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That was a lot more concise than my wall of text
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Hermiome Granger vs Jones 4 - 4
- Thread starter ApiesDeathbyLazors
- Start date
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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I'm actually gonna make my next match take place in some kinda giant sphincter. Thanks for the idea Crimson!
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ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
I don't have enough kudos to give to that. I'm still laughing harder than I've laughed in months.
Yes, I'm immature. Who cares
(still though, change the location of the battle otherwise this battle becomes irrelevent for reasons)
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I'm not trying to be intentionally annoying, but TBH I'd forgotten that Hermione actually sucks at something, magically. >_> Regardless, my second point still stands about the match being irrelevant due to the rules imposed by the location.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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To be prefectly honest, it's been years since I read Harry Potter and had completely forgotten. Is that good or should I put some actual effort into finding a new location?
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Tbh that should be good.
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I'd like to respond to the response to my comment.
There is nothing to think outside the box here. Hermione doesn't need to be imaginative. If you are in a fight and hurting your opponent isn't working and the opponent is coming for you, it is basic instinct to incapacitate them.
There is nothing to think outside the box here. Hermione doesn't need to be imaginative. If you are in a fight and hurting your opponent isn't working and the opponent is coming for you, it is basic instinct to incapacitate them.
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While that is true, the spells that would work against Jones would be, in no particular order, Levicorpus, Petrificus Totalus and Evanesco. With the exception of Petrificus Totalus, these are not fighting spells. Hermione would actually probably open with a Harry Potter version of an incap spell, i.e. Stupufy, or Expelliarmus, which would have no impact on Jones. Unless Jones has a weapon, but she can take on Hermione bare-handed easily. Besides, if Expelliarmus worked, then Hemione would keep using similar spells, not realising that they won't work, because she tasted earlier sucess.
So, her incap spells won't work, she won't dial down to spells that aren't even useful for regular combat. Her combat training, what little of it she had with Dumbledore's Army, will have taught her to escalate the damage output, go to spells like Bombardia Maxima to try and overcome Jones' resistance.
The only spell that she would comfortably use in combat that could stop Jones is Petrificus Totalus. What are the chances that she is going to pick the one spell that would stop Jones, with the host of other incap spells at her disposal, none of which will work against Jones?
So, her incap spells won't work, she won't dial down to spells that aren't even useful for regular combat. Her combat training, what little of it she had with Dumbledore's Army, will have taught her to escalate the damage output, go to spells like Bombardia Maxima to try and overcome Jones' resistance.
The only spell that she would comfortably use in combat that could stop Jones is Petrificus Totalus. What are the chances that she is going to pick the one spell that would stop Jones, with the host of other incap spells at her disposal, none of which will work against Jones?
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She's used PT numerous times throughout HP, so it wouldn't be unheard of that she'd use it.
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False. She uses it twice. Once to stop Neville Longbottom in The Philosphers Stone, and once during a skirmish in a cafe against Antonin Dolohov in The Deathly Hallows. It is far from her spell of choice during a combat situation.
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Wait, you are arguing that she won't think to use a certain spell in a fight and then state that 50% of the times we know for sure she uses it happened in a fight. Not only that, but the fight is very short (no more than 3 spells from anyone, from memory). So we have a short fight and we know she casts the specific incap spell you are saying won't occur to her to use in a fight? It's not even like she was trying to avoid harming them, so the whole "she only uses incap against people she is trying not to hurt" is wrong too.
On top of all that, we don't actually know what her spell of choice is in a combat situation. She's opened with the standard Stupefy, but she's also opened with Glisseo, which is used to turn a flight of stairs into a slide. Both of those are just in the battle of Hogwarts. If thinking "I'll make those stairs into a slide" doesn't count as inventive combat then I don't know what does, especially since she makes it work.
On top of all that, we don't actually know what her spell of choice is in a combat situation. She's opened with the standard Stupefy, but she's also opened with Glisseo, which is used to turn a flight of stairs into a slide. Both of those are just in the battle of Hogwarts. If thinking "I'll make those stairs into a slide" doesn't count as inventive combat then I don't know what does, especially since she makes it work.
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1. The point of that was to say that Hermione has only used Petrificus Totalus twice, despite taking part in multiple duels and battles during the series. Yes, one of those was mid-battle, but see below.
2. Yes, she only uses actual incap agains those she doesn't want to hurt. Neville, no surprises, but with Antonin, she needed to wipe their memories afterwards, which requires them to be cognitive. Petrificus Totalus was one of the only charms that did incap'd them, but kept them cognitive. Also, there were Muggles around, and she didn't want to throw a powerful charm and risk missing and hitting one of them.
