Hagoromo and subjective reality

[Yaozin]

Hagoromo has to have subjective reality due to panel that i've shared in that CRT. Let me explain, the izanagi justu is a practical usage/application of the creation of all things. That's why, creation of all things is more comprehensive than izanagi. So, the hax's in izanagi must be considered for hagoromo himself. also creation of all things, which is can be seen in the panel that i've shared with you; has the ability of transform fantasy to reality. if you don't know, word meaning of fantasy is known as the faculty or activity of imagining impossible or improbable things according to oxford languages.
besides, the creation of all things does not have any negative side effects when using it contrary to izanagi, such as permanent blindness.

"It is stated in the databook of Hagoromo that he can create everything and this ability is supported by the creation of nine souls,wills and selves. This is clearly a reality warping achievement. Subjective reality can be successful if it is supported by turning fantasy into reality."

Agree: Deceived3596, Barbar01, lowlarinkrali, AKUTO123, reio35, karzen, Lewa, raveeCPN, GTsek, ssgengar, TheGod, Toby020 (12)


Disagree: Damage3245, Nullflowerblush (2)

Neutral: LordGriffin1000, KLOL506 (2)

 

[Yaozin]

@Antvasima @Arc7Kuroi @Damage3245 @Shadowbokunohero @LordTracer @LordGriffin1000 @Tllmbrg

I would like to know your opinions on this and i want to see your evaluations too if you can, have a good one​

 

[Lewa]

Finally a topic worth discussing.

 

[Barbar01]

i agree

 

[lowlarinkrali]

i agree

 

[Shadyboi0]

im 85% sure it's because the rinnegan restores blindness caused by izanagi

 

[Yaozin]

im 85% sure it's because the rinnegan restores blindness caused by izanagi

precision is needed

 

[Yaozin]

bump

 

[Reio35]

@Antvasima @Arc7Kuroi @Damage3245 @Shadowbokunohero @LordTracer @LordGriffin1000 @Tllmbrg

I would like to know your opinions on this and i want to see your evaluations too if you can, have a good one​

Izangai is a usage/application creation of all things. That means obito,madara and danzo are using "creation of all things" when they use izanagi. Now just because they can use izanagi doesn't mean hagoromo can especially since it was a justu made by the uhciha. That doesn't mean hagormo can't learn it tho.


Another example is toneri can use TSO to create objects and other jutsu like golden wheel that doesn't mean obito can do the same just because he he also has tso.

 

[Yaozin]

Izangai is a usage/application creation of all things. That means obito,madara and danzo are using "creation of all things" when they use izanagi. Now just because they can use izanagi doesn't mean hagoromo can especially since it was a justu made by the uhciha. That doesn't mean hagormo can't learn it tho.


Another example is toneri can use TSO to create objects and other jutsu like golden wheel that doesn't mean obito can do the same just because he he also has tso.

I didn't say it would use izanagi. I said that since coat is more comprehensive than izanagi, the same features should be found in hagoromo. The panel clearly says this, and there are additional supports.

 

[Reio35]

I didn't say it would use izanagi. I said that since coat is more comprehensive than izanagi, the same features should be found in hagoromo. The panel clearly says this, and there are additional supports.

The panel is just explaining the principles around creation of all things. It's only more versatile then izangai because it can also be used to create other things.

 

[Yaozin]

The panel is just explaining the principles around creation of all things. It's only more versatile then izangai because it can also be used to create other things.

It is through the passage that it turns fantasy into reality. And we know that with this ability you create souls and selves. that becomes a subjective reality success

 

[Yaozin]

The panel is just explaining the principles around creation of all things. It's only more versatile then izangai because it can also be used to create other things.

The panel also tells us that izanagi is "just" a practice. Even this will make the coat more comprehensive and superior.

 

[Reio35]

The panel also tells us that izanagi is "just" a practice. Even this will make the coat more comprehensive and superior.

That doesn't make it superior to izangai. Izangai is just a practical usage of Coat,that means it's just one of many ways to use coat which just makes Coat more versatile. Unless you interpret superior meaning more versatile.

It is through the passage that it turns fantasy into reality. And we know that with this ability you create souls and selves. that becomes a subjective reality success

It only created vessels for the biju don't know about souls

 

[Yaozin]

That doesn't make it superior to izangai. Izangai is just a practical usage of Coat,that means it's just one of many ways to use coat which just makes Coat more versatile. Unless you interpret superior meaning more versatile.

It only created vessels for the biju don't know about souls

Hagoromo created 9 beings from the "chakra" of only ten-tailed, that is, from only one energy. These beings have souls, selves, and minds. We call them "bijuu."

 

[AKUTO123]

It leaves me in doubt that Hagoromo only uses it to create bijuu and that this ability is not used for anything else. I think more evidence is needed to say that it can do more than create.

 

[Yaozin]

That doesn't make it superior to izangai. Izangai is just a practical usage of Coat,that means it's just one of many ways to use coat which just makes Coat more versatile. Unless you interpret superior meaning more versatile.

If the fact that the coat is just a practice means that it is one of the ways to use it, someone who owns a coat should be able to do it.

