High-Godly and True-Godly Regenerationn revisions (Staff only)

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm for just nyxing True-Godly at this point since nobody seems to have a clear idea on what should and shouldn't be considered qualitatively superior. Cut that off and change High-Godly to the conceptual erasure.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Wouldnt that make the differences pretty massive between lower tier High-Godly and top tier High-Godly? I mean I guess we have skme things with massive differences under the same name so I guess it could work.

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody willing to ask the remaining administrators, as well as DarkLK, DontTalkDT, and Promestein, for help?

 

[SomebodyData]

Pretty much what Sr. Bambu said.

 

[Antoniofer]

I'm fine with option too.

 

[Antvasima]

Input from Sera and Ultima would also be appreciated. Can somebody ask them to comment here please?

 

[Udlmaster]

Bambu's option also leads to "My High-Godly is better than yours" and it just causes issues.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

I'm fine with Bambu's option too.

 

[Antvasima]

We still need to try to reach a conclusion here.

 

[Udlmaster]

I'm still in agreement with Ultima's proposal

 

[Bobsican]

I think the idea of Bambu seems fine, but I think True-Godly should be kept for when you are conceptually erased and implanted with something (a law, another concept...) to prevent it from existing again, but I'm not sure.

 

[GyroNutz]

@Mr. Bambu, so would (true) nonexistence erasure, narrative erasure, conceptual (types 1 and 2) erasure all be considered equal and High-Godly? I agree with your proposal but we still need to classify which regens are High-Godly, which are not, and which (if any) are better than the standard type 2 conceptual erasure.

@Bobsi that's just high-godly + an arbitrary resistance.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Nonexistence erasure... I don't really know. I feel like that's largely fancy terms without any other information.

Conceptual 1 and 2 would be the same if we just nuke True-Godly being the Type 1 concept, ye.

Narrative erasure would depend on what the narrative contains I suppose. Likely at least Mid-Godly but probably High-Godly (I assume it's possible for a narrative to not contain someone's concept, like their concept could exist on a higher level or whatever, so just go case by case).

 

[PsychoWarper]

So if we just nuked True Godly we'd basically just have massively different levels of High Godly?

 

[Elizhaa]

Yes

 

[Mr. Bambu]

So if we just nuked True Godly we'd basically just have massively different levels of High Godly?

That's the gist of it, yes. I prefer Type 1 concept vs Type 2 concept but people dislike it.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody willing to ask all of the remaining bureaucrats, consultants, and administrators to comment here? It is a quite important discussion.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

I did the bureaucrats.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, including me...

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I suppose Bambu's suggestion is fine.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

contacted all admins and consultants

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Don't remember what's going on here, besides an option for nuking True Godly, which just brings a new problem of varying degrees of High Godly.

 

[Antvasima]

@Mr. Bambu

Thank you for helping out.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I'm still for just keeping High-Godly which would be in the gist of B (personally I don't think the assumptions are strange, but ok).

I can agree with doing away with True-Godly or keeping it as the 1-A version of High-Godly. That's mostly just a question of whether we want to revise the True-Godly profiles or not.


From the message I got the proposed change is "to change High-Godly to platonic conceptual erasure regen". That has a pretty big problem in that we still have a concept manip revision (as consequence of the tiering revision) to do, that will change Type 1 concept manip and likely abolish/modify platonic concepts as standard for stuff.

Basically setting this standard now makes no sense due to the timing and setting this standard after the revision might make no sense in general.

 

[Overlord775]

you got it wrong, it's "to change High-Godly to false platonic conceptual erasure regen" aka changing High-Godly to regenerating from Type 2 Concept Destruction

 

[DontTalkDT]

Hm? That's not what the message said.

In which case, isn't that the same as option B, but without other local back-up mechanisms (like from laws / despite law erasure etc.)? B sounds like a better approach there.

 

[Antvasima]

From the message I got the proposed change is "to change High-Godly to platonic conceptual erasure regen". That has a pretty big problem in that we still have a concept manip revision (as consequence of the tiering revision) to do, that will change Type 1 concept manip and likely abolish/modify platonic concepts as standard for stuff.

Basically setting this standard now makes no sense due to the timing and setting this standard after the revision might make no sense in general.

This is a good point. Perhaps we should wait for Ultima to finish first?

