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High 8-C Brackets Finale

Dargoo_Faust

Dargoo_Faust

Blue Doggo Enthusiast
VS Battles
Retired
15,636
5,391
3PLsgp
It's time.
Current Standings (A "-1" indicates the fighter was disqualified or was stomped)

Hub

The combatants for this round are Han Jee-Ha, submitted by Ricsi-Viragosi, and The Beheaded, submitted by Mr Bambu.

Company Arc Han is used, Speed is Equalized. Battle takes place at Final Destinatio (They start on either side of the platform), assume there are plenty of identical platforms flying along it for ranged fighting.

This is playing in the background
Han is 0.66 Tons with some 5.35 Ton spells, Beheaded is 8.76 Tons.

Han Jee-Ha -

The Beheaded - 10 (Bambu, Pixel, Litentric, Edward, Christian, Inverted, Jacky, Versus, Iapitus, MrKing)

Incon -

Han vs Beheaded
 
Let's all wait for Risci and Bambu before any hasty votes. Also, this music is ******* hype.

Win this for me, Beheaded.
 
@Pixel

What about me ;;

Anyway on the side of Han so naturally I'll be defending him.

Alright right off the get go, we know how both are gonna do things. Lay out all the traps for Beheaded while attacking, Jee-Han observes and reacts.

Observe right away will give him insight of how much stronger the enemy is since it displays stats. He'll figure out he use a lot of traps and that he won't be able to last if he faces him head on due to not just the AP advantage but the sheer number of attacks. So the first thing to do would be widen the distance between them, Han has the range advantage, and fight back that way.

It becomes a range fight no doubt, both of them using their best. Han with his bombardment of arrows which is likely to affect The Beheaded thanks to exploding. If it is reflected, Han would realize that and would realize the best course would be to prevent his attack from being reflected. Aka aim them at different angles so that the explosions are the ones that reach him. Dodging would become key for Han as his barrier even if multi layered is not suitable for block defense oriented fighting against BeHeaded.

However things won't stay above ground. Han is likely trying to bombard from afar and can likely take out the turrets while attacking Beheaded, but while doing that Gnome would likely be warping the environment. This is a serious issue for Beheaded's traps. It can really mess up how his traps are set up and the change of environment likely won't affect Beheaded too much but can still be an advantage to Han. Massive alterations, falling pillars and wall summoning can probably distract Beheaded for quite some time. Even with the Final Destination terrain, well, honestly I'm wondering if this is a suitable battlefield for both but ah what the heck.

Physical endurance would lower most physical damage taken by 27%. So that would turn the PHYSICAL attacks of Headless into 7.1248 tons. Still a big hitter but that's without other existing defenses that can be replaced. The elemental attacks are still gonna be an issue but most of those would be handled by barriers anyway.

Worst comes to worst if Han needs to recover he can dive underground, which honestly is likely where he's gonna stay most of the fight, and recover. Status ailments won't be an issue thanks to his healing technique and growing resistances to special effects. Though on the first place Han is gonna avoid getting hit all the time.

Transmutation is something not to worry about since Han doesn't really use any items. He also has the range advantage anyway and has backup staffs on his inventory. Speaking of his items there are also gains that he could make use of such as potions and the Invisibility Hat. I know there's a discussion saying it was something Han never used but just adding that in as an option.

By using turrets too, there's also the risk of giving exp to Han. Since I believe even destroying things like that can give him exp. If knocking out other people and destroying summons can give him exp I'm more than confident that it can. It's something small but it can build up the longer the battle remains.

On another note, there's a high likelihood that Han's use of tethers can be really surprising to Headless. Especially when it can wrap around an enemy quickly. Speed is equalized I know but a regular bombardment of arrows can shroud that and combine that with altering the terrain and it could go for some CC moments for Headless. If Han can use more of those, that might be enough time to trap him and charge up a Mana Bomb. Even with the existing AP gap, Han has always been able to harm others much much stronger than him by whittling them down so it's not a surprise if this tactic works on the long run. There's also the stacking effect from his other abilities that I'm going to have to check out with mini calcs.


On the other hand though, even as I say all of this? I'm honestly leaning more for a tie unless something really changes my mind.

Edit - Wait the area is Final Destination. That kinda makes it a bit more difficult since I have no idea what the terrain is on that thing. Though it means knocking off someone can kill them?

