High-Godly and True-Godly Regenerationn revisions (Staff only)

[GyroNutz]

I'm not sure about making true godly Regenerationn from non existence erasure, since I don't know if that would actually be above conceptual erasure , narrative erasure I'm not sure if it's coherent enough of a concept to base regency levels on,

By 'non-existence' erasure we're referring to the type of existence where you don't even exist as/with a concept.

 

[Antoniofer]

Yeah, Narrative Erasure do not really means anything, sometimes is conceptual erasure, other is not worst than simply dying. And there's anything above Metaphysical Erasure, Regenerationn is restauring oneself to their optimal state, so a simply human regenerating from ultimate erasure is not different than a transdual/conceptual transcendent being regenerating from the same state from the human's.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I suppose I should word it better. Your concept is directly tied to you, it is inherent to you. The same cannot be said about the universe, which is just a space you inhabit. I cannot stress enough that surviving in a void has nothing to do at all with Regenerationn, we've established this, may we please move on.

Your concept isn't really tied to you as it exists just fine if you are gone. You need your concept to exist. However, that isn't unique to concepts. You also needs certain laws to sustain your existence, so wouldn't said laws have an equal place to the concept one needs to exist?

Maybe I should also reformulate. In my opinion if you destroy body + soul (or other equivalent metaphysical version of you) then all of "you" is gone. Meaning Mid-Godly is regenerating all of yourself via an external (possibly unknown) mechanism. (or no mechanism and "it just works", but that basically is a mechanism as well) High-Godly would be the same with said mechanism being especially inaccessible by it not be located within the plane you exist on.


If we say that regenerating from external stuff in itself should be no Regenerationn tier, because that isn't part of yourself anymore (and Type 8 Immortality instead), then we should IMO have no High-Godly Tier.

Low-Godly would then be regenerating after complete physical erasure and Mid-Godly would be regenerating after complete erasure of yourself physical and non-physical by whichever means on whichever scale whatsoever.

 

[Antvasima]

So, Mr. Bambu's option with true godly being recovery from type 1 (1-A level Platonic) conceptual erasure would be preferable then? I also vaguely recall Ultima saying that he would modify it later though.

 

[Overlord775]

@Don't

Those "laws" aren't necessary for your existance, they are necessary for your building blocks, your matter, to exists.

They don't affect the immaterial

Regenerating from such laws disappearing would be just Low-Godly+Resistance to Physics Manipulation

 

[Sera_EX]

I really didn't want to comment here...No one's going to listen anyway. Look, deleting True Godly is the best option as it's been so far gone and completely misrepresented from what it was supposed to be that it's pointless to keep it around.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I agree, but I'd like to get some idea on High-Godly as well. True-Godly is arbitrary.

 

[Antvasima]

I am fine with conceptual erasure for High Godly in any case.

 

[SomebodyData]

I mean, if we can accurately represent it, it kinda gets rid of the misrepresentation issue on its own.

Either way I don't really mind revising the definition or deleting it entirely, so I guess I would be neutral here. Though the new definitions are much simplier to understand personally.

 

[Antvasima]

If we cannot reach a conclusion regarding True Godly, we might have to remove it, yes.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you to everybody who are helping out here in any case.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

From what I've heard with Bambu, yeah. Making high godly conceptual is probably for the best, given the current high-godly really...doesn't...make sense. Though, it being platonic is where I'm iffy. Mostly because I don't know what that is.

 

[Promestein]

Sure, no True-Godly, High-Godly can be conceptual (not necessarily Platonic, Aristotelian at least though), fine with that

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Bit late to the party here, but I feel like it'd be best to just delete both, as technically these both seem to be "Mid-Godly, but with some extra powers or stipulations thrown in", and allow other descriptors on the profile explain the rest of the minutae for VS scenarios.

 

[Overlord775]

I mean, the progression makes sense

Physical<Immaterial<Conceptual

 

[Antvasima]

I would much prefer to keep High-Godly at least.

 

[GyroNutz]

I do agree that High-Godly should be kept. Neutral as to whether or not people want to nuke True Godly.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I'm fine with removing True-Godly and making High-Godly concept erasure.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Fine with removal of True-Godly.

