising to the level of God...

Starting with Traveler:

First: Yae Miko's training was just so that Traveler would know what Raiden's fighting style was like, so that he could become more skilled and have better chances against her, so Traveler definitely didn't get stronger.

Second: Traveler was the one who attacked Raiden with everything, Raiden just blocked and pushed Traveler with HUGE EASE, she didn't try to use all her strength there or try to beat Traveler, she just defended him and pushed him, Traveler still doesn't have the slightest chance against Raiden after training (he didn't even get stronger).


Now with Ayaka:

The main reason why Ayaka shouldn't have this scale is the obvious case of PIS in Genshin.

In Gesnhin, Traveler, even after defeating characters like Beisht and God Scaramouche, demonstrates/declares to have difficulty against characters or beings that are even below the city's level, whereas in Sumeru he/she can barely keep up with some thieves to save Nahida, in these cases obvious PIS.

Ayaka's case is clearly PIS, Ayaka is a human with vision and incredible swordsmanship talents, but to say that Ayaka is GOD LEVEL is simply an absurd exaggeration, and to say that in a mere dispute Inazuma has a GOD LEVEL puppet (Which, by the way, is the same type of puppet that the Traveler faced in event 1.6. not to mention the DOG, which was one of the ones that gave the Traveler the most difficulty.), it is obviously a case of PIS where they leave the Traveler more weak to have a story, casting Ayaka for this is like casting all of Sumeru's thieves, fatuis, among other absurdly weak characters that the Traveler has difficulty facing (Because of PIS) for 6C.

Just so you know, with the numerous cases of PIS in Genshin Impact, which can even take characters like Bennett and Razor to 6C, these cases that people can see as apparently PIS should be better seen, as everyone who supports Genshin is agreeing with cases like Ayaka's, it could even reach a point where almost all playable characters will be 6C, especially since it's not uncommon for Genshin to have an event where Traveler fights alongside a foraged character (against an even more foraged character). and apparently declares that the character is strong or helped him in the fight.

---

Agree: Setsuna_tenma, Gyannysmag (with Ayaka), Smashtwig, VortechsTG, Xmark12, Jackpact, SatellaTheWoE (with Ayaka), V999 (with Ayaka), Naitodesu (with Ayaka), CurrySenpai, Mr._Bambu, DarkDragonMedeus, Woomica (with Ayaka), Xmark12

Disagree:

Neutral: Gyannysmag (with Traveller), SatellaTheWoE (with Traveller), V999 (with Traveller), Naitodesu (with Traveller), Woomica (with Traveller)

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

agree

 

[Giannysmag]

Disagree with the Traveler downgrade, since post training the Traveler can tank a lightning attack from Ei that had one shot them pre training, so there is a clear stats amp here. I'm fine with the Ayaka downgrade tho, even in the rescaling thread a lot of people were iffy about that.

 

[Dog3352]

Disagree with the Traveler downgrade, since post training the Traveler can tank a lightning attack from Ei that had one shot them pre training, so there is a clear stats amp here. I'm fine with the Ayaka downgrade tho, even in the rescaling thread a lot of people were iffy about that.

The first one didn't even hit the Traveler, you can clearly see that the rays were just on the sword, besides, as I said, one of the points is the fact that Raiden clearly shows no difficulty in defending and pushing the Traveler, she clearly he is not using much of his power against the Traveler, especially in the second scene, where it is very obvious that the attack was not an attempt to kill the Traveler, but rather to knock him out, she was going to kill him right after that, the huge gulf between Ei and the Traveler is very obvious in any scene other than with the AMP of 99 visions.
The Traveler going to 6C because of training that is only done for the Traveler to get to know Raiden's fighting style doesn't make any sense, if the Traveler was that strong in Inazuma, the Traveler wouldn't lose to God Scaramouche more than 100 times in Sumeru, and it would become even stronger thanks to the time that has passed.

