High-Godly and True-Godly Regenerationn revisions (Staff only)

[Udlmaster]

Having a flat Earth do not discard people from being made of matter, if you're going to tell me that people are made of something like aether, nether or ectoplasm, then fine, they aren't made of [conventional] atoms; but stuff as matter, photons, gravity, are real and those universal constant, and are applicable unless the verse way-to-be enter in conflict with those physics.

You kinda completely missed my point on the matter.

Matter isn't a universal constant, as Atoms only applies when there would assumed to be Atoms in the verse.

Mythological fictions do not assume atoms exist, atoms did not exist when they where written, therefore, atoms cannot apply and isn't Universal across fiction.

 

[Sera_EX]

@Dragon

MG is regen from soul destruction, not EE.

@Udl

Low Godly doesn't require a soul. It can also be a consciousness of sorts. Anything mental-spiritual equivalent works.

@Ant

We really shouldn't use "conceptual erasure"

 

[Antoniofer]

Sounds like the kind of arguments that people will use to make character from mythologies immune to Matter Manipulation.

Either way, going to agree with Sera, welp kinda, leaving High-Godly as regenerating from any erasure/destruction at physical, spiritual, perspective, probability, etc. level, basically would be the same as a person that do not exist is not mentioned not remembered (that would be like the same as people generally call Conceptual Erasure).

 

[Sera_EX]

One's existence or concept/whatever can be erased and still be remembered. To have "they can't be remembered" as a requirement is bad too.

 

[Udlmaster]

@Udl

Low Godly doesn't require a soul. It can also be a consciousness of sorts. Anything mental-spiritual equivalent works.

I didn't say it did...

Antoniofer said: Sounds like the kind of arguments that people will use to make character from mythologies immune to Matter Manipulation.
Not really we would still have the pseudo-verse equalisation where things which are similar are considered the same, such as Chi beitgn equalisased across verses.

 

[Moritzva]

So, Mid-Godly would be destroyed on just about most levels, High-Godly would be complete and utter erasure on every single level one could think of?

Under Sera's suggestion, that is.

 

[Antvasima]

@Sera

Conceptual erasure makes sense to me. Is there anything that you could support in its stead?

Edit: Never mind. I just saw Moritzva's post.

 

[Antoniofer]

Then the one that have High-Godly should have regenerated from being wiped out from memories too, if not then, it would be only Mid-Godly.

And Chi and matter are not the same, they can't be equalized, but one do not pay attention to their names, but rather to their nature/definition.

 

[Sera_EX]

Low Godly is recovery from damage that negates High regen, and requires a soul or consciousness, thus can be prevented if one destroys their soul or consciousness.

Mid Godly is recovery from damage that negates Low Godly (e.g. spiritual destruction) but can be prevented through EE.

High Godly hence would be recovery from damage that negates Mid Godly, which was just stated to be EE.

High Godly is regen from EE, the mechanics don't matter.

High-Godly can be overcome/prevented by things like narrative erasure. And we should stop the regen level there.

As Udl said, each level of regen overcomes what negates the previous level. This goes all the way back to Low regen. The problem is our higher levels of regen became way too specific and cater to only a handful of verses that have fancy powers or applications.

 

[Andytrenom]

"MG is regen from soul destruction, not EE."

That's not at all how I've seen it being treated, even the definition on our page clearly alludes to existence erasure

"Mid-Godly: The ability to regenerate even after being completely erased from existence, including mind, body, and soul

 

[Moritzva]

I agree with Sera and I think her explanations are reasonable and sensible.

 

[Antvasima]

So, should High-Godly be something like "Complete and utter eradication, including on a conceptual and narrative level"?

 

[Sera_EX]

Something must have changed because MG was not regen from EE. Hell, that's the problem right there. If MG is recovery from EE, then High Godly shouldn't even exist.

Remove EE from MG and give it to HG or remove HG.

 

[Sera_EX]

High Godly should just be regen from existence erasure, as conceptual erasure and narrative erasure are just variations of existence erasure anyway. Mid-Godly is just regen from physical and spiritual (or metaphysical) destruction. That's it.

