- 17,731
- 17,058
To play Devil's Advocate, if it's activated power null, you sorta need to be though.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Heaven Ascension DIO Speed CRT
- Thread starter VegetaFan756
- Start date
- Status
- 1,690
- 1,191
I would think reacting to an infinite speed ability would grant infinite speed in reactions. Im not saying Dio is infinite in combat/travel speed bc of it. We clearly see Rtz activate then Dio nulls it, then to confirm it was Rtz giorno wonders why Requim didn’t work.
- 12,428
- 4,539
You'd need to if said ability activates from itself at infinite speed. Also, I already explained what would've happen if DIO wasn't fast enough.
- 4,466
- 378
because it's reaction, Giorno literally did RtZ before than power null, if you are fast enough you could beat someone that have a Power Null. But Dio literally reacted in time.
- 4,466
- 378
should be also attack speed honestly
- 29,685
- 24,604
Why couldn't he just power null it after it activated?
- 4,466
- 378
because he couldn't, if he wasn't fast enough then his action would be reverted and he couldn't neither do Power Null.
- 12,428
- 4,539
Because:
1) GER immediately nulls the actions, so DIO punching Giorno would've already be reverted.
2) You can't react to and null an infinite speed ability which already power nulls you without a similar speed.
- 29,685
- 24,604
You can if your power null trumps their power null.
- 4,466
- 378
i will make you a image examples for that.
- 4,466
- 378
So basically, if HA Dio wann't infinite with RO, he wouldn't react to rtz.
why?
basically, if HA Dio wasn't Infinite, RTZ would just revert his action, since his hax activation would be very slow.
an example is some faster characther speed blitzing a characther that was going to do an ability.
like goku trying to teleport, but gets blitzed.
so basically, if goku was fast enough he could teleport.
i maded a example, if HA Dio wasn't fast enough to keep up with ger:
(sorry for some cringe, but it isn't a joke or a troll. So don't not notice certain things in the video)
why?
basically, if HA Dio wasn't Infinite, RTZ would just revert his action, since his hax activation would be very slow.
an example is some faster characther speed blitzing a characther that was going to do an ability.
like goku trying to teleport, but gets blitzed.
so basically, if goku was fast enough he could teleport.
i maded a example, if HA Dio wasn't fast enough to keep up with ger:
(sorry for some cringe, but it isn't a joke or a troll. So don't not notice certain things in the video)
- 12,428
- 4,539
It doesen't work like that. TWOH punches GER, with the latter assuming RtZ would work, as you can clearly see from the effects on their punches. Then DIO says "lmao no" and nulls it, with GER having a shocked/surprised face at the moment where it got RtZ nulled. If it was like you've described, RtZ wouldn't even have started, which contradicts this + Giorno saying the never reach the reality quote + the whole "Why Requiem didn't work" quote.
To show this contradiction even more, if DIO decided to power null at the moment of the punch clash but, wasn't fast enough, he couldn't even use the power null as RtZ would've already reverted him trying to punch Giorno.
- 29,685
- 24,604
I don't see how. I can't think of a good reason why DIO couldn't null it after it activated.
He wouldn't have been reverted if he nulled it though.
- 12,428
- 4,539
Because RtZ would've blitzed him and nulled him before he could do anything.
You can clearly see Giorno using RtZ when he said "You'll never reach the Truth", implying RtZ being already activated, yet DIO nulls it when it got that "shock" between the 2 fists. If DIO couldn't have been nulled, GER wouldn't have been so sure of winning until the shock between their fist.
- 4,466
- 378
Maybe because he isn't fast enough for activing it in time?
maybe you should read my message.
- 12,178
- 12,173
Whats so hard to comprehend HA Dio needed to be fast enough to react to something that is infinite in speed (the rtz), to claim otherwise goes against whats shown
- 696
- 139
It still Infinite,if not then RTZ already reverse everything
- 4,466
- 378
- 15,419
- 5,012
No, this thread aims to remove the Infinite speed, not add it. And it needs more help to it than what one would assume.
- 4,466
- 378
Still noobody agrued to the counter arguments of the removal..
- 168
- 26
I agree with the original idea of removing the "infinite" speed off-of TWOH.
That being said, In Giorno's page his speed is listed as "Massively FTL, likely higher physically". So all I can see happening is TWOH being knocked from Infinite to MFTL+.
I can also understand the argument towards TWOH, as you can say this stand-stats of GER, stating that he is incomparable to any other stand, meanwhile MiH and Notorious BiG only had "∞" (MiH can have infinite speed aswell, but only under specific conditions, VS GER's constant inf. speed stat ranking.)
Then again, I personally dont see an issue going from Infinite -> MFTL+ for TWoH, seeing how 99% of battles have speed equalized.
That being said, In Giorno's page his speed is listed as "Massively FTL, likely higher physically". So all I can see happening is TWOH being knocked from Infinite to MFTL+.
I can also understand the argument towards TWOH, as you can say this stand-stats of GER, stating that he is incomparable to any other stand, meanwhile MiH and Notorious BiG only had "∞" (MiH can have infinite speed aswell, but only under specific conditions, VS GER's constant inf. speed stat ranking.)
Then again, I personally dont see an issue going from Infinite -> MFTL+ for TWoH, seeing how 99% of battles have speed equalized.
- 1,690
- 1,191
^ Can we please just stop saying arguments that makes no sense. You can’t power null rtz after it happens. Every action would be reverted. Hence you need infinite speed to counter it.
I’m honestly confused on how you even think that’s a possibility. It’s like your just ignoring the concept of GER as a whole.
- 15,419
- 5,012
You can power null it because the action of doing so overpowers the ability to revert it. Reality Overwrite>Return to Zero. Giorno got GER's ability started but it couldn't go on because it got nulled.