 

[Giannysmag]

The first one didn't even hit the Traveler, you can clearly see that the rays were just on the sword

???The Traveler gets knocked back like 50 feet by a huge blast of electro and has sparks around his body afterwards, he obviously got hit

besides, as I said, one of the points is the fact that Raiden clearly shows no difficulty in defending and pushing the Traveler, she clearly he is not using much of his power against the Traveler

Which is why the Traveler doesn't fully scale to Raiden's 6-C+ and is only 6-C. Characters on this wiki can downscaling from attacks that nearly killed them, or from characters that they barely bruzed or knocked back

especially in the second scene, where it is very obvious that the attack was not an attempt to kill the Traveler, but rather to knock him out, she was going to kill him right after that

Which doesn't disprove my point, pre training Traveler still got one shot by an attack from a held back Raiden while post training they can tank an attack from a more serious Raiden

 

[Giannysmag]

The Traveler going to 6C because of training that is only done for the Traveler to get to know Raiden's fighting style doesn't make any sense, if the Traveler was that strong in Inazuma, the Traveler wouldn't lose to God Scaramouche more than 100 times in Sumeru, and it would become even stronger thanks to the time that has passed.

Them losing to God Scaramouche isn't an outlier, it simply upscales God Scaramouche

 

[Dog3352]

???The Traveler gets knocked back like 50 feet by a huge blast of electro and has sparks around his body afterwards, he obviously got hit

The rays are extended, it doesn't mean they touched the Traveler, even when he retreats, the rays only appear in front of the Traveler's body, Raiden put electro in his weapon and threw the Traveler away with 0 difficulty, if you look at the scene in slow motion, you can clearly see that Raiden's rays only go to both of their weapons, and not to the Traveler.

Which is why the Traveler doesn't fully scale to Raiden's 6-C+ and is only 6-C. Characters on this wiki can downscaling from attacks that nearly killed them, or from characters that they bearly bruzed or knocked back

Forced, it is not possible to know the amount of power that Raiden is using, the normal thing would be to say that she is simply restraining herself to the point that the Traveler can withstand her blows, since even in a dispute against Kazuha, she did not increase her power to overcame it immediately, and remained calm.

Which doesn't disprove my point, pre training Traveler still got one shot by an attack from aheld back Raiden

That didn't happen, the beams were just on the weapon, just because they spread out doesn't mean the hit was on the Traveler, either way, she's still clearly holding back.

 

[Dog3352]

Them losing to God Scaramouche isn't an outlier, it simply upscales God Scaramouche

It doesn't make any sense to say that the Traveler went from 7A to 6C because of training that simulates a combat style, which in fact, is just about the Traveler dodging attacks, he didn't even train or anything like that to get stronger .

 

[Giannysmag]

The rays are extended, it doesn't mean they touched the Traveler, even when he retreats, the rays only appear in front of the Traveler's body, Raiden put electro in his weapon and threw the Traveler away with 0 difficulty, even if he puts it in camera slowly, you can clearly see that Raiden's rays only go to both of their weapons, and not to the Traveler.

I really can't tell how you are getting the idea that the Traveler didn't get hit

There's even sparks flying out of their body

Forced, it is not possible to know the amount of power that Raiden is using, the normal thing would be to say that she is simply restraining herself to the point that the Traveler can withstand her blows, since even in a dispute against Kazuha, she did not increase her power to overcame it immediately, and remained calm.

Why would Raiden hold back her strength hundreds of times over while fighting a guy that's probably the biggest threat to the order she has created?

That didn't happen, the beams were just on the weapon, just because they spread out doesn't mean the hit was on the Traveler, either way, she's still clearly holding back.

Wait i'm confused which cutscene are you talking about exactly?

It doesn't make any sense to say that the Traveler went from 7A to 6C because of training that simulates a combat style, which in fact, is just about the Traveler dodging attacks, he didn't even train or anything like that to get stronger .

You are saying that as if Scaramouche + a Gnosis wouldn't be insanely powerful combination. Scaramouche is by nature a divine being and a Gnosis is a massive power up, it'd be weird if he weren't among the verses god tiers

 

[Dog3352]

I really can't tell how you are getting the idea that the Traveler didn't get hit

My point remains, the rays only extended thanks to the fact that they were on the sword, as Raiden clearly sends the Traveler back by striking his sword, the rays are in front of the Traveler, so it is not possible to see him, which wouldn't make a definitive 6C anyway, as Raiden is clearly still holding back and completely calm as he throws the Traveler back, in addition to the fact that Raiden's objective with this attack was only to drive the Traveler away, not to kill or seriously injure him.

Why would Raiden hold back her strength hundreds of times over while fighting a guy that's probably the biggest threat to the order she has created?