Edit Edit Edit -

As an extra bonus, this being Final Destination means Han would be pretty aware that this isn't an ID Barrier. So pulling the enemy into an ID Barrier into a more suitable battlefield with terrain would be an option. But then again he also has the advantage now of altering the terrain to the point that he could drop Headless to the abyss... and not the Gamer Abyss.

Excellent OST btw
 
Okay. Let's just give baseline points for Beheaded.

1. Forcefields are less of an issue for Beheaded than characters like Neo. The issue is that they constantly regenerate- however Beheaded's tactics are explicitly that he is attacking from many, many fronts, and it isn't just himself- his summons, traps, and turrets are additionally assisting, and his own attacks can function over each other, such as multiple grenades all at once.

2. If falling off is literally a win condition, and Beheaded would be familiar with that strategy, then he has another advantage here- the magnet grenade can just pull Han off and send him into the abyss below, effectively BFRing him. Han seems to lack flight in this key.

3. AP advantage is ridiculous. If Beheaded lands even a single strike on Han's actual body, Han is paste irrevocably. Furthermore, Beheaded is immune to projectiles (not physical strikes, don't ask me why it is very specific) up to his own level so any ranged attacks go straight out the window. Han has nothing as strong as Beheaded's raw AP. Furthermore, Beheaded can heal and become invulnerable to damage during that, too. For reference, he has 13x over Han's actual form.

4. A single resurrection could be pivotal. I hadn't brought it up in past threads since I doubt it was needed, none of them could take down Beheaded. However here it might be relevant. Once reaching death and only once, Beheaded will rise again to maximum health and continue fighting.

5. Obviously the age-old typical Beheaded strategies. If a weapon strikes his shield, that weapon is now gold coins. He's absolutely going to try to cover the entire battlefield in effects of some kind, be it ice-arrow firing turrets, balls of death energy, electric bolts, small tornadoes to shift around everything, etc. Beheaded's strategy is l o t s.

6. Some powers of Han's will flat out not work on Beheaded purely due to his status as what is functionally a corpse ragdoll possessed by a handful of sentient cells. Draining the life force from a corpse, for example, just is flat out a no. And a big part of why this is pivotal is that Han may try to do that- thus wasting even the briefest of seconds on his part.

7. Han abusing range advantage on a tiny arena is the worst point I have ever heard. Both of them have enough range to account for the entire arena so Han will not be abusing range any time soon unless he enjoys walking off into the abyss and killing himself.

8. Attack reflection. Beheaded already does not need to worry about Han's barrage of arrows since they just flat out cannot hurt him. But reflecting explosions and stuff back at Han? Now that's a strategy I can get behind.

9. Tethers, while a weird point, isn't valid for the guy that has fought the tentacle monster.

10. Pretty sure we established Han don't use no dirty damn BFR. Since it was brought up before and all. Just sayin'.

I vote for Beheaded, high-diff. The forcefields are the worst issue but Beheaded's raw versatility and huge AP advantage handle other obstacles relatively well. Even with Han's damage reduction he's still got the AP to one-shot, plus all of his other attacks are constantly harming Han as well. I'd point out that Beheaded's traps have similar AP and durability to himself. The summons are questionable since they're a horde of smaller creatures but collectively they have the same AP as well.
 
I mean

Ricsi is going to vote for Han

This is sorta how it goes boyo
 
>My pick lost in the first round.

>Bambu's pick made it to the Final Round

My soul died a little.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
>My pick lost in the first round.
>Bambu's pick made it to the Final Round

My soul died a little.
Click to expand...
what why
 
Tis a joke. I'm not being serious. It's just me a) being an asshole, 2) being petty and 3) poking fun of the fact that the guy who was so worried about Renamon and Neo had his pick make it to the final round lol.
 
Neo still should have won and would absolutely floor Beheaded
 
I have to vote Beheaded. Can't range spam on Final Destination.
 
ThePixelKirby said:
I have to vote Beheaded. Can't range spam on Final Destination.
Click to expand...
I mean I specified there's other platforms flying around so range can be a thing

Beheaded - 2 (Bambu, Pixel)
 
1) That is definitely a big thing and that's why I believe that going underground is the best method here. The alteration of terrain being handled by Gnome would mess with those turrets that said I'm curious on the summons since I don't see them much. What does Beheaded usually summon? And yes he does the whole "Form as many things as possible" but upon realizing that Han is not just gonna let him do that. Thus earth terrain motion. Pushing for this one but he might be even able to get some of said turrets to face Beheaded while fighting thanks to earth shifting. Going underground is the key here.