The writers of that game sure did by making an ability more powerful than GER's, but who cares. You can't apply how GER's ability works against targets with no defense against it, against someone who can null it then it doesn't matter.
- 1,690
- 1,191
I don’t think you understand how GER works. If what your saying happened Ger would use RTZ blitz dio it would WORK then Dio would Null it. What Dio did was null it while it was happening. That’s why giorno said RTZ didn’t even WORK.
Dio would have to have infinite speed to revert RTZ while it was happening. Or else he would’ve got reset THEN NULL IT. And it’s not a passive ability Dio had to react to RTZ to be able to null it.
- 15,419
- 5,012
Anything can be power nulled with enough potency for it, logically making following effects and previous ones that were already into motion not work anymore and make them all just go home, because they're nullified. Dogmatically saying that GER has to work doesn't do anything, there's no "concept of GER as a whole" or people not undertanding how it works, bevieving those things only stucks the process of figuring out what makes the most sense.
Nor is this ability with Infinite attack speed something that lasts seconds, it kicks in at Infinite speed, the rest isn't, it kicked in against Heaven DIO and after it, DIO nulled it. Simple as that.
Nor is this ability with Infinite attack speed something that lasts seconds, it kicks in at Infinite speed, the rest isn't, it kicked in against Heaven DIO and after it, DIO nulled it. Simple as that.
- 14,113
- 11,071
That's, actually straight up not how it works in the slightest. That's objectively false and not subject to debate or interpretation, that's straight up not how it functions, meaning, literal nonargument, its simply not true. At the very least DIO using it afterwards isn't an option, its simply impossible to have played out that way based on everything we know about both abilities, straight impossibility, not how it works on either fronts.
I mean, no, it ain't as simple as that, it's ******* wrong Efi. It's tantamount to calling an apple an orange, and saying that because that orange is an orange, that's how it is, when it's obviously not a ******* orange, it's an apple.
There's arguments against this, a few even, and I wouldn't mind being cautious in regards to this type of scaling, like I'm not totally against it, but that argument ain't one of em chief
- 4,466
- 378
Ok fast explanation for dudes that don't even got the idea that the removal vote dosen't actually exist.
Ger return to the zero point every action, not only in a physical sense but also for abilities etc...
In the fight, ger tried to rtz HA Dio punch, since RO isn't a passive it needed an activation, this activation is infinite because it blitzed on something that is infinite.
"but manu couldn't it just be he actived it?"
No, indeed rtz was activing, the latter was activating at infinite speed (because as it says in the pages it is infinite) and Dio RO activation was still fast enough to counter another ability that went to Infinite Speed
now why removal votes are wrong?
they says RO > RTZ in hax, but there isn't a reasoning aside making it illogical on many levels and also implying "physical random punch > strongest hax in canon".
therefore, it shouldn't be neither an argument in first place and nor an option
Ger return to the zero point every action, not only in a physical sense but also for abilities etc...
In the fight, ger tried to rtz HA Dio punch, since RO isn't a passive it needed an activation, this activation is infinite because it blitzed on something that is infinite.
"but manu couldn't it just be he actived it?"
No, indeed rtz was activing, the latter was activating at infinite speed (because as it says in the pages it is infinite) and Dio RO activation was still fast enough to counter another ability that went to Infinite Speed
now why removal votes are wrong?
they says RO > RTZ in hax, but there isn't a reasoning aside making it illogical on many levels and also implying "physical random punch > strongest hax in canon".
therefore, it shouldn't be neither an argument in first place and nor an option
- 165,008
- 71,763
Okay. Can you explain what you think should be done here and why?
- 12,428
- 4,539
Tbh, nothing. The whole proposal of removal was already countered from many and I dunno why it should be applied after being debunked several times on this thread.
- 696
- 139
Well basicly he Null the RTZ,its stated by Giorno
- 15,419
- 5,012
If a character can turn back time, starts its ability at infinite speed and its ability starts to kick in against someone, but then the ability gets reversed & nullified due to that someone's power null then that someone doesn't have Infinite speed. The ability had already started at Infinite speed, after that it was nullified, the person who did that was never affected due to having nullified the ability.
Replace turn back time to what GER does and you got what happened here.
Replace turn back time to what GER does and you got what happened here.
I disagree as much as you do. There's too much denial here next to what I said.
Your take on the matter.
- 14,113
- 11,071
I have no idea what you're saying but I gotta point out, again, your argument of "DIO nullified it after" doesn't hold up, that wouldn't be an option if GER actually got RTZ off in the first place, DIO would have been completely ******. That's not the ability works, not even within the confines of EOH does it truly function like that.
Your turn back time example doesn't even work, because if RTZ was time rewind or functionally similar, negating it after the time rewind began wouldn't be an option, because time would have already began rewinding and DIO doesn't exactly innately resist that. Of course I know you're not saying RTZ is time rewind, but the example ain't exactly the best there.
There's arguments that you could use Efi, but the argument you're sticking to ain't exactly the best, given it relies on both abilities functioning in a way neither actually do. Like pick another one, there's a handful of better options you could stick to.
Last edited:
- 168
- 26
Gotta say, chariot has it here. RtZ cannot be cancelled "after" it happens in the sense of Time-Erasure or Time Stop. A good comparison between Time-Erasure and RtZ I could repeat is this;
"Simpily, GER's ability is to set anything to the point of 0, removing the effect from the cause, which can be seen as the opposite of Diavolo's ability to remove the cause, but leave the effect."
RtZ Infinitely returns to zero. Here is the clip from EoH that shows GER activating it and nothing happening. Almost like he cancelled it before it began
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
