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I can work with that then, as long as she ain't like psychic, I'll see if I can write something up.
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I can work with that then, as long as she ain't like psychic, I'll see if I can write something up.
Chariot is still writing something give him timeIs it safe to say Rubia advances to the finale ? Finale was supposed to take place a week ago arguments for joseph doesn't seem strong.
It depends what those "hits" Joseph takes are. If the damage he receives are from her non-durability negating fire spells, then maybe. However, if she uses Frost Blaze or End of Vermillion and it lands, it's kind of game over, especially with Frost Blaze; anything the blue flames hit freezes solid and then shatters. Even if not those, Muspelheim is so strong it would severely damage Joseph.
Both due to the nature of Rubia's personality and spells, and backed up with her intelligence and experience, she's likely to go for complete destruction and not risk Joseph potentially surviving. It's not ooc for her to hit big.
I highly doubt Joseph would play dead from the start.
I see him only doing that if he takes damage and/or can't land a hit, and he needs to come up with a better plan.
That means that, if he plays dead, it would be after some time has passed during the fight and he's assessed the situation. It seems a bit unlikely for Joseph to reach a point in the fight where he hasn't been hit by FB or EoV.
Also, even if the fight reaches a point where Joseph is still alive and mimics death perfectly, and while I agree Rubia is unlikely to realize that death-faking, she still possesses instinctive reactions, stat reduction and illusions.
I agree Joseph has some ways of winning, but I don't think it reached >50%. Rubia has a little too much in her arsenal, and a little too much effective arsenal, for Joseph to win a majority of times.
His Hamon is strong, but it requiring physical contact against someone who can casually fight from range and with means to disrupt Joseph's attempts to land a hit, Rubia has the upper hand.
Anyway when the blood vessels are frozen no hamonI wouldn't be so sure, Joseph is a Hamon master, he should by all accounts be able to mitigate flash freezing, because let's not forget, Dio has contact based flash freezing and there's heat based Hamon techniques like Scarlet Overdrive. And let's not forget Hamon can actually cast forcefields, albeit, small ones, which can protect from direct contact based attacks.
Also like, just dodge the dangerous shit? He's not dumb, avoid what he should, exploit what he can, he wouldn't try and tank a nuke to play dead, he'd tank something he knows he can actually tank.
Intellect and Experience isn't gonna matter a whole lot when Joseph actively memes on dudes with millennia of experience with super IQ's. And not like that's gonna matter here regardless, she has no experience with Hamon and she isn't exactly gonna start throwing hands with Joseph so so much for skill (and if she did she'd be in a huge disadvantage).
He'll do it whenever he pleases, against Wham he did it after getting struck once. If he knows he can't win head on, he won't. He never has gone and stayed in a fight he knew would be best to tackle in a different way. If she's as stacked as you say she is, damn right he'll do it from the start, especially given his own analytical prediction.
He doesn't even need to take damage, he just needs to see her do shit like start flying and using any AOE or range attack. Joseph isn't one for uphill battles, he'd rather just say **** it and be a rat.
Define "some time", a few seconds? A few minutes? It wouldn't take much to push Joseph to play dirty, not much at all given he does so to some extent in every fight he's ever been in including fights where his foes were actually playing fair like Wham.
Yeah, so? What good is that if Joseph just channels a hamon burst from below her after she thinks she won? Or just stores some Hamon into one of the billion examples of plant life and waits till she goes by it.
That's actually completely and utterly false, Joseph doesn't need contact, he can channel Hamon into objects and even store Hamon into it, let me remind, the environment they're in, literally everything can conduct Hamon and can also store it. Technically speaking, if Joseph wanted to, he could send a Hamon burst through the ground to explode beneath his foe the instant the match starts without even needing to move, he could not even move, and yet kill his foe from behind, if what you say is true about her needing to actually see it, this could spell disaster if the dude who's just standing there catches her offguard.
And don't forget, Joseph has Hamon shrouds, which are effectively skin tight forcefields that protect from various forces, Joseph can very much avoid some moves by making what is effectively a forcefield. You say Rubia has an effective arsenal and instant kill moves, but you forget that everything around her in this situation, and I mean that, EVERYTHING, is lethal, she can't come into contact with the ground, trees, anything, not a single thing, because if she does she'd die. She best damn hope she kills Joseph, and kills Joseph fast before he gets even one hit in, while she's effectively playing floor and 90% of her environment and the area around her is lava.
