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Hajun (Masadaverse) VS Nyarlathotep (Cthulhu Mythos)
- Thread starter KingPin0422
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The context of "Immeasurable" when describing Hajun's Taikyoku means that infinity is too small of a number to describe it. Think of the difference between infinite speed and Immeasurable speed, here. Infinite speed let's you be go anywhere within an instant. Immeasurable speed let's you go anywhere and anywhe within an instant.
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It probably is.
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- #46
If four Hadou Gods with 90 Taikyoku could kill him, then he would stand absolutely no chance.
I mean, wasn't Tenma Yato VS Nyarlathotep agreed to be a stomp in the latter's favor?
I mean, wasn't Tenma Yato VS Nyarlathotep agreed to be a stomp in the latter's favor?
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True but i dont know much Hajun without tumor only the he was a beast too take down. Plus in his final fight with Habaki did he still have his tumor or not ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ipw7Osu9W4 i will also add this is you guys dont know what i mean.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ipw7Osu9W4 i will also add this is you guys dont know what i mean.
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So many questions anyhow.
Hajun in the canon fight was basically this : "Reinhard founds out about the Cystic existence and Marie reincarnates it, weakening Hajun but not to the awful degree like KKK, so he could fight back. He ended up killing Marie, Reinhard, Ren with Mercurius on death soon."
And in the final fight against Habaki (and the team) he had Tumor, but he first started using the other gods laws since he saw no fit to use his own against "trash". But hey they showed some good feats like Insects eating Shiori infinite possibilities (Basically infinite Gudou God Shiori's were being devored by those insects).
Anyhow @Tincan the Hajun you showed is Hajun with Tumor.
Hajun in the canon fight was basically this : "Reinhard founds out about the Cystic existence and Marie reincarnates it, weakening Hajun but not to the awful degree like KKK, so he could fight back. He ended up killing Marie, Reinhard, Ren with Mercurius on death soon."
And in the final fight against Habaki (and the team) he had Tumor, but he first started using the other gods laws since he saw no fit to use his own against "trash". But hey they showed some good feats like Insects eating Shiori infinite possibilities (Basically infinite Gudou God Shiori's were being devored by those insects).
Anyhow @Tincan the Hajun you showed is Hajun with Tumor.
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So even without (Tumor) Hajun is still a beast. Yeh i think we will never find a true opponent for Hajun seeing how in his own tier 1 he fodders others even without tumor he is just a beast too take down only because of plot he lost. The only way Hajun would lose would be High-1 or 0 characters but that would be unfair.
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10 Taikyoku = 1 degree of infinity above baseline 1-A, or so I've heard.
Given what Hajun's Taikyoku is like, he's probably uncountably infinite degrees of infinity above baseline 1-A.
But Nyarlathotep transcends the Great Old Ones just as they transcend 3-D humanity. For the record, this is a very similar transcendence that a High 1-A has, since the strongest Great Old Ones are 1-A.
I mean, yeah, "Hajun has too many weaknesses to be reliably placed at High 1-A" and all that, but Nyarlathotep could very easily be High 1-A himself if he were the only Outer God.
Given what Hajun's Taikyoku is like, he's probably uncountably infinite degrees of infinity above baseline 1-A.
But Nyarlathotep transcends the Great Old Ones just as they transcend 3-D humanity. For the record, this is a very similar transcendence that a High 1-A has, since the strongest Great Old Ones are 1-A.
I mean, yeah, "Hajun has too many weaknesses to be reliably placed at High 1-A" and all that, but Nyarlathotep could very easily be High 1-A himself if he were the only Outer God.
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You should completely avoid relating that with Outerversal/metaphysical aspects, those numbers are just there for one to see a how powerful they are. A diversity simply enough for you to grasp it, even if they are beyond all dimensional conceptions/mathematics/physics.TheHadouCyberspaceWitch said:
Although the difference in your precision, is easly grasped with mathematics, physics.
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@Prospect
it's been agreed that 1-A doesn't make you beyond math or physics by definition
that's why the definition got changed
See my argument above for a compelling argument for Nyar.
Indeterminacy would tell us that no matter how many infinities you are above someone else, you'll never be able to be equivalent to them if they're on a whole other plateau of existence entirely.
it's been agreed that 1-A doesn't make you beyond math or physics by definition
that's why the definition got changed
See my argument above for a compelling argument for Nyar.
Indeterminacy would tell us that no matter how many infinities you are above someone else, you'll never be able to be equivalent to them if they're on a whole other plateau of existence entirely.
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@Tincan
I'll be honest, it seems like you don't understand how either of these fighters work.
For Hajun, Masadaverse has a baseline 1-A object called the Throne, which encompasses all of existence.
With just 1 Taikyoku, the Throne is completely irrelevant. It is nothing more than a tool.
When comparing two Hadou Gods, a difference of 10 Taikyoku will turn it into a major stomp, as the higher Hadou God can easily kill the lower one with a simple gesture due to sheer spiritual weight.