 

[Yaozin]

It leaves me in doubt that Hagoromo only uses it to create bijuu and that this ability is not used for anything else. I think more evidence is needed to say that it can do more than create.

I say that he "turned fantasy into reality" when he created 9 living things. I said above that there is a success in reality warping, but through fantasy there will be subjective reality.

 

[AKUTO123]

I don't have a problem with typing in the profile

 

[karzen]

well i agree

 

[Nullflowerblush]

This is Creation, Yin, and Life Manipulation, Yang.

 

[RaveeCPN]

I don't quite understand why he should have Subjective Reality. Iirc, for Hagoromo to have it, Bijuu should be creatures that can only exist in Hagoromo's imagination and dreams. But they aren't. And what Obito said is clearly a hyperbole.

Creation/Summoning: The user is capable of creating and manifesting objects and entities that aren't real at all, and only "exist" in the imagination and dreams of the user and/or other beings.

And I agree with Nullflowerblush

 

[Deceived3596]

Sure, i don't currently see why the statement would be hyperbolic, so that argument isn't that convincing to me.

Given the fact it's directly stated it turns fantasy into reality, i'm fine with Subjective Reality being added.

 

[RaveeCPN]

Given the fact it's directly stated it turns fantasy into reality, i'm fine with Subjective Reality being added.

The reason Obito said that was because Hagoromo had created the Tailed beasts, and they were beings that were supposed to be just fantasy for Obito and others. But already an example of these tailed beasts(Juubi) existed before they were created, and these beings are not imaginary for Hagoromo.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

At most I think possible Subjective Reality should work but I'm not well versed in Sage stuff and others have made decent points but I'll wait and see.

 

[Reio35]

Sure, i don't currently see why the statement would be hyperbolic, so that argument isn't that convincing to me.

Given the fact it's directly stated it turns fantasy into reality, i'm fine with Subjective Reality being added.

COAT is limited reality warping but that doesn't mean he can use izanagi like obito or can spam izangai with no draw backs

 

[KLOL506]

I'm curious, do we have an ability specifically for manipulating Yin and Yang in general?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Hagoromo has izanagi, how does he not already have subjective reality

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I'm curious, do we have an ability specifically for manipulating Yin and Yang in general?

Conceptual manipulation, but in Naruto it isn't

 

[RaveeCPN]

I mean, sure, having Izanagi gives him Subjective Reality, and I remember characters like Danzo and Madara having it in their profiles. But creating Bijuus shouldn't be presented as evidence.

 

[Purgy]

Hagoromo has izanagi, how does he not already have subjective reality

No he does not have Izanagi, that's a Sharingan technique, something Hagoromo doesn't have.

 

[Reio35]

All we know is hagormo created the 9 biju with COAT and split up the juubi that's it. Izangai was justu created by the uchiha long after hagormo died. At best he should only have subjective reality warping based of the mechanics of COAT and not by having izanagi

 

[XXKINGXX69]

No he does not have Izanagi, that's a Sharingan technique, something Hagoromo doesn't have.

He is said to likely know all jutsu

 

[Purgy]

He is said to likely know all jutsu

Scan for this?

And it doesn't matter as again, he doesn't have a Sharingan, he simply cannot use Izanagi which is specifically a Sharingan technique.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Scan for this?

And it doesn't matter as again, he doesn't have a Sharingan, he simply cannot use Izanagi which is specifically a Sharingan technique.

 

[Godernet]

Why does it matter if he has a sharingan when he has Rinnegan. It’s been stated and shown that Rinnegan is the final evolution of a Sharingan.

 

[Purgy]

Why does it matter if he has a sharingan when he has Rinnegan. It’s been stated and shown that Rinnegan is the final evolution a Sharingan can under go.

Because a Rinnegan doesn't have all the abilities of a Sharingan, only the Rinnesharingan is stated to have all the abilities of the Sharingan.

This is why Madara's Rinnegan tab for example doesn't include the abilities from his Sharingan tab, and even in the manga, Madara specifically turns his Rinnegan back into a Sharingan to use it's abilities.

 

[Yaozin]

I don't quite understand why he should have Subjective Reality. Iirc, for Hagoromo to have it, Bijuu should be creatures that can only exist in Hagoromo's imagination and dreams. But they aren't. And what Obito said is clearly a hyperbole.



And I agree with Nullflowerblush

Bijuus were not known until we created hagoromo. Before Hagoromo created them, there was only juubi. The reason for the subjective reality is that the character's creative achievements are made by turning fantasy into reality. This is supported by 3 statements.

 

[Yaozin]

The reason Obito said that was because Hagoromo had created the Tailed beasts, and they were beings that were supposed to be just fantasy for Obito and others. But already an example of these tailed beasts(Juubi) existed before they were created, and these beings are not imaginary for Hagoromo.

Tailed monsters did not exist before. There was Juubi, and 9 selves were created from his chakra. According to Obito, he did this by turning fantasy into reality. I also don't think it's an exaggeration since his talent was described there.

 

[Yaozin]

Scan for this?

And it doesn't matter as again, he doesn't have a Sharingan, he simply cannot use Izanagi which is specifically a Sharingan technique.

Creation of all things jutsu a more comprehensive and superior jutsu ...