Also if she flies Joseph has a tommy gun and crossbolt he can (and has in the case of the latter), infuse with Hamon, he's also a crackshot and can ricochet so even if she does dodge or he misses, she best be careful because that's gonna be coming back to strike her from behind.
False, no new Hamon.
Residual Hamon is still possible.
I mean, just look at Dire, literally frozen solid, shattered, and as just a disembodied head, could still infuse a rose with Hamon.
Any counters?Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Fire Manipulation, Proficient Swordswoman, Spirit Contract, Energy Manipulation, Spirit Manipulation, Extremely sharp senses and Extrasensory Perception reaching borderline Precognition (As a former Elemental Queen, her senses are among the highest of the entire series, and her instinct is so sharp she can deduce and predict events), Non-Physical Interaction (Can interact and harm spirits that can turn intangible or incorporeal), Information Analysis (Can understand an opponent's skill and power level with a quick overview), Heat Manipulation, Homing Attack, Explosion Manipulation, Forcefield Creation, Durability Negation with Frost Blaze and End of Vermillion, Resistance Negation with high-level spells (Her stronger flames have melted a cathedral protected by fire-resisting spells, and Frost Blaze bypasses both fire and ice resistance due to its nature), Slight Air Manipulation (Can absorb oxygen with her flames and turn wind into a fire vortex), Instinctive Reaction (Better than Kamito's; she can react to attacks from blind-spot or who are camouflaged, and to assassins that specialize in stealth), Statistics Amplification by infusing her body parts with Divine Power, Can infuse her whole body with Divine Power, Freezing with Frost Blaze, Statistics Amplification and Healing with Eternal Blood of Phoenix, Purification (Types 1, 2 and 3), Sealing and Unsealing with Brand of Darkness, Statistics Reduction and Stealth Mastery with Isolation Barrier, Necromancy and Resurrection (limited to spirits), Illusion Creation by manipulating temperature, Danmaku with Fire Burst, Curse Manipulation and Madness Manipulation (Type 2) as a result of Mind Manipulation with Word of Power (Can turn anyone berserk, make their powers uncontrollable, and bring forth subconscious and primal instincts), Memory Manipulation (not combat-applicable, unless used after Mind Manipulation), Aura (Intimidation and powerful enough to burn things around her), Social Influencing (Became the leader of a rebellion in another country and convinced hundreds of people to follow her with unflinching loyalty), Environmental Destruction with Muspelheim, Weapon Summoning, Telepathy with Laevateinn and minor spirits, Minor Light Manipulation, Resistance to (fire, steel, cold, earth, wind, electricity, poison, diseases, mind manipulation, memory manipulation, and Fear Manipulation (Unfazed by Muir Alenstarl's presence)), Great Strategist, (Spatial Manipulation, Magma Manipulation, Fire Absorption, Fire Resistance Negation and Regeneration (at least Mid, near-instantaneous, possibly High-Mid with more time)) with Laevateinn's Titan form
Uh yeah, see above?
Listing a P&A section and going "any counters" isn't exactly how we do things, in that same vain I could just list Joseph's whole P&A and go "any counters?".
- Frost Blaze: The logic-bending freezing flames. They freeze anything they touch, including even flames, make them very fragile and can thus shatter them into tiny pieces. These flames later one-shot Fianna's Georgios, and even froze Terminus Est who can resist ice and is known as an anti-magic legendary sword[2]
- End of Vermillion: The power of Flame-Burning Flames, the strongest type of flames. The spell can do anything other fire spells can, but also destroys or devours other flames, and can even annihilate weaker fire creatures. Effective at blocking water attacks. Their power is such that they can bypass fire resistance. Those flames are described as being foreign to both the Human World and the Spirit World (Astral Zero), implying the origin of those flames is otherwordly[5]. The flames of this spell are strong enough to resist getting absorbed[6] by other spells or weakening effects
ignore him, he's always like that,Uh yeah, see above?
Listing a P&A section and going "any counters" isn't exactly how we do things, in that same vain I could just list Joseph's whole P&A and go "any counters?".
Actually yeah in that case, what's her counter to Joseph instantly Hamon channeling her the moment the match starts given the environment allows for it?