Kazuha was stopping her from killing the "possible greatest threat to eternity" and didn't destroy Kazuha and the Traveler together, didn't even try to add more strength, and taking into account that she fainted the Traveler the first time they faced each other with the greatest of ease , that would just be PIS or the plot forcing, like in DS, that the Upper Moons (Akaza and Douma) could easily kill their opponents but held back for no reason at all.

Wait i'm confused which cutscene are you talking about exactly?

The same one that the agent is still citing.

You are saying that as if Scaramouche + a Gnosis wouldn't be insanely powerful combination. Scaramouche is by nature a divine being and a Gnosis is a massive power up, it'd be weird if he weren't among the verses god tiers

Scaramouche is only 2 ranks above Signora, which wasn't exactly a big deal, Signora was 3 ranks above Childe and wasn't exactly a big deal either, Scaramouche only had one divine feat after he stopped being a fatui, and that was after achieving a vision (which are not always stronger than illusions, since the power of a vision varies according to certain things), so much so that the only fatui that were described as being as strong as gods were the first 3, the Scaramouche and the Childe only managed to reach that level some time after this declaration.

 

[Dog3352]

Honestly, I don't want to argue about this, as it will be a repetition of arguments, I'll just wait for more people to come.

 

[Giannysmag]

My point remains, the rays only extended thanks to the fact that they were on the sword, as Raiden clearly sends the Traveler back by striking his sword, the rays are in front of the Traveler, so it is not possible to see him, which wouldn't make a definitive 6C anyway, as Raiden is clearly still holding back and completely calm as he throws the Traveler back, in addition to the fact that Raiden's objective with this attack was only to drive the Traveler away, not to kill or seriously injure him.

You are really gonna make go through this 5 second clip frame by frame

Kazuha was stopping her from killing the "possible greatest threat to eternity" and didn't destroy Kazuha and the Traveler together, didn't even try to add more strength

She used her strongest technique on Traveler and Kazuha blocked it. This isnt a case of Raiden holding back, its a feat for Kazuha who is being temporarily powered up by a second vision

The same one that the agent is still citing.

I might be illiterate cause i still dont understand what you mean

Scaramouche is only 2 ranks above Signora, which wasn't exactly a big deal, Signora was 3 ranks above Childe and wasn't exactly a big deal either

Which means nothing. Signora also has a feta of one shotting Venti so i really dont understand your point here

so much so that the only fatui that were described as being as strong as gods were the first 3, the Scaramouche and the Childe only managed to reach that level some time after this declaration.

Iirc correctly the statement about the top 3 is comparaing them to the archons specifically in Chinese not gods in general

Honestly, I don't want to argue about this, as it will be a repetition of arguments, I'll just wait for more people to come.

Alright then

 

[Smashtwig]

Will comment later, but I am of the side that Traveler didn't get hit, it's clearly a deflection of HIS attack by Raiden, similar to deflecting a tennis ball or a birdie or whatever in racket games, you can tell via the animation itself (the speed calc has a frame by frame). The animation has Raiden block a vertical slash, and then set up a diagonal deflection to repel Traveler back, you know, like winning a sword clash. But if you think this counts just know it's reduced damage.

Even then, considering how we scale this currently, it still doesn't make sense that we just have Traveler scaling to a Raiden that's listed as 6-C+, but only have him at 6-C (according to the verse page, Andrius’s 5 Gigas). Why specifically 6-C? Why not any other rating lower than 6-C+? If it comes from "he was still weaker", well, yeah, 7-A is also still weaker than 6-C+, so we’d need to prove that, that specific lightning blast was EXACTLY at 6-C, not 6-C+ or 7-A or 7-C or 10-B or whatever. I’d argue that it would be better to scale Traveler to 6-C+ (and leave a note that it downscales) if u guys still wanna do Tier 6 because then it would make sense

Not to mention the lightning blast is not of the same magnitude as the one that cooked him at the beginning. Also, narratively Ei has taken an interest in him at this point and could be holding back


Also for that speed calc I want to point out in that same scene, no Traveler didn't dodge any lightning attack because it was a deflect. Plus, even if he did, this same feat is used to make him have a 6-C durability feat

When it comes to scaling Signora or anyone else that's 6-C and Traveler right now I don't have a counter for it rn, but use those instead because this specific one doesn't hold up

 

[Dog3352]

Will comment later, but I am of the side that Traveler didn't get hit, it's clearly a deflection of HIS attack by Raiden, similar to deflecting a tennis ball or a birdie or whatever in racket games, you can tell via the animation itself (the speed calc has a frame by frame). The animation has Raiden block a vertical slash, and then set up a diagonal deflection to repel Traveler back, you know, like winning a sword clash. But if you think this counts just know it's reduced damage.

