Hit's two modes of time manipulation

[Lawyerr]

As of Episode 72, it seems Hit has two modes of time manipulation he can use.

In the U6 tournament, as explained by Galactic King, Hit stops time and attacks the enemy in that frozen time. He did this to Goku, and even when Goku broke through with SSBKKx10, Hit still was able to freeze him in stopped time. Later in Episode 71, Hit stops time while walking to some mafia stronghouse, then stops times for everyone except some Boss man. Hit even explains to the boss that time has stopped.

In Episode 72, as noted by Goku, Hit is now stronger than before. Hit has the ability to create a pocket universe of stopped time and function within that (if anyone can explain this better, go ahead). Hit uses this to dodge Goku's techniques. Vados explains this development of the time-skip when Champa asks why Goku can't hit him.

So it stands to believe that Hit can use a THE WORLD timestop, while also able to use a KING CRIMSON time-skip.

 

[Gokuiscool144]

And Goku was able to destroy this "parallel" world by powering up <3

 

[Promestein]

I'm pretty sure Hit just makes it so he's existing in another universe and attacking from there, or something similar

 

[Gokuiscool144]

Also to add he can create fake copies of himself that have their own KI, which is why Goku sensed him in different areas

 

[Reppuzan]

I've just watched the fight, and according to the Vados, he doesn't actually stop time (contrary to the Galactic King's account), but he instead stores that time within himself to create a pocket realm where he can move freely.

His intangibility works the same way, as he's simply leaving a projection of himself where he was rather than where he is now, thus creating the illusion that their attacks are passing through him.

However, anyone with sufficient power (as Goku showed) can easily counter it simply by exerting their strength all over the place in the form of an aura or with sufficient firepower. Hit's projections are also worthless against anyone who can attack across a wide radius at once since they're simply afterimages of where he was in the past.

 

[Gokuiscool144]

I've just watched the fight, and according to the Vados, he doesn't actually stop time (contrary to the Galactic King's account), but he instead stores that time within himself to create a pocket realm where he can move freely.
His intangibility works the same way, as he's simply leaving a projection of himself where he was rather than where he is now, thus creating the illusion that their attacks are passing through him.

However, anyone with sufficient power (as Goku showed) can easily counter it simply by exerting their strength all over the place in the form of an aura or with sufficient firepower. Hit's projections are also worthless against anyone who can attack across a wide radius at once since they're simply afterimages of where he was in the past.

She never said he doesn't stop time. The time storing is related to his new assassination techniques. Goku even said at the start that Hit has greater techniques than his tokitobashi. Hit did not use his time skip till the end

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

So hit doesnt really have time hax then? its just illusion and pocket dimension creation?

 

[Lawyerr]

I've just watched the fight, and according to the Vados, he doesn't actually stop time (contrary to the Galactic King's account), but he instead stores that time within himself to create a pocket realm where he can move freely.

Hit can do both. Vados was referring to Goku not being able to attack Hit, which is why the attacks were going through him when Champa asked. The specific technique that Vados was referring to was the pocket of time that Hit was creating.

Hit can store time and use it either in a time stop or in a pocket world to move freely. In U6 and Episode 71, Hit is clearly stopping time, Galactic King and Hit both explain this as a time stop. Hit stops time and even explains to the boss dude that time has stopped. Hit stops time against Goku in U6 and when Goku breaks out of it, stops him again with a time freeze.

Not to mention in Episode 72, Goku remarks that Hit has gotten much stronger, so it stands to believe that Hit has improved his time manipulation.

Based on both sources, it seems Hit can store time and use it to stop time or move around in a pocket dimension. Basically a The World and a King Crimson.

 

[Lawyerr]

Also it seems Hit doesn't really have intangiability, but just his different usage of time-skip. However, his insivisible attacks do have intagiability, as they can bypass through solid objects and the ground.

Goku stopped this with his Ki, so he countered intangiable attacks.

 

[Reppuzan]

To quote Vados:

"Hit is not actually stopping time. He is actually skipping time and Hit can store that skipped time to create a separate space, a parallel world where he can move to and fro freely. That's why he can be seen but not touched."

It's much closer to King Crimson in terms of functionality, but unlike King Crimson or The World it can easily be overcome with enough power.

 

[Lawyerr]

To quote Vados:
"Hit is not actually stopping time. He is actually skipping time and Hit can store that skipped time to create a separate space, a parallel world where he can move to and fro freely. That's why he can be seen but not touched."

It's much closer to King Crimson in terms of functionality, but unlike King Crimson or The World it can easily be overcome with enough power.

Again, Vados was referring to his specific technique of appearing, yet not actually being touched because he's operating in a parallel world. That specific technique is not stopping time, they're completely different and shouldn't be equated to each other.

Hit was using a new technique in Episode 72, which was not stopping time. This doesn't mean he can't stop time, as evident in all the other episodes.