Hajun has a Taikyoku value of "Immeasurable", which I have no idea what it really means other than that his Taikyoku is unquantifiably high.
As for Nyarlathotep... it's pretty confusing, but long story short: he is to the Great Old Ones what the Great Old Ones are to 3-D humanity. Basically, the strongest Great Old Ones are 1-A, and yet compared to Nyarlathotep they are like humans facing an entity who is completely beyond the confines of their world.
I'll be honest, it seems like you don't understand how either of these fighters work.
For Hajun, Masadaverse has a baseline 1-A object called the Throne, which encompasses all of existence.
With just 1 Taikyoku, the Throne is completely irrelevant. It is nothing more than a tool.
When comparing two Hadou Gods, a difference of 10 Taikyoku will turn it into a major stomp, as the higher Hadou God can easily kill the lower one with a simple gesture due to sheer spiritual weight.
Hajun has a Taikyoku value of "Immeasurable", which I have no idea what it really means other than that his Taikyoku is unquantifiably high.
As for Nyarlathotep... it's pretty confusing, but long story short: he is to the Great Old Ones what the Great Old Ones are to 3-D humanity. Basically, the strongest Great Old Ones are 1-A, and yet compared to Nyarlathotep they are like humans facing an entity who is completely beyond the confines of their world.
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A difference of 10 Taikyoku means the higher Taikyoku user is infinitely above the lower one and immune to nearly everything they could do. Hajun's being Immeasurable is due to it being described as "infinity, yet constantly rising even higher". He is beyond infinite degrees of infinity above the other Hadou Gods like the Tenma. Fighting him was said to be like "a man fighting God".
The difference between the Elder Gods and the Hadou Gods is that the Elder Gods are the types of 1-As that are just qualitatively superior to infinite dimensions, as undimensioned beings. The Throne encompasses all concepts, and the concept of existence, and that sort of thing.
The difference between the Elder Gods and the Hadou Gods is that the Elder Gods are the types of 1-As that are just qualitatively superior to infinite dimensions, as undimensioned beings. The Throne encompasses all concepts, and the concept of existence, and that sort of thing.
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@Hadou
Well, Nyarlathotep is qualitatively superior to the Elder Gods, as he is to them what they are to 3-D humanity.
Also, the Throne only encompasses dimensional space. The force known as Taikyoku, which Hadou Gods use, is in turn the source of the Throne along with the undimensioned space occupied by the Hadou Gods.
Well, Nyarlathotep is qualitatively superior to the Elder Gods, as he is to them what they are to 3-D humanity.
Also, the Throne only encompasses dimensional space. The force known as Taikyoku, which Hadou Gods use, is in turn the source of the Throne along with the undimensioned space occupied by the Hadou Gods.
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Everyone is assuming that infinitely rising levels of power makes one superior to beings like the Ultimate Gods, but that's just simply not the case. For instance, Hypnos (A mid tiered 1-A who was faaaaar above the Great Old Ones) who was also an Elder God (You guys mean the Outer Gods, not the Elders) was quite confident in his ability to conquer all of existence, as referenced here:
Our discourse was unholy, and always hideously ambitious-no god or daemon could have aspired to discoveries and conquest like those which we planned in whispers. I shiver as I speak of them, and dare not be explicit; though I will say that my friend once wrote on paper a wish which he dared not utter with his tongue, and which made me burn the paper and look affrightedly out of the window at the spangled night sky. I will hint-only hint- that he had designs which involved the rulership of the visible universe and more; designs whereby the earth and the stars would move at his command, and the destinies of all living things be his. I affirm-I swear-that I had no share in these extreme aspirations. Anything my friend may have said or written to the contrary must be erroneous, for I am no man of strength to risk the unmentionable spheres by which alone one might achieve success.
There was a night when winds from unknown spaces whirled us irresistibly into limitless vacua beyond all thought and entity. Perceptions of the most maddeningly untransmissible sort thronged upon us; perceptions of infinity which at the time convulsed us with joy, yet which are now partly lost to my memory and partly incapable of presentation to others. Viscous obstacles were clawed through in rapid succession, and at length I felt that we had been borne to realms of greater remoteness than any we had previously known.
My friend was vastly in advance as we plunged into this awesome ocean of virgin aether, and I could see the sinister exultation on his floating, luminous, too-youthful memory-face. Suddenly that face became dim and quickly disappeared, and in a brief space I found myself projected against an obstacle which I could not penetrate. It was like the others, yet incalculably denser; a sticky clammy mass, if such terms can be applied to analogous qualities in a non-material sphere.
When compared to Hypnos, the beings beyond the first gate were inconceivable and incomprehensible. He was so deathly afraid of them that he deemed never to go into Outerversal realms again. It eventually drew him in to limitless insanity, which implies that the things beyond the first gate were beyond all concepts to a level that cannot even be thought of, as his friend was unable to understand the things which were behind it, even when shown them at the end.