Even then, considering how we scale this currently, it still doesn't make sense that we just have Traveler scaling to a Raiden that's listed as 6-C+, but only have him at 6-C (according to the verse page, Andrius’s 5 Gigas). Why specifically 6-C? Why not any other rating lower than 6-C+? If it comes from "he was still weaker", well, yeah, 7-A is also still weaker than 6-C+, so we’d need to prove that, that specific lightning blast was EXACTLY at 6-C, not 6-C+ or 7-A or 7-C or 10-B or whatever. I’d argue that it would be better to scale Traveler to 6-C+ (and leave a note that it downscales) if u guys still wanna do Tier 6 because then it would make sense

Not to mention the lightning blast is not of the same magnitude as the one that cooked him at the beginning. Also, narratively Ei has taken an interest in him at this point and could be holding back


Also for that speed calc I want to point out in that same scene, no Traveler didn't dodge any lightning attack because it was a deflect. Plus, even if he did, this same feat is used to make him have a 6-C durability feat

When it comes to scaling Signora or anyone else that's 6-C and Traveler right now I don't have a counter for it rn, but use those instead because this specific one doesn't hold up

You agree with both the downgrades?

 

[Smashtwig]

On a personal level, yes- but we would still need to disprove Signora one shotting Venti (and if we wanted to downgrade Sumeru Traveller, Kami), so for now, I can only agree with downgrading Ayaka

 

[Dog3352]

On a personal level, yes- but we would still need to disprove Signora one shotting Venti (and if we wanted to downgrade Sumeru Traveller, Kami), so for now, I can only agree with downgrading Ayaka

Venti didn't even try to fight, he let Signora hit him.

 

[Giannysmag]

Will comment later, but I am of the side that Traveler didn't get hit, it's clearly a deflection of HIS attack by Raiden, similar to deflecting a tennis ball or a birdie or whatever in racket games, you can tell via the animation itself (the speed calc has a frame by frame). The animation has Raiden block a vertical slash, and then set up a diagonal deflection to repel Traveler back, you know, like winning a sword clash. But if you think this counts just know it's reduced damage.

No it's not you can see Raiden's eye light up and the lightning coming from her side. It's her attack

Even then, considering how we scale this currently, it still doesn't make sense that we just have Traveler scaling to a Raiden that's listed as 6-C+, but only have him at 6-C (according to the verse page, Andrius’s 5 Gigas). Why specifically 6-C? Why not any other rating lower than 6-C+? If it comes from "he was still weaker", well, yeah, 7-A is also still weaker than 6-C+, so we’d need to prove that, that specific lightning blast was EXACTLY at 6-C, not 6-C+ or 7-A or 7-C or 10-B or whatever. I’d argue that it would be better to scale Traveler to 6-C+ (and leave a note that it downscales) if u guys still wanna do Tier 6 because then it would make sense

As the guy that upgraded the Traveler to 6-C in the first place i can answer this. The idea is that 6-C and 6-C+ are different scaling chains (one scales from Andrius and the other from Barbatos), but they are close enough to eachother that a 6-C can at least hold their own against a 6-C+ and not get instantly one shot like a 8-B character would (which used to be the next tier down after 6-C). So the Traveler who is clearly weaker than the Shogun but can still survive her attacks and later also has feats against a different character that scales to Andrius would fit the best in 6-C

Not to mention the lightning blast is not of the same magnitude as the one that cooked him at the beginning. Also, narratively Ei has taken an interest in him at this point and could be holding back

The attack that one shot the traveler in their first fight was a casual polearm swing from Raiden, the attack the Traveler takes the second time would logically be the superior one

Venti didn't even try to fight, he let Signora hit him.

Signora punched Venti once and he was on the ground gasping for air, i think that's a pretty good indication of scaling

 

[Dog3352]

Signora punched Venti once and he was on the ground gasping for air, i think that's a pretty good indication of scaling

1. Venti does not have any durability feats.
2. We don't know how strong or durable the current Venti is, if I'm not mistaken, Venti even says that he "is without a doubt the weakest Archon of the seven".

