- 175
- 32
- Thread starter
- #41
Agree. That's what I'm advocating for anyway.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Hagoromo and subjective reality
- Thread starter Yaozin
- Start date
- 5,220
- 3,346
Okay?
- 175
- 32
- Thread starter
- #43
Izanagi is just a practice of hagoromo's ability to create all things. When explaining the talent of the Hagoromo, it was said that he turned fantasy into reality. And he created 9 selves from the chakra of the ten-tailed. It also says that the databook can create anything.
- 175
- 32
- Thread starter
- #44
So there's nothing wrong with him taking subjective reality with the evidence I present.
- 175
- 32
- Thread starter
- #45
I know that the hagromo does perfectly. But I haven't heard that a talent is needed
- 175
- 32
- Thread starter
- #46
Why is it possible? It is said that Hagoromon's talent turns fantasy into reality. The databook says that the hagoromo can create anything. It also creates 9 beings with selves, souls and minds from the energy of the ten-tailed. I think he does this by turning fantasy into reality.
- 175
- 32
- Thread starter
- #47
Being able to create 9 selves and souls usually gives reality warping, but if hagoromo does this by turning fantasy into reality, it must give subjective reality.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,057
- 7,850
Under which circumstances? At best, that'd Creation and Soul Manipulation.
- 175
- 32
- Thread starter
- #49
Dude I doubt your knowledge. Creating a self is a reality warping achievement. If you do this by turning fantasy into reality, subjective reality is success.
- 175
- 32
- Thread starter
- #50
Creating things such as the soul and self that are not objects is not something that Creation can do. Also, creating a soul does not appear on the site as soul manipulation.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,057
- 7,850
"The ability to create anything from nothing."
Creating isn't Creation?
Creation again, then.
Flowery speech.
Tobi explicitly detailed how exactly Hagoromo was "[turning] fantasy into reality"; by using Yin Release to create shape and using Yang Release to give said shape life—playing God, in a sense.
- 5,879
- 1,070
Anything is reality warping
- 175
- 32
- Thread starter
- #53
"As long as it can be defined as object, the user has the power to make it reality." My friend, the self or soul cannot be created by this ability. Please take a look at the full description.
The combination of yin and fire gives us the creation of everything. It's not that simple
- 5,879
- 1,070
Why does it matter so much? Reality warping itself doesn't have much meaning.
- 175
- 32
- Thread starter
- #55
Correct update of the profile I want
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,057
- 7,850
"Possible Uses"
Subjective Reality is explicitly defined as "the power that allows the user to manipulate the boundary between reality and unreality", allowing the user to "induce reality to what is fiction, fantasy or imaginary, bringing them into existence, as well as turning facts, entities and events into unreality, vanishing them as if they were a mere dream or illusion". However, the Creation of All Things Technique is explicitly defined as combination of Creation and the ability to instill life within objects. A mathematician is not required to put two and two together; even an ape could solve this equation.
Creation of All Things Technique ≠ Subjective Reality.
- 175
- 32
- Thread starter
- #57
You misunderstand the subject, man. This technique, which is said to turn fantasy into reality, was only able to create 9 selves from an energy like chakra. you can't go up to it and contradict the explanation. Everyone on this page knows that turning fantasy into reality is a "subjective reality" achievement.
- 493
- 656
Juubi exists...
If he can create anything, that gives Creation. And I already said why exactly Obito's statement should not be taken seriously. Obito says this because the Tailed beasts were created but this is not exactly fantasy turned into reality. It's because Bijuus are so powerful etc. They are not beings that can only exist in books,comics etc. because Juubi existed before they were created.
- 175
- 32
- Thread starter
- #59
Hagoromo was able to create 9 intelligent selves from one mindless being, and according to the obitone's discourse, he did so only from the "chakra" of the ten-tailed. Obito tells us about this jutsu while turning fantasy into reality. Everything is clear, why don't you understand?
- 175
- 32
- Thread starter
- #60
I explained that. If things that we cannot define as objects are being created, this is not the success of "creation" but the achievement of reality warping. If you do this by turning fantasy into reality, "subjective reality" is its success. You can think of it like Gremmy. The character has both "reality warping" and "subjective reality" achievements.
- 493
- 656
I think I have explained two or three times why this is not a success of "Fantasy turning into Reality". If Subjective Reality is added to his profile, he can only gain it with Izanagi. But since Hagoromo doesn't have Rinnesharingan, I doubt if he can use Izanagi with Rinnegan.
- 175
- 32
- Thread starter
- #62
izanagi is just a practice of the talent of the hagoromos. Obito adds that Hagoromo turned fantasy into reality when explaining his talent and makes it clear that he is superior to izanagi.