What's that supposed to mean?ignore him, he's always like that,
They bend logic and ignore durability she has way too many win consI straight up pointed out a an explicit counter to the first one, hamon shrouds, "they freeze anything they touch", forcefield kinda stops it from touching lad.
Alright one vote for JosephJojo FRA
Nah the Hamon will get frozen and that's bad for joseph. Then she can use her other spells or just frost blaze again and again and her barriers block out Hamon and all of jojos other attacks so Rubia still wins this she has way more wincoins and defensive skills and healing.I straight up pointed out a an explicit counter to the first one, hamon shrouds, "they freeze anything they touch", forcefield kinda stops it from touching lad.
Yeah so? Who gives a shit what they do if the main condition for doing any of that is "makes physical contact with foe", and the foe can actively prevent physical contact?They bend logic and ignore durability she has way too many win cons
Yeah so? Who gives a shit what they do if the main condition for doing any of that is "makes physical contact with foe", and the foe can actively prevent physical contact?
Nah the Hamon will get frozen and that's bad for joseph. Then she can use her other spells or just frost blaze again and again and her barriers block out Hamon and all of jojos other attacks so Rubia still wins this she has way more wincoins and defensive skills and healing.
Uh. Lad, Hamon doesn't get frozen, Hamon is a noncorporal energy.Nah the Hamon will get frozen and that's bad for joseph. Then she can use her other spells or just frost blaze again and again and her barriers block out Hamon and all of jojos other attacks so Rubia still wins this she has way more wincoins and defensive skills and healing.
It's on her profile she has npi with her attacks as wellYou're effectively arguing she can freeze ghost electricity mate, don't be so surprised that I straight up call bullshit on that.
Yeah so? Having NPI doesn't mean that particular attack can freeze things that logically are incapable of being frozen, let alone things that have phasing as a key part of its power.
There's a difference between being able to punch a ghost, and being able to freeze it solid.
And I hope you realize, arguing that it'd freeze the Hamon would only spell disaster for her, let's say she does freeze the Hamon, cool, she just ****** up though. That would enable Joseph to easily fool her into thinking she got him and for her to lower her guard, but in reality, it wasn't him that was frozen, it was just the thin layer of Hamon over him, this would enable him to easily catch her offguard.
And as we all know Hamon can be channeled through ice with zero issue, Joseph wouldn't even have to move, he could channel Hamon through the ice, into the lush greens, and then fry her. And she wouldn't ever see it coming.
Things working aren't always a good thing, it can very easily be a bad thing.
Extremely sharp senses and Extrasensory Perception reaching borderline Precognition (As a former Elemental Queen, her senses are among the highest of the entire series, and her instinct is so sharp she can deduce and predict events)
Non-Physical Interaction (Can interact and harm spirits that can turn intangible or incorporeal), Information Analysis (Can understand an opponent's skill and power level with a quick overview),
Instinctive Reaction (Better than Kamito's; she can react to attacks from blind-spot or who are camouflaged, and to assassins that specialize in stealth),
And forcefield creation counters all that
(Can understand an opponent's skill and power level with a quick overview),
And forcefield creation counters all that
Having sharp senses that border on precog.
Based on the scans and video, it looks like it depends where his attack lands, but yeah, that's fair and understood.
Rubia has the tools needed to counter Jospeh and score a win, so Rubia FRA!
I don't think there is much Joseph can do here, it'd be difficult to make use of his intellect with laying trapsAka what he did to deku when he **** stomped himwhen she can Chandra everything into ashes, and quickly burn away most of the environment, while he has the Ult overdrive, that's a one shot use, and the rest of the time he's hitting at a much lower AP, if he can even get close, I'd say Rubia outranges and burns everything in her path, for this reason, Im voting her
Rubia FRA
new arguments have been made, do you want to change your vote?Rubia Fra
If it's paired with heightened senses trained for years, absolutely it can. Her reactions are better than a guy's who reacted to an attack coming from below him and who couldn't sense said attack.Instinctive Reaction doesn't help if you don't know where it's coming from, when it's coming or if you're in any danger to begin with
And like I mentioned early in the thread. Conversely, Joseph has no intel on Rubia's spells. He doesn't preemptively know Frost Blaze isn't just fancy-looking flames but actually a death sentence, nor does he know about EoV, Word of Power, her illusions, or her stat amps.you know that doesn't enable her to understand or know what Hamon is right?