Honestly, what's worse is there are characters who have Mid Godly for being able to regen from spiritual destruction yet would get rekt by EE. So either they would need to be downgraded to Low Godly (despite them having superior regen) or EE should be what prevents Mid Godly and recovery form even EE is what High Godly should be.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I suppose that Sera seems to make sense, but we would have to be prepared to perform considerable amounts of profiles editing work after this revision.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Yeah, if we change Mid-Godly that would affect literally hundreds of profiles, so be prepared boys

 

[Elizhaa]

Yeah, if we change Mid-Godly that would affect literally hundreds of profiles, so be prepared boys

Going from what I see, I agree. A lot of profiles with Mid-Godly Regenerationn would get their Regenerationn update to High-Godly Regenerationn.

 

[Overlord775]

WHAT

stop right now

the entire thread shouldn't be decided by only Sera's view, basically everybody else had agree that Conceptual Erasure was fine, so turning everything around because one person said "no" shouldn't be a thing.

@Sera

If a verse threats souls > Concepts, then regenerating from the soul in that said verse would simply be threated as High-Godly

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Calm down. Some people are just saying they agree and that if it were to go through, what changes would be made...

 

[Sera_EX]

Mob mentality doesn't work with me. "Concept wank" is the new meme, it overtook 1-A in terms of how people misrepresent it. Objective requirements for an ability type should never' vary from verse to verse. So what you just said about souls > concepts being High Godly if the verse treats it as such is not true, whatsoever, regardless of whatever versus thread conclusion lead you believe that.

 

[Antvasima]

So this is what is being suggested then?

Mid-Godly: Recovering from being destroyed, body and soul.

High-Godly: Recovering from complete and utter Existence Erasure in every single respect.

 

[Sera_EX]

Yes

 

[Moritzva]

@Overlord Could you explain why Conceptual is fine? Sera made a convincing argument for the contrary.

 

[Overlord775]

@Sera

Not mass mentality, people like Bambu have bringed up good point for the conceptual regen and they shouldn't be discarded just because you think so

Concepts are almost universally threated as > soul in media where they both show up

also, you know

2. False Platonic Concept: Such concepts, or forms, are mostly transcendent of reality. These concepts shape all of reality and whatever level that reality exists in, and everything in reality "participates" in these concepts. These concepts interact with their objects in the same manner as listed above. In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept on whatever scale has been shown.

nobody with a straight face will tell you that this is < souls

@Ant

Don't count your chickens before the eggs are hatched, there's still a lot of discussion to be done here, rushing thing would be only be bad

 

[Moritzva]

Saying "Sera thinks so" is utterly fallacious and ignores the many facts at play, including the varying definitions and strengths of concepts that not all verses apply by.

Not to mention, the soul, too, is also varying in strength and definition.

So to say Concept > Soul, or Soul > Concept, is absolutely impossible since neither have any remotely concrete definition.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

You seem to think that we are just discarding all the arguments above just because "Sera thinks so" which is not true. If people agree with her points then they have every right to, just like people have the right to agree with Bambu. No one is saying that we should instantly jump to Sera's thoughts either. I feel like you are jumping to conclusions here.

 

[Antoniofer]

Would the concept of an individual compares to that? Is not something like the concept of life (destroy it and everyone dies) or the concept of death (destroy it and everyone turns immortal), surviving that, either cuz someone transcend that concept or is anchored, is not a Regenerationn feat.

 

[Moritzva]

Concepts are tricky business. Sera's explanation is far more sensible and reliable - Mid-Godly is surviving being destroyed on most conventional senses of the essence, High-Godly is being absolutely erased. It's the difference between Low-Godly and High, in a sense.

That makes sense, is easily judge-able, and can still factor in things such as conceptual erasure. If you survive conceptual erasure on every level, and that conceptual erasure is indeed very good? Cool! That's a very strong High-Godly feat. Conceptual destruction? I haven't seen that before, but it's inferior to erasure, so Mid-Godly.

This system clearly encompasses the most scenarios the easiest.

Though the only question would be, if Low-Godly covers bodily EE, does Mid-Godly only cover bodily EE and mind/soul destruction? What about bodily, mind, and soul destruction? The former seems incredibly rare and specific, and the latter has properties that are inferior to Low-Godly. So I'd appreciate discussion about that.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@Sera

Usually if someone is erased in Mind, Soul, and Body, that is what Mid-Godly regen is, if that is not what it used to be, that is ok. Note that concept isn't mentioned here for standard form, so high godly would be their concept, but I could also raise that perhaps it should be regenerating from other more fundamental and/or transcendental parts of someone being erased beyond these.