2) How does the Magnet grenade act actually? That said I don't think Han would let anything get close to him, and he could likely blast that with an arrow away. On another hand ... well... This is something I noticed too but before the final arc of Season 1 he actually learnt Flight. I can link it up in a jiffy, but any skills he read is definitely something he can use. Major issue on why he didn't use it probably is because he couldn't find the chance against people way higher than Tiers.

3) Physical endurance and doging would be the key here. Han would already be aware of the damage output and would know that he's screwed if he faces head on. That's why I was very focused on Han going underground. Healing is fair, however I don't believe he has the infinite capability of healing like Han has. Invulnerability sucks and would screw up Han but Observe and Foreboding Sense would alert him of that. Also 13 without the stacking effects, I think Risci would know it better.

4. Welp. Did not know that. And yeah that's pretty fatal ngl. Han would have to redo everything in that case. But Han can also just fully restore himself by hiding. That said resurrection may be impossible if he falls off.

5) No weapons to worry about here. Also earth manipulation tossing off the turrets out into the abyss. Those abilities hurt, if they hit Han. If Han is hiding underground or messing with those turrets or obstructing Headless' view it's likely that he wouldn't have to worry about the sheer range of the attacks.

6) Drain life is not a factor here, no need t oworry about that. I am curious on what other abilities are useless though. Han never uses Drain on anyone in this key.

7) I was assuming he only had several meters in range. How big is Beheaded's range again? Also as Dargoo said there are floating platforms all over the place.

8) I explained above why the explosions would be an issue. Han would be too far for the explosions and upon realizing attacks are failing he's likely not gonna use the same gambit.

9) I'm confused as to how tether is a weird point. What's the correlation? They wrapped around Beheaded and he could fight just fine?

10) It was mostly because the previous matches aren't really non-standard from modern settings and can likely look like regular settings. Also I'm more than sure Risci argues a lot for the legitimacy of BFR.


Also all of Beheaded's damage would indeed kill Han in a few shots, IF they hit. Han being already aware of Beheaded's focused playstyle would be focusing on a defensive underground playthrough. Being aware of the surroundings he'd likely realize the best way to take out someone who is noticeably not flying and laying a lot of traps and attacks, is to take cover in a spot where he can't be harmed. By going underground.

Then there's the whole issue with how the enivronment is both a double edged sword for both of them.

As long as Han can't be seen and isn't above ground, it's gonna be hard to track him and harm him.
 
True, but it isn't to such a great extent that Beheaded can't just

go over there

and shoot

or shoot from awhile away

like neither of them have flight or another notable mobility thing so the platforms really can't be terribly out of reach
 
@Dargoo

No one else notices the floating platforms ;; Why Final Destination mate.

But yeah the terrain being smaller means Han could likely tilt the entire map and make it high slope to further make it more difficult for Beheaded to use traps. Hiding underground would be the key here. And surprisingly shattering the ground would be bad.

Looking for the flight now

@double Dargoo

Go underground the main platform my friend
 
I use Final Destination for all the brackets finales. Usually it doesn't mess with the results but if it does here I can change it to something that is more fair to both of them.
 
1) "Han isn't going to let him do that". What uh. What's he doing to stop him? Also going underground on small platforms? Also the turrets follow enemies so they won't aim at Beheaded.

2) It creates a pretty wide aura of a few meters, drags in everything around it, and explodes. Also why would Han focus on this small projectile compared to every other projectile that's constantly being shot at him? And flight ain't on the profile. Sounds like a CRT job to me.

3) See point about underground before. And no, he doesn't, he can heal a bunch but not infinitely. That said if Beheaded hits Han, he won't get the chance to heal anyways, again, Beheaded can comfortably one-shot even with the reduced damage.

4) Hiding on these platforms with no cover floating about in the open air. And true, but Han has provided no such method of forcing Beheaded off whereas Beheaded has given an ability that would knock Han off.

5) Does Underground just mean something wildly different than in real life

6) Okay.

7) Beheaded basically falls into the range of his screen but likely has higher since... well. Normal bows go further. It just cannot be proven since the game never shows that distance. Just think the range of a real world bow.

8) Fair, but it is still a vastly wasted action on his part while Beheaded continues to berrate him with his own attacks.

9) Cut through them, dodge, etc. He's used to the strategy.