3. No, it won't occur to her. It was a very specific occasion which required her use of that charm.
4. She did not open with Glisseo. That spell was used after she realised that she was loosing the skirmish. She cast it as an escape, which is how it was taught in class...
2. Yes, she only uses actual incap agains those she doesn't want to hurt. Neville, no surprises, but with Antonin, she needed to wipe their memories afterwards, which requires them to be cognitive. Petrificus Totalus was one of the only charms that did incap'd them, but kept them cognitive. Also, there were Muggles around, and she didn't want to throw a powerful charm and risk missing and hitting one of them.
3. No, it won't occur to her. It was a very specific occasion which required her use of that charm.
4. She did not open with Glisseo. That spell was used after she realised that she was loosing the skirmish. She cast it as an escape, which is how it was taught in class...
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1. My point is we only know of two occasions where she definitively does use it. There are other fights where we have no idea what spells she uses. I can only think of one occasion where she uses Expelliarmus, but I'm not going to argue that it won't occur to her to use it under any other circumstances.
2. She wipes the memories of both the death eaters and the waitress; only Antonin was hit by an Petrificus Totalus, the other two were hit with Stupefy. There was a wall behind Antonin, the window was behind her, and Harry had already been slinging Stupefy in that direction, so she's not trying to avoid hitting Muggles. Rennervate will bring someone back to consciousness after being hit with Stupefy. There is no reason you can give for her to use Petrificus Totalus during the fight that wouldn't allow her to have used Stupefy instead.
3. You don't believe it will occur to her, and you justify this based on your incorrect assumption made in 2.
4. Which (according to google, since I haven't got the book available) is the first spell she casts, so she does open with it. Meaning the claim that she will to go straight for the damage spells and then escalate unthinkingly is wrong.
5. Jones is not carrying a wand, so Hermione is likely to try for an incap simply because she thinks she is up against a Muggle. It is almost certainly out of character for Hermione to try and hurt someone when she doesn't think she is in direct danger.
2. She wipes the memories of both the death eaters and the waitress; only Antonin was hit by an Petrificus Totalus, the other two were hit with Stupefy. There was a wall behind Antonin, the window was behind her, and Harry had already been slinging Stupefy in that direction, so she's not trying to avoid hitting Muggles. Rennervate will bring someone back to consciousness after being hit with Stupefy. There is no reason you can give for her to use Petrificus Totalus during the fight that wouldn't allow her to have used Stupefy instead.
3. You don't believe it will occur to her, and you justify this based on your incorrect assumption made in 2.
4. Which (according to google, since I haven't got the book available) is the first spell she casts, so she does open with it. Meaning the claim that she will to go straight for the damage spells and then escalate unthinkingly is wrong.
5. Jones is not carrying a wand, so Hermione is likely to try for an incap simply because she thinks she is up against a Muggle. It is almost certainly out of character for Hermione to try and hurt someone when she doesn't think she is in direct danger.
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1. Most often, we have a pretty good idea, as she only develops nonverbal spell techniques late in the 6th book. She also uses Expilliarmus three times, once at the end of her second year, once against Snape in the Shreiking Shack, and once against Mundungus Fletcher in 12 Grimmuald Place
2. I'll give you that.
3. I base that based on every other battle that she fights, she does not go for that spell. And this can be proven as she has faced enemies inpervious to her magics before (trolls, giants, dragons) . And she never uses that spell, despite knowing it every time.
4. She goes with Glisseo as she is immediately faced with two Death Eaters, and uses it to escape the two. The spell she actually uses against the Death Eaters is Duro
5. So, it's out of character for Hemione to hurt someone when she doesn't think she is in direct danger, but it is in character for her to immediately paralyse them? Remember, with Jones' speed, she is going to close the gap between them in a few seconds. She is going to have to use an incap spell immediately, she doesn't have time for trial and error
2. I'll give you that.
3. I base that based on every other battle that she fights, she does not go for that spell. And this can be proven as she has faced enemies inpervious to her magics before (trolls, giants, dragons) . And she never uses that spell, despite knowing it every time.
4. She goes with Glisseo as she is immediately faced with two Death Eaters, and uses it to escape the two. The spell she actually uses against the Death Eaters is Duro
5. So, it's out of character for Hemione to hurt someone when she doesn't think she is in direct danger, but it is in character for her to immediately paralyse them? Remember, with Jones' speed, she is going to close the gap between them in a few seconds. She is going to have to use an incap spell immediately, she doesn't have time for trial and error
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1. Fair enough, I didn't remember all the times she uses Expelliarmus, although you'll note that one is practice and the other two are surprise attacks, so we haven't seen her use it in a fight per se.
2. Thank you.
3. She's faced enemies knowing they are impervious to her magics, so she doesn't try magic to stop them. She has not faced Muggles, and she doesn't know Jones will shrug off most of her arsenal, so she's not thinking the same way (see 5).
