Hagoromo and subjective reality

[RaveeCPN]

You know that "life" there is an expression for "make it real", right?

"And Yoton, light style power, founded upon physical energies that govern life can be used to instil life into that form."

This is clearly talking about putting life into/animating the physical body created by "Inton".

 

[GTsek]

"And Yoton, light style power, founded upon physical energies that govern life can be used to instil life into that form."

This is clearly talking about putting life into/animating the physical body created by "Inton".

? Did you ignore everything I said? all examples? I literally gave examples where "give life" means "make into reality". You shouldn't only read the entire series, but also learn not to get attached to a single santence and the way it is written, but take all the examples shown in the serie and all the explanations and come to a conclusion. By doing this, you come to the same conclusion as me: Yang makes Yin's fantasies come true, and all the examples I've cited: Izanagi, COAT, Gudoudama's effect and Kakashi's eye creation are some of the many effects resulting from this .

 

[RaveeCPN]

? Did you ignore everything I said? all examples? I literally gave examples where "give life" means "make into reality". You shouldn't only read the entire series, but also learn not to get attached to a single santence and the way it is written, but take all the examples shown in the serie and all the explanations and come to a conclusion. By doing this, you come to the same conclusion as me: Yang makes Yin's fantasies come true, and all the examples I've cited: Izanagi, COAT, Gudoudama's effect and Kakashi's eye creation are some of the many effects resulting from this .

The things you say, for example Naruto healing Kakashi (which Naruto says he didn't do out of nothing, he was helped by Kakashi's parts, etc.) gives Creation at most(and probably not). The scan you presented as evidence says that COAT created something and gave it life. Nothing more. This is clearly Creation and Life manipulation.

 

[GTsek]

Dude, I give up on you. You are literally ignoring the modus operandi of the technique. This is not classed as creation because it is JUST ONE OF the Onmyouton EFFECTS. Izanagi is a practical application of Onmyouton, it is not giving life to any form but making fantasy come true, just like all the examples I gave. IZANAGI IS ONMYOUTON, it is a practical application of it, they are THE SAME THING, this does not mean that Hagoromo has Izanagi, as it is an inferior jutsu created for those who cannot master Onmyouton, but it means that Izanagi's act of turning fantasy into reality is the practical representation of how Onmyouton works. Understand: The "giving life" to something, in Izanagi means "Make into reality", now you take the whole explanation of Onmyouton and come to the conclusion: Yang turns Yin's fantasies into reality, and Literally giving life (making being alive) to shapes is JUST ONE OF THE EFFECTS.

 

[RaveeCPN]

Okay, then let me give my final thoughts:

I agree that Hagoromo has Subjective Reality, but it's not because he created Bijuus or Naruto can heal Kakashi with an effect of COAT(which are arguments used in the OP), but rather because Izanagi is just an effect of COAT and COAT is superior to it.

Reality Warping part is not true, it's just Life Manipulation.

 

[Reio35]

My friend... Did you read the scan? or rather, have you read Naruto? "Izanagi is the PRACTICAL APPLICATION of the Creation of all things". Do you know what practical application is? because then, Izanagi is LITERALLY one of the effects of Onmyouton, Hagoromo completely dominates Onmyouton, Izanagi is an ocular jutsu that makes Uchihas able to use a fraction of Onmyouton's capabilities, but it has a high cost. Izanagi is Onmyouton, "Creation of all things" is Onmyouton, Hagoromo is master of Onmyouton.

You know that "life" there is an expression for "make it real", right? Onmyouton makes impossible things happen, turns fantasy into reality, "giving life" to something in the sense of making something into a living being is just one of the effects of Onmyouton, but not the main one, other examples of Onmyouton: Izanagi, Nullification of Ninjutsu of the Gudoudamas, Naruto recreating Kakashi's eye. All these effects are the fruit of the user's imagination, they make imagination come true, it has been said more than once. Onmyouton goes beyond just bringing something to life, it makes impossible things in reality. An example that the scan gives us is: Yin is where imagination reigns, Genjutsu is an example of Yin, it's just illusions, an illusory world, fantasies. Yang can make things happen, such as making the user's shadow extend and take on shapes and so on. When both are blended perfectly, it is possible to make Yang "bring to life" the illusions of Yin, that is, make these fantasies come true. This is Onmyouton.

While i do agree COAT creates life vai reality warping,that doesn't mean hagormo wouldn't suffer drawbacks if he used COAT to perform izangai because izangai is a higher degree of reality warping than naruto creating a eye or hago creating life. It lets the user rewrite their death for 1 minute. Sasuke,madara and obito Also used COAT/ yin yang release yet we dont see them spamming izangai maybe because it will cost him a eye.

 

[Reio35]

Okay, then let me give my final thoughts:

I agree that Hagoromo has Subjective Reality, but it's not because he created Bijuus or Naruto can heal Kakashi with an effect of COAT(which are arguments used in the OP), but rather because Izanagi is just an effect of COAT and COAT is superior to it.