10) I know Ricsi does, which is why Han being here to begin with is extremely questionable.
 
1) I was going more on the assumption that they aim and shoot at the enemies. Time the earth shifting and you might have one firing at the user instead. By not let him do that I mean not let him cover the whole field with traps and turrets. I mean, that's the logical thing to do. Like I said before, use Gnome to change the terrain and make it hard for em to attack. The range of earth shifting is quite wide and covers the whole stage here.

2) Dw I left the comment on the thread CRT. And well the proof of him learning it. But anyway point taken on that... But on the first place?

> Why would Han still be above the surface when he knows the enemy is setting up too many things for him to handle? His first instinct to deal with enemies like that is go underground.

> The likelihood of that being Beheaded's first move is unlikely.

3) See my above post saying "Going undergrond on the main platform" and how I wasn't even talking about the small platforms. Heck, you'd be open practice for anything if you're letting your enemy form a massive turret army on the main stage. He'll know he's limiting his range that way and make himself more vulnerable. Key word IF he hits Han who's already going underground.

4) Ehem. Tilting the entire stage to the side. That's gonna be an issue that gets rid of many traps in fact.

5) Idk what you're asking tbh. I mean would you prefer undermainplatform or something? I thought I was being clear ngl.

7) Gotcha. That seems fair.

8) True. Gotta give it that. However he could technically attack from underground since the range of his bows is quite far, going from one block to another. So him sending an attack by peeking out at the edge of under the stage is a good method. After all Gnome can keep track of where Beheaded is at all times. Then again that's not the focus but it would basically mean that Han could attack that way since he can control how his arrows move.

9) Ahhh that makes more sense. Fair enough. Still could be problematic doing that on a shifting terrain stage.

10) Extremely questionable? A bit lost. But yeah Ill avoid the ID Barrier talk and leave it to him.


Gonna restate.

Even without flight, Han is definitely gonna go under the main platform and plan there. Being aware that they're in a moving stage and that his enemy is grounded, and usually only mages would be flying, he'll likely try the idea of getting his enemy off the stage. He'll likely tilt the entire stage which could seriously screw up a lot of traps.

That doesn't change anything about the platforms. But at that point, Han can basically bombard said platforms till they break and even with the existing AP gap, that's not good. The worst enemy for a metroidvania/rogue game is falling off the map..... And some more but that's the big issue here lol.


Also it's kinda funny how the main finalists use arrows a lot and are very versatile.
 
1) Just earth manip? Hand of the King does that. Create walls and platforms and such. Beheaded has experience in countering.

2) Han really doesn't have much space underground, like that just isn't a thing he can reliably do before Beheaded says **** it and begins nuking the ground. And true, it likely wouldn't be his first move, he's got all kinds of other neat toys. But that said, if he notices Han hanging near edges, it is perfectly viable.

3) See my comment about Beheaded having the AP to just destroy the platforms.

4) They stick to the ground. Hence why some can stick to walls.

5) Yes, you're being clear about a guy immediately going underground when there just isn't much space underground.

8) Underground stuff has been regarded already so not much else to say on this point.

10) I mean it is questionable to enter a character knowingly with BFR to a haxless bracket.

True, but again, there's only so long before Beheaded decides to break the ground of the platform Han is on. Planning for any amount of time is inadvisable at best.
 
1) Hand of the King? That's new. What does that do? Temporary walls and platforms? Earthly too? Can't find it on his profile but it seems interesting.

2) True, however it's still also the main space to fight on. Destroying it would be inadvisable to do even with the existence of small platforms. The moment Han realizes what's happening, the aim is going to be to take out the floating platforms and soon it becomes a race of who can stand on the last surviving ground. It's good that Beheaded can make platforms and walls but Han's earth manipulation can allow him to reform and make the environment suitable for him.

3) True. Bombardment of where Han is hiding. But what happens if the platform is tilted.

4) Like it actually happens in game? That said Han can likely just send off that bit of earth and let them fall off.

5) Considering he knows that the other guy will bombard him with attacks and turrets if he stay above ground?

8) Bombarding the only ground you're floating on in space is not really a good idea. Even then it would be more problematic for Headless than Han.

10) Ahhhh gotcha, that makes more sense.


Except Han would be likely just underground and the same applies for Headless. It's more problematic for him too since Earth manipulation covers a long range.

>Class in a bit gtg!
 
1) It's a boss that has similar Earth Manip. He shifts around his boss fight arena.