- 175
- 32
- Thread starter
- #65
In fact, the profile of the hagromo has creation and reality warping for the reason I mentioned. I think subjective reality should be added as well. Someone who can logically create selves and souls would take "reality warping" instead of "creation."
- 175
- 32
- Thread starter
- #66
- 2,954
- 1,440
Characters don't get abilities based on if they can do something. For example gremmy created and gave lee NEP but that doesn't mean he can use it on himself even tho it's very likely since he made the power. Just another one of VSB wiki's weird rules
- 29,935
- 25,092
I agree with Nullflowerblush.
- 175
- 32
- Thread starter
- #70
Can I ask why? We are told that talent turns fantasy into reality, and creates 9 selves and souls from the chakra of ten-tailed. This friend rejects this success.
- 6,105
- 2,510
cus that does not fall under SR, cus the 9 came from something that was already real and existed, all hagoromo did was divide them
IF there was no 10 tails, and hagoromo simply imagined the 9 out of thin air with no base (in this case the 10 tails) then it would fall under SR
- 493
- 656
That's what I've been trying to say all along. Thank you for supporting my point
- 680
- 397
I agree with everything. Anyone who has read Naruto and has a good interpretation knows that Izanagi is just an inferior version of Hagoromo's technique. Izanagi is a practical application of Onmyouton, there is a difference between creating things and turning fantasy into reality, that is precisely why there is subjective reality and creation as two different haxes.
- 175
- 32
- Thread starter
- #74
Dude there is already only 1 live. He also has ten tails, but he creates 9 different selves from his "chakra" alone. From the energy of one mindless being. Was it clarifying?
- 175
- 32
- Thread starter
- #75
Dude there is already only 1 live. He also has ten tails, but he creates 9 different selves from his "chakra" alone. From the energy of one mindless being. Was it clarifying?That's what I've been trying to say all along. Thank you for supporting my point
- 680
- 397
Hagoromo is a very idealistic and "abstract" character, in the novel Retsuden his star map has references to bijuus before their creation although the juubi is a bijuu, Hagoromo took his chakra, gave it form and life, creating 9 different creatures from nothing, the form that Hagoromo gave the biju is the form of cratures that are mythological even in the universe of Naruto, basically all bijuu are folkloric creatures that do not exist, Hagoromo used his imagination and turned fantasy (mythological creatures) into reality (Bijuu). Bijuus already existed before (Juubi), but mythological creatures did not exist.
- 493
- 656
What does it mean that the creatures created are a little different from the Juubi? Basically, even the reason why they were created as "Tailed" is because of Juubi. Hagoromo is completely based on Juubi when he creates them. He doesn't create beings that he really imagines, beings that don't exist, or things like that.
- 680
- 397
Now I've seen it all... Literally creating creatures that don't exist, that are just imagination, isn't turning fantasy into reality? they are literally myths, fantasy, collective delusions, and have been turned into reality. How this isn't is turn fantasy into reality? The OP literally linked a scan that says that Onmyouton's Modus Operandi is literally the Yang turning things imagined by Yin into reality...
- 493
- 656
After Obito says this, he gives the example of the Bijuu. And I explained why this example is not correct. + Nowhere in the scan does it say that Hagoromo took inspiration from myths to create them.
Also, the "Inton" mentioned in the scan gives creation and "Yoton" gives Life Manipulation, not SR.
- 680
- 397
My friend... Did you read the scan? or rather, have you read Naruto? "Izanagi is the PRACTICAL APPLICATION of the Creation of all things". Do you know what practical application is? because then, Izanagi is LITERALLY one of the effects of Onmyouton, Hagoromo completely dominates Onmyouton, Izanagi is an ocular jutsu that makes Uchihas able to use a fraction of Onmyouton's capabilities, but it has a high cost. Izanagi is Onmyouton, "Creation of all things" is Onmyouton, Hagoromo is master of Onmyouton.
You know that "life" there is an expression for "make it real", right? Onmyouton makes impossible things happen, turns fantasy into reality, "giving life" to something in the sense of making something into a living being is just one of the effects of Onmyouton, but not the main one, other examples of Onmyouton: Izanagi, Nullification of Ninjutsu of the Gudoudamas, Naruto recreating Kakashi's eye. All these effects are the fruit of the user's imagination, they make imagination come true, it has been said more than once. Onmyouton goes beyond just bringing something to life, it makes impossible things in reality. An example that the scan gives us is: Yin is where imagination reigns, Genjutsu is an example of Yin, it's just illusions, an illusory world, fantasies. Yang can make things happen, such as making the user's shadow extend and take on shapes and so on. When both are blended perfectly, it is possible to make Yang "bring to life" the illusions of Yin, that is, make these fantasies come true. This is Onmyouton.
Similar threads
- Locked