Also, being erased on "all levels of existence" or "completely" is incredibly vague, and it would be almost impossible to prove without completely straight up statements, and we know how reliable those can be.

 

[Antvasima]

@Overlord

Okay. No problem.

 

[Overlord775]

@Dragon

Ant was very much acting that way if you have not realized

@Antonio

Concepts are the true essence of a being, the platonic manifestation of everything you are and will ever be.

Trascending concepts is threated as resistance and anchoring is not a term used by the wiki

which is different from being destryed by said concept nuking and coming back anyway, because it means your concept regenerated as swell.

@Mort

Being "absolutely erased" is WAAAY more vague, it could mean nothing and everything.

It's not a solid standard, as Low-Godly can be reffered to as "Absolutelly erased" in the physical sense and even more so Mid-Godly.

also i'd like to point out that Mid-Godly is threated as based on soul destruction, shown by the example of God_Zamasu_(Chou)

 

[Sera_EX]

@Mortizva

Soul and mind are equivocal in the defintion of Low-Godly. So bodily and spiritual, or bodily, spiritual, and mental is all Mid-Godly. Think of it as: low-godly is regen from total physical destruction whereas mid-godly is regen from physical and metaphysical destruction.

Likewise for High-Godly, conceptual and narrative erasure are equivocal to existence erasure.

@Iapitus

That's my point. Mind, soul, and body erasure recovery is Mid-Godly however mind, soul, and body are not the totality of one's "existence". I know there's some verses that say "if their soul is destroyed they'll cease to exist" but thats referring to there being nothing left (oblivion, if you will).

 

[Moritzva]

@Sera Yes, but a feat of erasing the body, yet only destroying the esoteric essence (soul, mind, etc) isn't something I've ever seen, ever. Is the soul/mind being destroyed seen as strictly above the body being destroyed? The body, and the mind/soul/etc are often seen as two dual parts in various media, after all.

Effectively, Low-Godly is about erasure of the body, while Mid-Godly isn't about erasure, but only destruction of the body and essence. Would being able to regenerate from only the essence being destroyed, not the body, be Mid-Godly? After all, the body isn't being erased, nor destroyed.

Though if we assume Mid-Godly treats a spiritual essence as superior to the body, then this'll be solved handily, as we can ignore the body in such a case. The problem is that making such an assumption is no better than making assumptions about conceptuality.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"Ant was very much acting that way if you have not realized"

Not really. His first comment was saying she made sense and that if this were to happen, there would need to be preparations for a huge revision. His second comment was summarizing Sera'S proposal.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@Sera In some verses they are, in some verses its not, and even if an individual character may refer to that as the totality of ones existence, doesn't mean it is, which is the exact problem. This could never be verified. Also, you could argue that they haven't been properly erased if, for example, they aren't erased retroactively.

From what I understand, your way would basically make it so only statements of existence erasure would grant high godly, when previously other forms of attack on Mind, Soul, and Body destroying them completely would be fine. You had said before that standards should not vary from verse to verse, but this would bring in that, as if something like the concepts of self, or the concept of humanity, etc. Could be considered fundamental to the person in one verse but not in the other

 

[Moritzva]

Just to clarify, will Mid-Godly include erasure or not? Since 'the totality of one's existence' is pretty vague and dependent on the verse, so I'd rather that not be the singular factor separating Mid and High.

 

[Antvasima]

I can't just suddenly enforce important changes like this. If there is some potentially dangerous change to the wiki, I might be able to block it, but that is the limit of my authority.

 

[Sera_EX]

@Moritzva

What kind of "erasure"?

@Iapitus

Not what I'm saying. You don't need statements of EE to get High Godly, you simply need literal existence erasure and not the old figurative "they'll cease to be because there's no soul" cliche.

Yes, this can be EE, CE, or NE among others. My point is conceptual erasure is not > EE and NE is not > certain types of CE. Only very nuanced and specific verses make those distinctions.

 

[Overlord775]

Soul/Mind Erasure being differenciated from destruction is not right, as the two terms are used interchangeably in fiction

Conceptual Erasure is very much better than normal erasure because you don't just not exist anymore, as it makes so you never existed and can't ever exist again.

 

[Overlord775]

I can't just suddenly enforce important changes like this. If there is some potentially dangerous change to the wiki, I might be able to block it, but that is the limit of my authority.

You had spooked me <-<