 

[Antvasima]

Just a reminder that it will require a lot of organised community work to find all of the High-Godly and True-Godly Regenerationn profiles, and evaluate and adjust them when necessary. Help is appreciated.

 

[GyroNutz]

Mid-Godly as well, as there are cases such as Lavos (I believe) who would be upgraded to High-Godly under the new system.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'd also like to hear input from someone like Ultima Reality however. But yes, I think High-Godly should be kept at least because Mid-Godly being the highest tier wouldn't make sense and we'd have to rename that and possibly Low-Godly. I'm fine with True-Godly getting merged into High-Godly.

 

[Udlmaster]

Well, yes, Narrative would be above Conceptual existence, as without your narrative, you don't exist even conceptually, for example:

Your Narrative is all you are, including everything you've ever done, ever be, ever do, all your existence on all levels, if you are no longer written on the page, all you've done, will do, will be, your very existence will never have, never will and never is. Even your concept is gone because of this.


The Major problem is that the original is fallacious, we're assuming that's any EE from a 1-A being > all other regen. I.E Physical EE from 1-A > Conceptual regen because 1-A.

Were making a hasty conclusion which isn't backed up by our own system, that's the major issue, with My proposal of Narrative erasure or Ultima's proposal of beyond the Duality of Existence and Non-existence are levels of reality, layers of an Onion.

 

[GrathOfLux]

I 100% agree with keeping High-Godly, but I'm neutral on removing True-Godly. It seems like there is a lot of disagreement as to how it would be handled, but I imagine there is some kind of agreement that could be reached as to what should justify True-Godly. And I also don't find it hard to believe that there would be things that you could not regenerate from even with Regenerationn from conceptual erasure.

If no conclusion can be reached, then I'm fine with just removing True-Godly entirely. But I think it's worth looking into it.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@Udlmaster

For the first part, That depends souly on the verse's cosmology. I can think of a few verses where being removed from a narrative is regarded inferior to lacking a concept. It also creates an odd situation with acausality in relation to narrative, and that's a can of worms I think we would all like to avoid

I agree with your second point tho

 

[Antvasima]

DarkGrath makes sense to me.

 

[Udlmaster]

@Udlmaster

For the first part, That depends souly on the verse's cosmology. I can think of a few verses where being removed from a narrative is regarded inferior to lacking a concept. It also creates an odd situation with acausality in relation to narrative, and that's a can of worms I think we would all like to avoid

I agree with your second point tho

>Welp, technically ne is not a concept
Yeah, I know that, if Non-existent physiology is 0 then beyond all concepts could be 2, as a high layer of existence, it could also be "infinity" as the idea is that you can't exactly reduce them, as the whole idea of reducing them with finite numbers wouldn't work a infinite being, but anyway.

>To be short, if the being was erased to the point that no one remember it, there's no traces of it existing anywhere, it has no point of view, then is ultimately erased

But that would be less then being conceptually erased, and even then, conceptually erasing them would lead to this.

Which is why I posited the idea of the Plot Erasure.

If the Plot is shown to contain all concepts within it, then erasing the final layer of the "onion" (The layer of the onion analogy is me explaining reality like layers of an onion each getting more complex and larger with each layer.), The Plot would contain everything beyond even the concepts.

So if we go to the layer analogy, we have physical, spiritual/mental, conceptual/abstract and then meta.

>Plot Erasure is variable tho, not all verses acknowledge they are part of an story

Yeah, which is why the suffix of "Plot must be shown to contain or be superior to the abstract concepts of the verse", or otherwise it would be equal to conceptual Erasure.

 

[Ionliosite]

I agree with removing True Godly and making High Godly conceptual erasure.

 

[Antvasima]

It seems like we are either leaning toward the solution that Ionliosite just mentioned, or making True Godly into narrative erasure.

 

[Sera_EX]

Conceptual erasure (as a broad term) and especially narrative erasure are nonsense terms. They are incomparable to things like molecular Regenerationn, spiritual Regenerationn, or regen from existence erasure. After that, things become arbitrary; defined only by however the verse decides it works. I think we should stop at existence erasure.

 

[Udlmaster]

Conceptual erasure (as a broad term) and especially narrative erasure are nonsense terms. They are incomparable to things like molecular Regenerationn, spiritual Regenerationn, or regen from existence erasure. After that, things become arbitrary; defined only by however the verse decides it works. I think we should stop at existence erasure.