 

[Smashtwig]

No it's not you can see Raiden's eye light up and the lightning coming from her side. It's her attack

tbh I thought the eye thing was just her trying a bit harder and that the lightning “coming from her side” was there to make the effect look cooler, like a super saiyan aura to force Traveler back, either way, you can argue that even being in the way scales to that specific attack ig

As the guy that upgraded the Traveler to 6-C in the first place i can answer this. The idea is that 6-C and 6-C+ are different scaling chains (one scales from Andrius and the other from Barbatos), but they are close enough to eachother that a 6-C can at least hold their own against a 6-C+ and not get instantly one shot like a 8-B character would (which used to be the next tier down after 6-C). So the Traveler who is clearly weaker than the Shogun but can still survive her attacks and later also has feats against a different character that scales to Andrius would fit the best in 6-C

This is uh… kinda strange ngl. I see what you’re saying, but that would just mean Traveler is 7-A in Inazuma and grew stronger to be 6-C. The difference between guys like Andrius and Osial vs the Archons is massive, Zhongli was gonna handle the whole Osial threat on his own- ngl bro was acting calm like he was in control the whole time

The attack that one shot the traveler in their first fight was a casual polearm swing from Raiden, the attack the Traveler takes the second time would logically be the superior one

i would actually argue the opposite, Raiden had a reason to kill Traveler in this instance, in fact, she was definitely going to. I doubt a “casual polearm swing” would involve spinning to build up momentum for a heavy slash. Not saying she isn’t holding back, but she narratively only sees someone she needs to defeat, there is no need to drag on any fight. This first swing is a genuine counter attack, while the second one was simply a means to repel

In the second fight it was definitely less straightforward in motives, Ei had genuine curiousity, that is admitted by her herself, she goes “aight enlighten me I dare you”. Here she sees Traveler as someone that can beat her morally and is curious to see just how strong the ambitions of the people are to her own will. And her attack in the second is literally just her defending an attack and basically swatting Traveler away like a bug, where as the other is her hitting him with an entire spin slash.

 

[Giannysmag]

1. Venti does not have any durability feats.
2. We don't know how strong or durable the current Venti is, if I'm not mistaken, Venti even says that he probably became the weakest Archon.

In Venti's fight against Decarabian it's specifically stated that he "fought through his winds", also even tho there's no UES Genshin characters at least somewhat physically scale to elemental attacks of the same tier

 

[Dog3352]

In Venti's fight against Decarabian it's specifically stated that he "fought through his winds", also even tho there's no UES Genshin characters at least somewhat physically scale to elemental attacks of the same tier

"fought through the ferocious winds"
The Declaration is wrong, and this does not mean that he took blows, just that he fought against Decarabian, besides as I said, Current Venti has not made any statements, he himself says with complete certainty that he became the weakest Archon.

 

[Giannysmag]

tbh I thought the eye thing was just her trying a bit harder and that the lightning “coming from her side” was there to make the effect look cooler, like a super saiyan aura to force Traveler back, either way, you can argue that even being in the way scales to that specific attack ig

Occam's razor would dictate that those are indications of it being her attack

This is uh… kinda strange ngl. I see what you’re saying, but that would just mean Traveler is 7-A in Inazuma and grew stronger to be 6-C. The difference between guys like Andrius and Osial vs the Archons is massive, Zhongli was gonna handle the whole Osial threat on his own- ngl bro was acting calm like he was in control the whole time

Meh, having the Traveler at 7-A would just make the gap betwen them and Raiden even bigger which doesn't solve the problem. I also wanted an in universe reason for Traveler to jump from 8-B to 6-C aside from just, "they got stronger trust me bro"

i would actually argue the opposite, Raiden had a reason to kill Traveler in this instance, in fact, she was definitely going to. I doubt a “casual polearm swing” would involve spinning to build up momentum for a heavy slash. Not saying she isn’t holding back, but she narratively only sees someone she needs to defeat, there is no need to drag on any fight. This first swing is a genuine counter attack, while the second one was simply a means to repel

In the second fight it was definitely less straightforward in motives, Ei had genuine curiousity, that is admitted by her herself, she goes “aight enlighten me I dare you”. Here she sees Traveler as someone that can beat her morally and is curious to see just how strong the ambitions of the people are to her own will. And her attack in the second is literally just her defending an attack and basically swatting Traveler away like a bug, where as the other is her hitting him with an entire spin slash.