Reality Warping part is not true, it's just Life Manipulation. So, Creation should not be removed from his profile and shouldn't be replaced with RW.

It's stated naruto created kakashi's eye and hago made the biju using yin yang release aka COAT

 

[RaveeCPN]

It's stated naruto created kakashi's eye and hago made the biju using yin yang release aka COAT

Naruto says otherwise. I also explained the Bijuu part. He created their bodies with Creation and gave them life with Life Manipulation, which is what the first scan used in the OP says. The body was created with Inton and given life with Yaton.

 

[GTsek]

Reality Warping is something that although I think it's fair, we've had several CRT's about it and they've all been denied, so it shouldn't even be up for discussion.

For Hagoromo I would put: "Creation, Life Manipulation and Subjective Reality with Onmyouton (Onmyouton is able to turn fantasy into reality, generating effects such as creating forms from nothing and giving life to them with the "Creation of All Things", the Izanagi is considered a practical and inferior application of the "Creation of All Things".)" or somehow better.

 

[RaveeCPN]

For Hagoromo I would put: "Creation, Life Manipulation and Subjective Reality with Onmyouton (Onmyouton is able to turn fantasy into reality, generating effects such as creating forms from nothing and giving life to them with the "Creation of All Things", the Izanagi is considered a practical and inferior application of the "Creation of All Things".)" or somehow better.

Seems legit, I agree.

 

[Yaozin]

Okay, then let me give my final thoughts:

I agree that Hagoromo has Subjective Reality, but it's not because he created Bijuus or Naruto can heal Kakashi with an effect of COAT(which are arguments used in the OP), but rather because Izanagi is just an effect of COAT and COAT is superior to it.

Reality Warping part is not true, it's just Life Manipulation. So, Creation should not be removed from his profile and shouldn't be replaced with RW.

Creating 9 creatures out of 1 living thing can be "life manipulation". But hagoromo creates 9 separate selves and souls. This will give him "reality warping". If you've already been told that the character can create anything and has been successfully supported, it's okay to get "reality warping."

 

[Yaozin]

While i do agree COAT creates life vai reality warping,that doesn't mean hagormo wouldn't suffer drawbacks if he used COAT to perform izangai because izangai is a higher degree of reality warping than naruto creating a eye or hago creating life. It lets the user rewrite their death for 1 minute. Sasuke,madara and obito Also used COAT/ yin yang release yet we dont see them spamming izangai maybe because it will cost him a eye.

"coat" is more extensive. Obito expresses this clearly.

 

[Yaozin]

What does it mean that the creatures created are a little different from the Juubi? Basically, even the reason why they were created as "Tailed" is because of Juubi. Hagoromo is completely based on Juubi when he creates them. He doesn't create beings that he really imagines, beings that don't exist, or things like that.

juubi is a single living thing. Hagoromo imagined 9 different souls. 9>1 bro is a simple equation

 

[Yaozin]

My friend... Did you read the scan? or rather, have you read Naruto? "Izanagi is the PRACTICAL APPLICATION of the Creation of all things". Do you know what practical application is? because then, Izanagi is LITERALLY one of the effects of Onmyouton, Hagoromo completely dominates Onmyouton, Izanagi is an ocular jutsu that makes Uchihas able to use a fraction of Onmyouton's capabilities, but it has a high cost. Izanagi is Onmyouton, "Creation of all things" is Onmyouton, Hagoromo is master of Onmyouton.

You know that "life" there is an expression for "make it real", right? Onmyouton makes impossible things happen, turns fantasy into reality, "giving life" to something in the sense of making something into a living being is just one of the effects of Onmyouton, but not the main one, other examples of Onmyouton: Izanagi, Nullification of Ninjutsu of the Gudoudamas, Naruto recreating Kakashi's eye. All these effects are the fruit of the user's imagination, they make imagination come true, it has been said more than once. Onmyouton goes beyond just bringing something to life, it makes impossible things in reality. An example that the scan gives us is: Yin is where imagination reigns, Genjutsu is an example of Yin, it's just illusions, an illusory world, fantasies. Yang can make things happen, such as making the user's shadow extend and take on shapes and so on. When both are blended perfectly, it is possible to make Yang "bring to life" the illusions of Yin, that is, make these fantasies come true. This is Onmyouton.

That's what I've been trying to tell from the beginning. Thank you

 

[Yaozin]

Okay, then let me give my final thoughts:

I agree that Hagoromo has Subjective Reality, but it's not because he created Bijuus or Naruto can heal Kakashi with an effect of COAT(which are arguments used in the OP), but rather because Izanagi is just an effect of COAT and COAT is superior to it.

Reality Warping part is not true, it's just Life Manipulation. So, Creation should not be removed from his profile and shouldn't be replaced with RW.

The site thinks like me anyway. Both "creation" and "reality warping" are given. Because it was said that the character could create anything, and it was supported by the feat. Creating things like "self" and "soul" is not "creation" but "reality warping" success. What do you not want to understand?