Not to mention in Episode 71 Hit is unseen walking through the base, because he's stopping time as he walks through. If he was using his parallel world time technique, then he would have been seen.

Along with U6 + Hit's own explanation + Galactic King's explanation, it all points to two modes of time manipulation. Time stopping + operating in another parallel world of time.

And Goku breaking through Hit's time manipulation is his own. It can't be equated to just having more power. Like any other hax ability, it relies on the user actually resisting it, not just a general assumption that because character X has resisted it, all characters can as well.

 

[AppleLord]

The dimension created by Hit looks the same in all his events, meaning is the same one. Vados holds a greater tittle that any of them so I'll go with her explanation. Hit can also fire invisible Ki blast that can phase through solid objects.

 

[SomebodyData]

I agree with Lawyer, also wouldn't this more akin to what Super Buu did? Just a minor form of Spatial manipulation?

 

[Shock97]

I'm confused as to why his Time Stop wouldn't actually be him stopping time, that's a big contradiction to what's been consistently shown. Also what he does with his skipped time would be spatial manipulation unless I'm mistaken.

 

[Xenonolon]

To quote Vados:
"Hit is not actually stopping time. He is actually skipping time and Hit can store that skipped time to create a separate space, a parallel world where he can move to and fro freely. That's why he can be seen but not touched."

It's much closer to King Crimson in terms of functionality, but unlike King Crimson or The World it can easily be overcome with enough power.

having more Ki in Dragonball just gives you more hax resistances/counters. It's not that Hit's hax can automatically be countered by someone more powerful than him. Goku being able to dodge and counter Hit's intangible attacks and break through Hit's stored time dimension are feats for him not weaknesses of Hit's abilities.

 

[Xenonolon]

I'm confused as to why his Time Stop wouldn't actually be him stopping time, that's a big contradiction to what's been consistently shown. Also what he does with his skipped time would be spatial manipulation unless I'm mistaken.

Hit essentially stores time so it doesn't exist for anyone else but him when he time skips. Goku's ki just reached the point where he could resist his time being stored by Hit. More ki = more hax resistances/counters in Dragonball just like it's always been ever since Vegito managed to maintain his consciousness as a piece of chocolate through sheer power.

 

[Lawyerr]

The dimension created by Hit looks the same in all his events, meaning is the same one. Vados holds a greater tittle that any of them so I'll go with her explanation. Hit can also fire invisible Ki blast that can phase through solid objects.

Hit literally explains that he stops time (Episode 71 to the boss dude). You're going against the explanation of the person who is actually preforming, mastered and used the ability.

Not to mention you're equating the same ability to two explicitly different abilities. There is a clear difference between Hit's ability of time stopping which he preformed in U6 and Episode 71 (where no one can see him), and the parallel world of time that he creates, in which Goku can still see him.

This isn't even difficult to grasp. Goku mention that Hit has developed new techniques and has become stronger. Why people think that Hit is using the exact same ability of his time-stop, when there is a clear difference is beyond me.

 

[Lawyerr]

Look at the end when Goku powers up to destroy the pocket dimension of time.

Hit escapes to his pocket dimension when Goku powers up, then proceeds to do his time-stop glass-shattering imagery that is shown whenever he stops time.

 

[Dragon_Emperor_lV]

Look at the end when Goku powers up to destroy the pocket dimension of time.
Hit escapes to his pocket dimension when Goku powers up, then proceeds to do his time-stop glass-shattering imagery that is shown whenever he stops time.

Yep just rewatched it.

 

[Gokuiscool144]

So Goku does have power to destroy time, but not on a universal scale just yet? hmmmmm

 

[Kame-Ken]

Is this a 4D feat?

 

[Gokuiscool144]

@Kame-Ken. I think this is a fraction of 4D power which is High 3-A. But.. at the end of the day its up to the mods.

 

[Antvasima]

We will not upgrade Goku to High 3-A, based on our current definitions of 3-A and Low 2-C. However, there are inherent problems with the distinction, so we may or may not change it in the future.

Anyway, the issue here seems to be if Hit and Goku should get new powers listed, and if so, what we should call them.

 

[LazyHunter]

I'm siding with Reppuzan, Vados is pretty clearly speaking about Hit's "timestop" ability when she explains how he uses another application for it to achieve intangibility. Before trying to argue against this, please rewatch the scene like Reppuzan and I did. These are the lines prior to the explanation, scene starts around the 14:08 mark.

C: But why can't Goku even touch his body?

V: Do you know why Hit's attack is called Time-Skip?

C: Because he stops time, right?

V: Insert the explanation already posted by Reppuzan.

Now, why would the series reveal he's not actually stopping time when everything prior to that, including Hit's own words, point that he does stop it? I don't know, I'm as confused as Champa, just for other reasons.

As for the High 3-A, you can see the size of his pocket dimension around the 17:40 mark, and it's a small dome pretty inferior to ROSAT's planet size, which has already been explained to not be enough for a High 3-A rating.