That's fair i guess, i've heard a few other counterarguaments saying that the whole fight is metaphorical or it's a fight of wills rather than a physical conflict which is why the Traveler gets amped with ambitions.

"fought through the ferocious winds"
The Declaration is wrong, and this does not mean that he took blows, just that he fought against Decarabian, besides as I said, Current Venti has not made any statements, he himself says with complete certainty that he became the weakest Archon.

The reason Venti thought of himself as the weakest Archon is because the Gnosis would have lost power, but when he fought Decarabian he didn't have the Gnosis at all meaning Archon War Venti < Prologue Venti =< Signora

 

[Giannysmag]

I'm gonna be going to sleep in a bit so you should probably bring in a few more supporters to look at this

 

[Dog3352]

The reason Venti thought of himself as the weakest Archon is because the Gnosis would have lost power, but when he fought Decarabian he didn't have the Gnosis at all meaning Archon War Venti < Prologue Venti =< Signora

Venti says that he became the weakest archon because of his power, and he doesn't give gnosis, and he mentioned this long before gnosis was mentioned.

Venti: Each archon presides over their own part of Teyvat. That is the role the archons play.
Venti: Only in performing this duty can we attain power, but I don't like the idea of "ruling" Mondstadt — and I don't feel Mondstadt would really like it either.
Jean: "Go forth and establish a city of freedom without rule." We have not forgotten Barbatos' wish for Mondstadt.
Paimon: Jean... You're such a devotee!
Paimon: Maybe someone got a little too free and is just too lazy to care...
Venti: Ahh... However it may have come to be... I haven't been back to Mondstadt for an extended period of time.
Venti: Without a doubt, I am now the weakest archon among The Seven!

And this still doesn't prove anything about the current Venti's power or durability, gnoses only give elemental power.

 

[Giannysmag]

Venti says that he became the weakest archon because of his power, and he doesn't give gnosis, and he mentioned this long before gnosis was mentioned.

Venti: Each archon presides over their own part of Teyvat. That is the role the archons play.
Venti: Only in performing this duty can we attain power, but I don't like the idea of "ruling" Mondstadt — and I don't feel Mondstadt would really like it either.
Jean: "Go forth and establish a city of freedom without rule." We have not forgotten Barbatos' wish for Mondstadt.
Paimon: Jean... You're such a devotee!
Paimon: Maybe someone got a little too free and is just too lazy to care...
Venti: Ahh... However it may have come to be... I haven't been back to Mondstadt for an extended period of time.
Venti: Without a doubt, I am now the weakest archon among The Seven!

And this still doesn't prove anything about the current Venti's power or durability, gnoses only give elemental power.

My bad i remembered Venti specifically mentioning the Gnosis here. I'm starting to lean towards neutral for the Traveler downgrade tbh, maybe like a "At least 7-A, likely higher post Training" or smth will do, i'm too tired to think of anything rn

 

[Dog3352]

My bad i remembered Venti specifically mentioning the Gnosis here. I'm starting to lean towards neutral for the Traveler downgrade tbh, maybe like a "At least 7-A, likely higher post Training" or smth will do, i'm too tired to think of anything rn

Well, I had an error when doing the CRT, I was going to suggest that but I forgot (would be a second option).

 

[Smashtwig]

Occam's razor would dictate that those are indications of it being her attack

Yeah, you can still argue that no matter what variant of it you choose Traveler still took that attack

Meh, having the Traveler at 7-A would just make the gap betwen them and Raiden even bigger which doesn't solve the problem. I also wanted an in universe reason for Traveler to jump from 8-B to 6-C aside from just, "they got stronger trust me bro"

I don't really see it as a problem to begin with tbh, bro was getting cooked up regardless, there's a point where the gap getting bigger doesn't matter.

Not when my CRT comes in no one gets stronger trust

That's fair i guess, i've heard a few other counterarguaments saying that the whole fight is metaphorical or it's a fight of wills rather than a physical conflict which is why the Traveler gets amped with ambitions.

That is a thing yes lol

My bad i remembered Venti specifically mentioning the Gnosis here. I'm starting to lean towards neutral for the Traveler downgrade tbh, maybe like a "At least 7-A, likely higher post Training" or smth will do, i'm too tired to think of anything rn

Ebic, then I agree with the Traveler downgrade too

Sumuru Traveler's next

 

[Xmark12]

Agree with all of OP's points.