 

[Yaozin]

cus that does not fall under SR, cus the 9 came from something that was already real and existed, all hagoromo did was divide them

IF there was no 10 tails, and hagoromo simply imagined the 9 out of thin air with no base (in this case the 10 tails) then it would fall under SR

That's how it happened. He created 9 distinct selves and souls from the "chakra" of a living being, that is, from "just" one energy. In addition, the "ten-tailed" is a willless creature, while the 9-tailed beast has a will.

 

[RaveeCPN]

Creating 9 creatures out of 1 living thing can be "life manipulation". But hagoromo creates 9 separate selves and souls. This will give him "reality warping". If you've already been told that the character can create anything and has been successfully supported, it's okay to get "reality warping."

Hagoromo does not create souls for them. He splits Juubi's chakra into 9 and gives it to the 9 different bodies they all create and "gives them life". And this is Life manipulation, not Reality warping.

 

[RaveeCPN]

Anyways; I agree with the addition of Subjective Reality and Life manipulation, but I already stated my opinion about the reality warping.

 

[Yaozin]

Hagoromo does not create souls for them. He splits Juubi's chakra into 9 and gives it to the 9 different bodies they all create and "gives them life". And this is Life manipulation, not Reality warping.

You really don't want to understand. He created 9 selves and souls from only the "chakra" of a living being, that is, from only one type of energy. are you claiming that the "bijuu" have no souls, my friend?

 

[RaveeCPN]

In the scans you sent, it doesn't say that he creates souls, only that he gives life.

 

[Yaozin]

Anyways; I agree with the addition of Subjective Reality and Life manipulation, but I already stated my opinion about the reality warping.

wiki has already added "reality warping". That's right. Only your scholar or your understanding does not accept this.

 

[RaveeCPN]

wiki has already added "reality warping". That's right. Only your scholar or your understanding does not accept this.

My point is that the scans you are using are not enough for RW. If it's already in the profile, what are you trying to add?

 

[Yaozin]

In the scans you sent, it doesn't say that he creates souls, only that he gives life.

Come on, man. Are you serious when you say you give life? I say he created 9 different "selves" from just one energy. This is a clear "reality warping" achievement.

 

[RaveeCPN]

Come on, man. Are you serious when you say you give life? I say he created 9 different "selves" from just one energy. This is a clear "reality warping" achievement.

It still looks like life manipulation to me.

 

[Yaozin]

My point is that the scans you are using are not enough for RW. If it's already in the profile, what are you trying to add?

the topic of our discussion is whether there should be a "reality warping" success. Since the wiki is already on the same side as me, the profile has "reality warping". I want you to understand.

 

[RaveeCPN]

the topic of our discussion is whether there should be a "reality warping" success. Since the wiki is already on the same side as me, the profile has "reality warping". I want you to understand.

If I were to understand according to you, I think I would have understood by now. So is there any need to continue the RW debate?

 

[Yaozin]

It still looks like life manipulation to me.

Life Manipulation is the ability to manipulate the life force that courses inside living beings or the very concept of life itself.
The success of creating self and soul can never be done with "life manipulation" or "creation", man. He's just doing it from an energy.
please read descriptions of talents man

 

[Yaozin]

If I were to understand according to you, I think I would have understood by now. So is there any need to continue the RW debate?

No need, man. You just need to agree with subjective reality.

 

[Yaozin]

In the scans you sent, it doesn't say that he creates souls, only that he gives life.

In some things, the act of "reasoning" comes into play. Do bijuus have souls? yes. So did the person who created them create 9 different souls? yes.

 

[ssgengar]

Agree fra

 

[Yaozin]

Agree fra

thanks

 

[RaveeCPN]

No need, man. You just need to agree with subjective reality.

I already agree with that

 

[RaveeCPN]

But I would be especially appreciated if you could point out that I disagree with RW

 

[Yaozin]

But I would be especially appreciated if you could point out that I disagree with RW

This crt didn't open for "rw" buddy. So I don't need to mention

 

[RaveeCPN]

All right, then.

 

[Yaozin]

@Damage3245

Could you please re-evaluate? I want to think it's objective.

 

[Reio35]

The site thinks like me anyway. Both "creation" and "reality warping" are given. Because it was said that the character could create anything, and it was supported by the feat. Creating things like "self" and "soul" is not "creation" but "reality warping" success. What do you not want to understand?

He created their bodies and their chakra or soul comes from the juubi

 

[Yaozin]

He created their bodies and their chakra or soul comes from the juubi

You really don't understand. It creates 9 beings with will, mind, spirit and self from one willless being. Everything is clear, they don't come from juubi.

 

[Reio35]

You really don't understand. It creates 9 beings with will, mind, spirit and self from one willless being. Everything is clear, they don't come from juubi.

Their physical embodiments of chakra from the juubi. Chakra=the soul thus their souls come from yhe juubi tho hago could just added personality to them

 

[The_Alxhemist]

Is it just me or is the OP is in an entirely different language?

Is that Turkish or Azerbaijani?