If it's paired with heightened senses trained for years, absolutely it can. Her reactions are better than a guy's who reacted to an attack coming from below him and who couldn't sense said attack.
Doesn't need to, Joseph isn't exactly one for letting himself get hit, he ain't Saitama. Like lad, whether it's instant death or not, he isn't going to just let himself to get hit by it, if he gets hit by anything, he's going to wait till he knows it's something he can risk taking. And stat amps? Joseph's stat amps actually put him higher than her, he's over two one shots above the + when using his ultimate amp, wouldn't call that a boon on her end. Illusions I'm unsure on, mostly because Hamon has been shown breaking various mental ailments on others.And like I mentioned early in the thread. Conversely, Joseph has no intel on Rubia's spells. He doesn't preemptively know Frost Blaze isn't just fancy-looking flames but actually a death sentence, nor does he know about EoV, Word of Power, her illusions, or her stat amps.
Your arguments about Joseph tricking Rubia with feinting death assume Rubia would actually fall for the trick. Rubia has to reason to ever get close to Joseph, even if she thinks he's dead, she'll just incinerate or freeze him from afar.
Scarlet Overdrive doesn't really work here. Frost Blaze is a spell that can destroy elements and energy, so trying to melt the ice with fire won't work. Moreover, EoV is an anti-fire spell anyway, so he actually goes for Scarlet Overdrive, he's screwed.
Uh, yeah, you do realize that standing on the ground can enable him to channel it into the ground, or the things touching the ground, or this, or that and then release it in bursts. Reading a wiki article and expecting to know the exact mechanics is a bad move on your part. Obviously Joseph can't like Hamon the ******* moon from the ground, but he can go A>B>C>D>E>F>etc, as long as one thing is in contact with him, it can be channeled and domino'd.I went to check Hamon's page on the Jojo wikia. For the Hamon energy to be applied to objects, said object needs to be in contact with the user's body.
It can't just be used on anything around him. So, no, Joseph can't turn the entire environment into his weapon, even less so in such a short time. Also, inorganic materials cannot store the Hamon energy.
On the topic of abilities, some of Hamon's applications are missing from Joseph's profile, like Forcefield, Fire manip, and others. They should be added.
Also, also, elementalists can interact, fight, and damage ghosts, as well as energies that are described as "otherwordly" and "foreign to this world" by the narrative. I agree elemental NPI is different from other forms of NPI, but Rubia has several, so it's not unlikely she can interact with the Hamon energy.
On another topic, if Joseph decides to play dead, you're assuming Rubia will casually check his body if he's dead. It's not ooc for her to just keep nuking him from afar. Again, she has no reason to approach him when she knows he's a melee fighter.
You mentioned somewhere Joseph could dodge. On paper, yes, he can. But with equalized speed and Rubia's own skill, fully escaping her attacks that all have both long range and large AoE isn't something that's easily done consistently,
even less you when you seem focused on Joseph "playing dead". That just makes him an immobile target.
You also seemed to imply Joseph could Hamon what Frost Blaze freezes. Even if he does, I don't see how that's a problem for Rubia. It's not like the ice is connected to Rubia's body with a thread or something for Hamon to traverse to her. And if FB freezes and crushes his body, that's not helping.
About the forcefield, Rubia quite literally has a spell that shatters barriers and forcefields.
And you're ridicuously assuming Rubia will just... let herself get attacked and die.
Of course she won't. Attacks as a result of erupting the ground, or breaking trees or boulders isn't something that'll surprise Rubia with her extrasensory perception.
Rubia has well enough the means to deal with Joseph before Joseph's own tricks and chaining Hamon shenanigans leave a lasting impact on Rubia,
who has both the arsenal, skill and experience to sense it coming and dodge it just fine herself.
Rubia has her own tricks Joseph has no way of knowing, whether it's depowering him, using word of power, confusing him with illusions, and using spells that don't care about his defenses and crush them.
I'm not, I wouldn't be passive aggressive, I'd be flat out aggressive if I was actually in such a mood. If you thank that's passive aggressive, not sure what to tell you besides grow some skin I guess?Dude, seriously, stop being passive-aggresive with me. I didn't want to participate in this tournament to get headaches by arguing with people who take things the wrong way and then get passive-aggressive about it. Please stop that
Dude, seriously, stop being passive-aggresive with me.