 

[VortechsTG]

I agree with Ayaka for sure. I think it’s possible the traveler was meant to downscale from Raiden but I think this discussion, and the fact that she did not show any particular exertion, prove that it is too speculative to index that. I also think the fact that only the top three harbingers are considered to be strong enough to compete with the archons proves that at this point the traveler is not meant to be that strong.

 

[Smashtwig]

Bros pfp is the Doctor

Based

Literally the goat

 

[Smashtwig]

So by this we also nerfing Prologue Venti to 7-A right

 

[VortechsTG]

So by this we also nerfing Prologue Venti to 7-A right

I would also be in favor of that.

 

[Jackpact]

Then should we downgrade current Dvalin to 7A? Since without the temple amp, he was able to be knock down by the Venti amped group. Tho i don't know whatever Venti give Dvalin in the end would do anything (probably not unless it's a walmart version of Neuvilette regaining authority).

Anyway agree FRA.

 

[Jackpact]

While we are on this topic, where would Cyno be? Still at most 6C? Cause the only legit reason for that is him being able to push Sumeru traveler away and that could be PIS.

 

[Dog3352]

Damn, I didn't know that so many characters scale to the Inazuma Traveler scale, could anyone make a list that scale specifically to the Inazuma Traveler to demote them?
Cyno scales to Inazuma Traveler, and we could scale him to "possibly 6C", since he also didn't seem to be using his all against the Wanderer.

 

[Smashtwig]

Damn, I didn't know that so many characters scale to the Inazuma Traveler scale, could anyone make a list that scale specifically to the Inazuma Traveler to demote them?
Cyno scales to Inazuma Traveler, and we could scale him to "possibly 6C", since he also didn't seem to be using his all against the Wanderer.

I am in agreeance

well, I typically just think any non-archon or someone not stated to be on their level shouldn't be 6-C- it just doesn't make narrative sense that they're by default that strong

oh dont forget signora and yelan i guess

 

[VortechsTG]

Cyno is pretty consistently portrayed as being stronger than Sumeru traveler imo. He himself says so, he outsped traveler and ended up having to pull him along with him in his story quest, and he went toe to toe with Wanderer.

Though I will say I question scaling Wanderer, and by extension, Cyno, and Sumeru traveler, to Andrius. Gods vary way too much to make the claim that they should be relative simply because they're gods, and as far as I'm aware, there's no direct point of comparison. I'm saying that as someone whose favorite character is by far Wanderer. Though idk what the original reason for scaling them together was beyond what is on his profile so I could be unaware of something.

 

[Giannysmag]

Damn, I didn't know that so many characters scale to the Inazuma Traveler scale, could anyone make a list that scale specifically to the Inazuma Traveler to demote them?
Cyno scales to Inazuma Traveler, and we could scale him to "possibly 6C", since he also didn't seem to be using his all against the Wanderer.

Cyno scales to Sumeru Traveler and Wanderer, who have their own feats against God Scaramouche so he wouldn't be effected by this.

Idk about the Venti and Dvalin scaling. My idea with that was that current Venti would scale to Decarabian, because neither current Venti nor Archin War Venti had a Gnosis, meaning 6-C is his base level if power. But this statement seems to make that idea faulty

Venti says that he became the weakest archon because of his power, and he doesn't give gnosis, and he mentioned this long before gnosis was mentioned.

Venti: Each archon presides over their own part of Teyvat. That is the role the archons play.
Venti: Only in performing this duty can we attain power, but I don't like the idea of "ruling" Mondstadt — and I don't feel Mondstadt would really like it either.
Jean: "Go forth and establish a city of freedom without rule." We have not forgotten Barbatos' wish for Mondstadt.
Paimon: Jean... You're such a devotee!
Paimon: Maybe someone got a little too free and is just too lazy to care...
Venti: Ahh... However it may have come to be... I haven't been back to Mondstadt for an extended period of time.
Venti: Without a doubt, I am now the weakest archon among The Seven!

And this still doesn't prove anything about the current Venti's power or durability, gnoses only give elemental power.

 

[VortechsTG]

Was there ever even any implications that Venti personally fought Decarabian? We usually only ever see him buffing others in fights. A quick search leads me to the description for the Amos bow which seems to imply him and Amos killed each other.

But it was not until the moment when her arrow flew toward him, and when the piercing wind was about to rip her asunder, that she finally realized their distance apart.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Agree with ayaka and neutral on traveler