Compared to the beings beyond the first Gate, the beings beyond the Second Gate are immeasurably more infinite than those beyond the first, and the beings beyond the first are immeasurably more infinite than beings who can conquer all of existence, including infinite levels of Outerversal space. The Ultimate Gods transcend the basic gods beyond the Second Gate, and Nyar's true form is equal or relative to them, as even a weaker avatar of his was able to go directly up to the true Azathoth and hit him on the head in contempt.
That being said, I think that infinitely rising levels don't really compare to two beyond immeasurable, inaccessible (like the cardinal) realms stacked on top of one another like whole different plateaus, when basic Outerversal space already has infinite levels.
I'm not trying to spite Masadaverse here. There is no doubt that it's an insanely powerful verse, and I myself think that its mythos is rich and I don't mind its story at all, so...
Our discourse was unholy, and always hideously ambitious-no god or daemon could have aspired to discoveries and conquest like those which we planned in whispers. I shiver as I speak of them, and dare not be explicit; though I will say that my friend once wrote on paper a wish which he dared not utter with his tongue, and which made me burn the paper and look affrightedly out of the window at the spangled night sky. I will hint-only hint- that he had designs which involved the rulership of the visible universe and more; designs whereby the earth and the stars would move at his command, and the destinies of all living things be his. I affirm-I swear-that I had no share in these extreme aspirations. Anything my friend may have said or written to the contrary must be erroneous, for I am no man of strength to risk the unmentionable spheres by which alone one might achieve success.
There was a night when winds from unknown spaces whirled us irresistibly into limitless vacua beyond all thought and entity. Perceptions of the most maddeningly untransmissible sort thronged upon us; perceptions of infinity which at the time convulsed us with joy, yet which are now partly lost to my memory and partly incapable of presentation to others. Viscous obstacles were clawed through in rapid succession, and at length I felt that we had been borne to realms of greater remoteness than any we had previously known.
My friend was vastly in advance as we plunged into this awesome ocean of virgin aether, and I could see the sinister exultation on his floating, luminous, too-youthful memory-face. Suddenly that face became dim and quickly disappeared, and in a brief space I found myself projected against an obstacle which I could not penetrate. It was like the others, yet incalculably denser; a sticky clammy mass, if such terms can be applied to analogous qualities in a non-material sphere.
When compared to Hypnos, the beings beyond the first gate were inconceivable and incomprehensible. He was so deathly afraid of them that he deemed never to go into Outerversal realms again. It eventually drew him in to limitless insanity, which implies that the things beyond the first gate were beyond all concepts to a level that cannot even be thought of, as his friend was unable to understand the things which were behind it, even when shown them at the end.
Compared to the beings beyond the first Gate, the beings beyond the Second Gate are immeasurably more infinite than those beyond the first, and the beings beyond the first are immeasurably more infinite than beings who can conquer all of existence, including infinite levels of Outerversal space. The Ultimate Gods transcend the basic gods beyond the Second Gate, and Nyar's true form is equal or relative to them, as even a weaker avatar of his was able to go directly up to the true Azathoth and hit him on the head in contempt.
That being said, I think that infinitely rising levels don't really compare to two beyond immeasurable, inaccessible (like the cardinal) realms stacked on top of one another like whole different plateaus, when basic Outerversal space already has infinite levels.
I'm not trying to spite Masadaverse here. There is no doubt that it's an insanely powerful verse, and I myself think that its mythos is rich and I don't mind its story at all, so...
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Aeyu I'd just like to point out the size of your font.
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And stuffs
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Aeyu is a smart cookie.
And I agree with her.
And I agree with her.
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Question.
Is Hajun explicitly stated as having an infinite taikyoku value, or is it stated as an immeasurable taikyoku value because it is infinitely rising.
Regardless, I think Nyarla takes this. Nyarla is to the Great Old Ones what the Great Old Ones are to humanity, and being to a 1-A what a 1-A is to a normal person has been grounds for High 1-A before.
Essentially, if the only characters in the Cthulhu Mythos were humans, Great Old Ones, and Nyarlathotep (and Azzathoth on top), Nyarla would probably be listed as High 1-A.
Is Hajun explicitly stated as having an infinite taikyoku value, or is it stated as an immeasurable taikyoku value because it is infinitely rising.
Regardless, I think Nyarla takes this. Nyarla is to the Great Old Ones what the Great Old Ones are to humanity, and being to a 1-A what a 1-A is to a normal person has been grounds for High 1-A before.
Essentially, if the only characters in the Cthulhu Mythos were humans, Great Old Ones, and Nyarlathotep (and Azzathoth on top), Nyarla would probably be listed as High 1-A.
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Nyarlethotep for reasons above.
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Okay. Change my vote to Nya.
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It probably is.
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