2) Fair but before Han thinks of that he's getting attacked by eight different sources of AP 13x stronger than he is.

3) Beheaded attacks a tilted platform.

4) Yeah. You can put stuff like wolf traps and shit to walls since certain enemies cling to those surfaces. They also aren't moved by effects that otherwise move you, the player, and other enemies.

5) This point has become awfully muddled. The point is, A. if he doesn't immediately go underground he's eating a lot of sources of damage far higher than he is capable of withstanding, all at once, and B. Beheaded can attack the limited underground space and continue his assault.

8) As has been said, other platforms. Shifting to another platform isn't hard.

True, and I'm not doubting the usefulness, I am merely doubting the usefulness to the point that it allows him to overcome immmensely higher AP, resurrection, tons more attacks, etc etc. Underground seems to be the main argument here and, while it does negatively affect Beheaded, it isn't enough to overcome the gap.
 
Couldn't Gnome serve as a spare body for The Beheaded if it manages to kill her?
 
Possibly? If it is a body then yeah, I'm not familiar with Gnome and what it is.
 
Gonna get a bit busy alas, but leaving a few points.

1) Thankies, watched a little of the boss fight. I can't say this is the same as Han who can likely collapse the whole floor and drop Beheaded. He seems to be more using spikes as an attack and the terrain damage doesn't last except for two gaps on the edge of the map.

2) If he's not underground.

3) From where? From the floating platforms that goes down due to earth manip or bombardment of arrows? Likely more the latter.

4) Gotcha. But the issue is is that the wall would itself fly off. Think of it as bubble gum. Sure we can't get rid of bubble gum stuck on a wall. But if you take out said piece of wall and send it flying, that bubble gum is gone. Same for the traps here.

5) But he will go underground. He always goes underground the moment he realizes the enemy has stronger stats or is threatening. In this case Observe already warns him. Foreboding sense already warns him. In the entirety of Season 1 the moment he unlocked Gnome he began taking cover underground against most enemies to prep and counter. At the same time while Beheaded is doing that, Han can also fight back by bombarding him from angles or moving the entire piece of land against the platforms to crush said platforms.

8) Yup. Unless the entire stage is moving to crush you. If those platforms are as small as the ones in Final Destination in brawl, it's gonna be crushing.


Funnily enough he has overcome higher AP through this. That said I'm also arguing without any of the statistic buffs. Resurrection becomes irrelevant when you fall off the stage. There are existing platforms here but it's still an issue, since if Han can collapse entire blocks pretty quickly earlier on, there's really nothing stopping him from immediately flipping the stage.

It's not really more like taking cover underground and bombarding the enemy is an issue. If that's all Han can do he would lose. But more like using the literal stage to knock Beheaded off the stage, destroying existing floating platforms. It also becomes more dangerous the more he damages the main platform since he's essentially damaging the only thing that's keeping him afloat.


Gnome is a spirit so that's not applicable. Also she can also just lend Jee-Han her power.
 
1) No problem, sorry for the misconception. And while it may not be as versatile as Han's, it does give Beheaded some amount of experience in dealing with what Han can do.

2) I feel like this point is given a bit more usefulness than it actually has.

3) From anywhere, I suppose? It isn't as if Han opens up with Earth manip. Beheaded is more than likely going to deal constant damage to his forcefields and one-shot long before Han realizes that is an effective strategy.

4) Again, see point three. Earth Manip is being a bit overestimated when it's far more likely just raw damage from Beheaded will overwhelm Han. He might dig underground to save a moment but Beheaded can quite literally just destroy the ground.

5) But the underground available is limited. Beheaded moving to another platform and nuking the platform Han has retreated to is a viable strategy.

8) Uh. Okay.

The only thing stopping him is it being seemingly ooc to do for no reason and he has no reason to open with it, whereas Beheaded has every reason to instantly open up with tons of attacks.

also Dargoo if the fate of the match depends on this being a floating arena and it is gonna be debated this much we may wish to consider changing the arena
 
Oh yeah, I'm definitely going with Beheaded here. At this point, he's essentially a much better Han tbh. With more AP.

Though can't Gnome just break the floor beneath him so he'll fall to his loss
 
Beheaded - 4 (Bambu, Pixel, Litentric, Edward)

@Bambu Any particular location you have in mind that would make it fair for both fighters?
 
Beheaded - 6 (Bambu, Pixel, Litentric, Edward, Christian, Inverted)
 
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