4. Ok, Glisseo isn't used to harm the Death Eaters, but Duro is, and the description of that one isn't any more combat oriented than Glisseo.
5. Hermione sees Jones, an apparent Muggle, run at her. SBA means she knows Jones is trying to hurt her, but Hermione won't see her as any more dangerous than a Muggle. So, she doesn't think she's in a lot of danger, is trying to prevent Jones from hurting her, and likely trying to do so without hurting the oncoming "Muggle". Petrificus Totalus achieves both goals immediately, with the apparent (to Hermione) advantage that she can't overdo it and accidently hurt her. SBA means Hermione is willing to harm or kill, but it doesn't make it her first instinct.
2. Thank you.
3. She's faced enemies knowing they are impervious to her magics, so she doesn't try magic to stop them. She has not faced Muggles, and she doesn't know Jones will shrug off most of her arsenal, so she's not thinking the same way (see 5).
4. Ok, Glisseo isn't used to harm the Death Eaters, but Duro is, and the description of that one isn't any more combat oriented than Glisseo.
5. Hermione sees Jones, an apparent Muggle, run at her. SBA means she knows Jones is trying to hurt her, but Hermione won't see her as any more dangerous than a Muggle. So, she doesn't think she's in a lot of danger, is trying to prevent Jones from hurting her, and likely trying to do so without hurting the oncoming "Muggle". Petrificus Totalus achieves both goals immediately, with the apparent (to Hermione) advantage that she can't overdo it and accidently hurt her. SBA means Hermione is willing to harm or kill, but it doesn't make it her first instinct.
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Just to be a stickler on point 5, Sabriae, but Jones would be moving at Hermione much, much faster than a standard Muggle.
...If anything, I feel like that'd make someone like Hermione that much more likely to use PT. Something's moving really fast? Better stop its movements entirely.
...If anything, I feel like that'd make someone like Hermione that much more likely to use PT. Something's moving really fast? Better stop its movements entirely.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Faux-Latin Bump
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Why in the hecking heck would Hermione think that Jones was a Muggle? Wizards and witches don't give off an aura, just because she isn't holding a wand doesn't mean that she doesn't have one. Besides, Hogwarts Castle, where the battle is, has a Muggle-Repelling Charm on it. As Jones is here, and ready to fight, it's obvious to Hermione that Jones is not a Muggle.
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In her mind, she could just use Protego to stop Jones. That spell has stopped practically everythingA Stoned Orc said:
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Since when has Hermione been able to sense auras without a spell? When would a witch try running at someone at the start of a fight rather than pull out their wand? Why wait until Jones is close to use Protego when she can immobilise her from much further away?
If it takes place anywhere without the Muggle-Repelling Charm then Hermiones' first thought will be that Jones is an aggressive Muggle, and she will respond accordingly. So the location is changing the match by giving one character information, even if it is misleading. For that matter, wouldn't the Muggle-Repelling Charm keep Jones away from Hogwarts? She doesn't resist magic or mind manip and she isn't a witch. And doesn't Stupefy count as a mind manip? It only causes physical harm when overdone or when multiple stunners hit the same person; the actual purpose is just to make people unconscious. Which would not require any sort of physical damage be done.
If it takes place anywhere without the Muggle-Repelling Charm then Hermiones' first thought will be that Jones is an aggressive Muggle, and she will respond accordingly. So the location is changing the match by giving one character information, even if it is misleading. For that matter, wouldn't the Muggle-Repelling Charm keep Jones away from Hogwarts? She doesn't resist magic or mind manip and she isn't a witch. And doesn't Stupefy count as a mind manip? It only causes physical harm when overdone or when multiple stunners hit the same person; the actual purpose is just to make people unconscious. Which would not require any sort of physical damage be done.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Uh, is it still 3-3 or did I miss any new votes?
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Yeah, Hemione has Sabriae, AK and Orc, Jones has me, Dargoo, and Bambu. We are just debating till the FRA squad arrives, and picks a team!
Also, I never mentioned that wizards/witches gave off an aura. That was the sum total of my last point. Wizards/witches attack without wands a couple of times in the HP verse, see Death Eaters. And, me saying that Hemione would Protego Jones close was based on the assumption that Hermione would go for Stupufy at long range, and would throw up a shield at close range, once Jones has sped up to her.
The Muggle-Repelling Charm would have no impact on Jones, as she is not a Muggle. All manner of creatures, from goblins to Dragons to Snatchers have been completely unaffected by the charm. Although, to be fair, Hermione wouldn't default to thinking that Jones is a full witch immediately, to be fair. She would probably assume that the spell wasn't affecting her outside of the grounds. Regardless, an aggressive Muggle would warrent the same aggressive action as an aggressive wizard/witch. Especially as she is holding a weapon, then Hermione acts out of self-preservation, as she is fully aware of the damage sharp, pointy objects can do.