 

[Bats16]

He has two different modes of time manipulation. That's the best explanation to be honest. He has the ability to stop time and the ability to store time, the latter of which allows him to use that stored time to create a pocket universe that he has access to at any point. This gives him intangibility when he's in the pocket universe as his physical body is in a completely different dimension. It's similar to Obito's Kamui in that regard.

 

[LazyHunter]

The problem is not with Hit's pocket dimension technique. The problem is that Vados', the only source for the mechanics of his intangibility and a character whose statements should hold a lot of weight, clearly stated that Hit's ability is not stopping time but skipping it, as its name indicated. This conflicts with prior explanations from other third parties (which could always be explained as those characters being wrong), and Hit's own words + visible effects of the ability (harder to explain away).

I'm not even trying to argue against Hit stopping time since that's clearly what he did so far prior to this episode. I'm just pointing out that the series seems to contradict itself.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Bats16 seems to make sense.

 

[Asdasdx2]

The problem is not with Hit's pocket dimension technique. The problem is that Vados', the only source for the mechanics of his intangibility and a character whose statements should hold a lot of weight, clearly stated that Hit's ability is not stopping time but skipping it, as its name indicated. This conflicts with prior explanations from other third parties (which could always be explained as those characters being wrong), and Hit's own words + visible effects of the ability (harder to explain away).
I'm not even trying to argue against Hit stopping time since that's clearly what he did so far prior to this episode. I'm just pointing out that the series seems to contradict itself.

the problem is the episode 71 where Hit clearly said that he was stopping time, i think vados was just explaining his new ability which is in fact not time stopping, while champa was still thinking that this new ability was time stopping

 

[LazyHunter]

Yes, it would make more sense for them to be two unrelated abilities, but Vados is clearly talking about Hit's Time-Skip technique, as you can see in the dialogue I posted above.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, hut I don't know how we should make sense of the contradictory information, or how we should describe the ability in his profile othervise.

 

[AppleLord]

Yes, hut I don't know how we should make sense of the contradictory information, or how we should describe the ability in his profile othervise.

You can use this as a guide, http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Hit#Techniques_and_special_abilities

 

[Sidali891]

I agree with Lawyerr and Bats18. The best explination for Hit's ability is both skipping time and stopping time. either that, or you guys would Take Vados' one and only statement about Hit's ability as fact rather than the MANY statements including Galactic King's and Hit's statements saying otherwise about this ability.

 

[AppleLord]

I agree with Lawyerr and Bats18. The best explination for Hit's ability is both skipping time and stopping time. either that, or you guys would Take Vados' one and only statement about Hit's ability as fact rather than the MANY statements including Galactic King's and Hit's statements saying otherwise about this ability.

She possess more knowledge than him, which is good, it means there is still room for him to learn more and grow.

 

[LazyHunter]

@Antvasima

Probably the best we could do would be to continue treating it as a time stop for simplicity since that is what he was doing until now. We can add a note in his Time Skip technique like this acknowledging Vados' explanation:

• Time Skip: Hit can freeze time for at least 0.5 seconds, which is extremely useful to get an advantage against other fighters around his own level. Hit later improved the technique's duration by an unknown amount, and he also proved to be capable of choosing who he freezes in time. Despite Vados stating Hit skips time instead of stopping it, her statement contradicts Hit's own words and the effects of the technique.
  • Parallel World: Hit can store the time he "skips" and use it to create a small parallel world or pocket dimension he can enter and leave at will. While he's inside this parallel world, Hit can be seen but he cannot be physically touched. Hit himself can attack while he's inside the parallel world

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I think Lawyerr and Bats18 makes sense. It is most likely 2 forms of Time Manipulation.

 

[AppleLord]

Despite the ability been called Timeskip, it slows time instead? What about if, it stops time inside of the dimension and skips time outside of it?

 

[Sidali891]

@AppleLord

Would you rather take the words of a Knowledgable character who saw the ability a few times or the words of someone who used, experienced and mastered that ability?

 

[Aimenaltair]

guys skipping time can sometimes be the same thing as stopping time.

Hit skips time for himself and somebody he chooses, let's say he skips 1 second, that means then entire world stops while Hit's body stays in motion which means he made a small skip in his lifetime compared to the entire universe that stood still while Hit was skipping his time.

 

[Aimenaltair]

It's the same as stopping time but the thing is Hit can store the time he skipped and create a paralel world that he lives in and do those crazy techniques he did against Goku.

Ann it was stated to be another world not a pocket dimenssion.

 

[AppleLord]

@AppleLord

Would you rather take the words of a Knowledgable character who saw the ability a few times or the words of someone who used, experienced and mastered that ability?

I would take the words of a higher being who's life span and knowledge over passess Hit's thinking, thatit reach its limit. As we seen he can improve in battle, therefore we can safely assume that he has not master his abilities to their fulless.