 

[DontTalkDT]

If we want to base the Regenerationn explicitly on concept related things, I think doing the concept revision first is a good idea.

 

[Udlmaster]

Well, I am still for Ultima's proposal, as it follows the Onion analogy and actually destroys you at layers of your existence.

I also think True-Godly could incorporate Plot manipulation also, as it logically follows the onion analogy.

The issue with Type 1 concept is the same issue with the current True-Godly, it's based on 1-A-ness and not actually destroying someone on a deeper layer, see my explanation of the Onion analogy to see why scaling it to 1-A-ness is not logical.

 

[Overlord775]

@Don't

currently High Godly you is just Mid-Godly+surviving in a void, so regenerating from the universe being erased or being erased and the universe exploding would warrant that tier

but, with the revisions you'd need to be specifically destroyed on a conceptual level to get it

also, unless Platonic Concepts are throwed out of the window entirelly, it wouldn't affect this at all since it's based on the non-1-A ones and if True Platonic gets nuked it wouldn't matter.

@Antvasima

Uh, not to sound rude, but are you following the line of thought of this thread at all ?

because you seem, not offense, clueless and pretty much ignoring the points already discussed

 

[Antvasima]

I constantly juggle several hundreds of tasks. It is hard to keep exact track of all of them. I try to reread earlier parts as reminders though.

 

[Antvasima]

The Regen proposals were:

Mine: High-Godly - Regen post Conceptual erasure, True-Godly - Regen post Narrative erasure

Ultima: High-Godly - Regen post Conceptual erasure, True-Godly - Regen post erasure from Existence and Non-existence

TalkDT: High-Godly - Stays the same, True-Godly - Stays the same

SeraEX: Removal of both High and True Godly regen all together.

And Ultima's proposal was the one which was the most accepted.

Anyway, in this case I try to recheck the first post and the above quote every now and then, but I am very tired.

 

[DontTalkDT]

@Don't
currently High Godly you is just Mid-Godly+surviving in a void, so regenerating from the universe being erased or being erased and the universe exploding would warrant that tier

but, with the revisions you'd need to be specifically destroyed on a conceptual level to get it

also, unless Platonic Concepts are throwed out of the window entirelly, it wouldn't affect this at all since it's based on the non-1-A ones and if True Platonic gets nuked it wouldn't matter.

Not so sure if changes to how we treat platonic concept manip wouldn't affect this, if we change it.

If you're regenerating based on a Type 2 Concept restricted to the universe, destroying said universe still kills you as you can't regenerate anywhere. Whether the concepts even still technically exists is something that varies between verses.

On the other hand if you can regenerate without universe, then destroying your concept within the universe probably doesn't matter to you. After all you can simply regenerate outside the universe in that case, where said concept never had any relevance to start with.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The universe has nothing to do with Regenerationn. If you can't survive in a void that is entirely another issue. That's the point of this thread.

Your concept is part of you. The universe is not.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Eh, your concept isn't really part of you. In fact it is completely independent of you, existing in some abstract form in no place in particular. (or every place at once)


Your plane of existence has in so far something to do with regenerating as that all regenerating mechanisms are usually part of it and if they aren't other characters on the same plane can't disable them. For practical purposes that's a good difference.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I suppose I should word it better. Your concept is directly tied to you, it is inherent to you. The same cannot be said about the universe, which is just a space you inhabit. I cannot stress enough that surviving in a void has nothing to do at all with Regenerationn, we've established this, may we please move on.

 

[GyroNutz]

I mean, your mind is generally treated as physically independent of you but it's still your mind. Similarly, there's still the concept of "you" which isn't independent, since affecting that concept directly affects you.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I am personally undecided between the following options, which is why I haven't commented much:

1) High-Godly is Regenerationn post conceptual erasure. True-Godly is Regenerationn post type 1 conceptual erasure.

2) High-Godly is Regenerationn post conceptual erasure. True-Godly is Regenerationn post narrative erasure.

3) High-Godly is Regenerationn post conceptual erasure. True-Godly is Regenerationn post erasure from existence and non-existence.

 

[Andytrenom]

I'm not sure about making true godly Regenerationn from non existence erasure, since I don't know if that would actually be above conceptual erasure , narrative erasure I'm not sure if it's coherent enough of a concept to base regency levels on,

Those are doubts I have about true godly which I don't have a solid stance on, but as for high godly I still feel it should be regenerating from conceptual erasure