Stupufy isn't Mind Manipulation. When Harry cast it once during the Night of Nine Harrys, it carried enough force with a single charm to knock an experianced wizard off his broom. It also halted a flying Death Eater's momentum during the Battle of Hogwarts (these guys were not stopped by brick walls), knocked Malfoy off his feet... et cetera. I think you are thinking of Expilliamus, which disarms normally with a single spell, but multiple spells, such as when the Three Musketeers cast it on Snape in the Shrieking Shack, knock an opponent backwards, causing physical damage.
Also, I never mentioned that wizards/witches gave off an aura. That was the sum total of my last point. Wizards/witches attack without wands a couple of times in the HP verse, see Death Eaters. And, me saying that Hemione would Protego Jones close was based on the assumption that Hermione would go for Stupufy at long range, and would throw up a shield at close range, once Jones has sped up to her.
The Muggle-Repelling Charm would have no impact on Jones, as she is not a Muggle. All manner of creatures, from goblins to Dragons to Snatchers have been completely unaffected by the charm. Although, to be fair, Hermione wouldn't default to thinking that Jones is a full witch immediately, to be fair. She would probably assume that the spell wasn't affecting her outside of the grounds. Regardless, an aggressive Muggle would warrent the same aggressive action as an aggressive wizard/witch. Especially as she is holding a weapon, then Hermione acts out of self-preservation, as she is fully aware of the damage sharp, pointy objects can do.
Stupufy isn't Mind Manipulation. When Harry cast it once during the Night of Nine Harrys, it carried enough force with a single charm to knock an experianced wizard off his broom. It also halted a flying Death Eater's momentum during the Battle of Hogwarts (these guys were not stopped by brick walls), knocked Malfoy off his feet... et cetera. I think you are thinking of Expilliamus, which disarms normally with a single spell, but multiple spells, such as when the Three Musketeers cast it on Snape in the Shrieking Shack, knock an opponent backwards, causing physical damage.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Well don't let me stop you, ya crazy kids.
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Did someone call for the fra squad?
Jones fra. I wish I noticed this earlier, seemed like fun debating.
Jones fra. I wish I noticed this earlier, seemed like fun debating.
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Feel free to join in, we're still debating 
The aura point is that Hermione won't detect an aura from Jones either, so she's not figuring out that Jones is or isn't a witch by her aura, or lack thereof.
Is Jones holding a weapon? She doesn't have one in her standard equipment, and there isn't one specified in the battle set up. It's not like she needs one to kill a person.
If Stupefy does apply enough force to stop a flying Death Eater then fair enough, it doesn't sound like mind manipulation. That said, Jones is likely to be thrown back with that much power, even if it isn't going to do anything else.
The aura point is that Hermione won't detect an aura from Jones either, so she's not figuring out that Jones is or isn't a witch by her aura, or lack thereof.
Is Jones holding a weapon? She doesn't have one in her standard equipment, and there isn't one specified in the battle set up. It's not like she needs one to kill a person.
If Stupefy does apply enough force to stop a flying Death Eater then fair enough, it doesn't sound like mind manipulation. That said, Jones is likely to be thrown back with that much power, even if it isn't going to do anything else.
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@Crimson if Stupefy won't work, she would go for other incapacitation spell like Petrificus Totalus, which paralyzes you on the spot.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Does it paralyze by some kinda magic force holding you or does it work by some biological component? Cause Jones has no biological components.
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No, it literally just paralyzes you. Almost like magic. OvO
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Sure why not.
Granger - 3
Jones - 4
Granger - 3
Jones - 4
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We have been debating about how quickly she would go for an incap spell such as that. In fact, Petrificus Totalus has been at the centre of discussion.Theglassman12 said:
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Also, SBA requires Hemione to incap Jones for a full day. Does Petrificus Totalus wear off after a few hours?
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So, Jones getting affected by the spell, wouldn't that make Hermione think that it is actually doing something? If Jones is getting thrown back by the force of the spell, she'll assume that the spell is actually affecting her, and she just is resiliant. Wouldn't that prevent her from using an incap?Sabriae said:
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The first time yes, she'll probably think it's working, but after a couple with no sign of Jones staying down she'll figure out that something else needs to be done. That said, it would technically mean Jones would never be able to close to melee, since Hermione can knock her back with Stupefy virtually indefinitely.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Actually, Jones is extremely heavy, so much so that she would have sunk a row boat if she had tried to get in it. Give me a bit and I'll try to find the chapter.Sabriae said:
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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No wait, I was slightly off. It was a dock, not a boat.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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weekly group bump
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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3 day group bump
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