Actually, they're very much so equatable.

The all the regenerations work on being reduced to even less things.

"Not even your body exists anymore" --> "Not even your soul exists anymore" --> "Not even your concept exists anymore" --> "You're not even written on the page anymore/You're not even in the Story any more."

 

[Sera_EX]

"Concept" has not set definition. It's verse-specific. In some cases, the soul > concept, in others existence > concept, and even still in others concept > souls or existence. It's an extremely overhyped concept (no pun intended).

"Erased" from a story as a standard is unacceptable. It requires a verse to have to acknowledge it's part of a story. Unlike tier-based requirements which are fine, verse-based requirements are not.

High-Godly should just be regen from the only thing can prevent mid-godly regen, that is the total sum of one's being (existence erasure) being completely destroyed, something we can easily apply to virtually all verses. True Godly should just go away forever.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

High-Godly should just be regen from the only thing can prevent mid-godly regen, that is the total sum of one's being (existence erasure) being completely destroyed, something we can easily apply to virtually all verses. True Godly should just go away forever.

I am a little lost with this quote. If MG is coming back from EE, is HG coming back from EE that bypases MG or?

 

[Udlmaster]

"Concept" has not set definition. It's verse-specific. In some cases, the soul > concept, in others existence > concept, and even still in others concept > souls or existence. It's an extremely overhyped concept (no pun intended).

Those are a considerable minority if they even exist, the vast majority treat souls as less than concepts, and Concepts has a set definition, its why we have rules and definition pages.

And we already define Concepts as is, it's why we have concept manipulation.

"Erased" from a story as a standard is unacceptable. It requires a verse to have to acknowledge it's part of a story.

Okay, and? Atomic erasure requires the verse to acknowledge atoms are apart of the story and not some other idea.

Soul erasure requires the verse to acknowledge that souls exist, the verse having to show feats/statements for things is not a bad thing.

Unlike tier-based requirements which are fine, verse-based requirements are not.

Tier-based requirements are not fine, because they're fallacious. Versed-based are totally fine, they're already verse based.

There are verses where Souls dont exist, meaning Mid-Godly is verse based already, defeating your argument.

As for the other part, it doesn't seem to even relate to anything.

 

[Moritzva]

I agree with Sera on most points, but I must add - the total sum of one's being being erased, what exactly would that entail? If coming back from not the soul, body, or mind qualifies as mid-godly, what more is there to be erased that isn't on a higher level (be it conceptual, narrative, whatever overhyped label is put on it)?

 

[Antoniofer]

You can translate Low-Godly as regenerating their [physical] body from their in corporeal essence (be mind, soul or a backup). Atoms exist, the verse do not need to acknowledge they exist cuz is an universal constant, and if the verse simply doesn't mention it, then that just mean you're not going to get elevated levels of regens (unless it directly skip to recreating a body from their essence).

In the other hand, Narrative Erasure do not really means anything, is not standarized, and the author can give it the the regen level it wishes, sometimes it doesn't even involve dying like the case of Chowder.

 

[Udlmaster]

You can translate Low-Godly as regenerating their [physical] body from their in corporeal essence (be mind, soul or a backup). Atoms exist, the verse do not need to acknowledge they exist cuz is an universal constant, and if the verse simply doesn't mention it, then that just mean you're not going to get elevated levels of regens (unless it directly skip to recreating a body from their essence).
In the other hand, Narrative Erasure do not really means anything, is not standarized, and the author can give it the the regen level it wishes, sometimes it doesn't even involve dying like the case of Chowder.

Atoms are not Universal constants, for example, Mythology is having issues of people assuming the Earth is round and such even though that wasn't the case for the Myths.

No myths would have Atomic regen because Atoms dont exist in mythology.

 

[Antoniofer]

Having a flat Earth do not discard people from being made of matter, if you're going to tell me that people are made of something like aether, nether or ectoplasm, then fine, they aren't made of [conventional] atoms; but stuff as matter, photons, gravity, are real and those universal constant, and are applicable unless the verse way-to-be enter in conflict with those physics.

 

[Antvasima]

So as a compromise solution, should we make High-Godly conceptual erasure and get rid of True-Godly?