Guts vs B O R N I N T H E U S A

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Jacket(Hotline Miami) vs G u t s

Guts isn’t a true P A T R I O T. Jacket gets sent out to silence the UNAMERICAN and COMMUNIST European

speed equal.

All optional equipment (so long as it isn’t too OP).

9-B keys used.

Fight takes place in a village.


Both are equal in AP(scale to head crushing)

Jacket:

BERSERK:

 

[SpookyShadow]

Eh, Guts' sword has 9-A durability so he can easily shield himself from his attacks.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Really?

Well Jacket Outranges him pretty hard,and has some decent skill with guns.He can most definitely overcome that

 

[SpookyShadow]

It took attacks from Wyald. Also, 9-B Guts is hella stronger than head-crushing, if we're talking about his peak. He improved so much it's not even funny.

Being outranged is the most common thing to happen in Berserk fights. Not a big deal. Crossbow bolts, large logs et cetera, Guts always blocks and parries the shit out of it.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Jacket 1 shots people who can do headcrushing. (100k joules)

Being out ranged by one of the most skilled marksmen in America?The same guy who wipes out entire military platoons and mafia houses before backup or police can arrive?Who has automatic weaponry,flame throwers,snipers,etc.

Irrc bullets still affect tier 9 stuff,especially sniper fire.They might be able to pierce through the sword.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Jacket 1 shots people who can do headcrushing. (100k joules)

So does Guts, in fact, he stomped Griffith without even touching him (Mostly because he caused a mental breakdown in him, but it already was known that if it wasn't for causality, Griffith would be cut in half). Early in the series Griffith has stomped him, when Guts already scaled as he could cut a large armored man's head in half. I don't know if it's any better than cutting through head, but Guts could also slice four armored men in half with one swing when he was weaker.

Being out ranged by one of the most skilled marksmen in America?The same guy who wipes out entire military platoons and mafia houses before backup or police can arrive?Who has automatic weaponry,flame throwers,snipers,etc.

I mean, he's fighting against Guts himself here. The dude who also fights armies, and with his sword alone. When younger and dumber, he could slay 100 men in one night, while going non-stop. He doesn't have any flashy techniques or ranged weapons, just a greatsword. So I'd say he's pretty skilled too. As stupid as it sounds, he can block the bullets without much trouble, speed is equalized, so they are the same speed as his reaction speed.

Irrc bullets still affect tier 9 stuff,especially sniper fire.They might be able to pierce through the sword.

They can, but the 9-A I'm talking about is pretty high into the tier. It took Wyald's attacks, and Wyald did this feat. I've thought even barely piercing 9-A applies only to baseline?

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

I mean, he's fighting against Guts himself here. The dude who also fights armies, and with his sword alone. When younger and dumber, he could slay 100 men in one night, while going non-stop. He doesn't have any flashy techniques or ranged weapons, just a greatsword. So I'd say he's pretty skilled too. As stupid as it sounds, he can block the bullets without much trouble, speed is equalized, so they are the same speed as his reaction speed.

Tbf that’s mostly in melee combat and against far slower weaponry (crossbows,bows,etc). Jacket fights against much more modern weaponry and people who have similar feats to his own (casually wrecking them too btw). He also had a wide variety of weaponry that can slip through the cracks or simple go over Gut’s sword and crisp him (flamethrower).

They can, but the 9-A I'm talking about is pretty high into the tier. It took Wyald's attacks, and Wyald did this feat. I've thought even barely piercing 9-A applies only to baseline?

Fair point.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Tbf that’s mostly in melee combat and against far slower weaponry (crossbows,bows,etc). Jacket fights against much more modern weaponry and people who have similar feats to his own (casually wrecking them too btw). He also had a wide variety of weaponry that can slip through the cracks or simple go over Gut’s sword and crisp him (flamethrower).

Yes, but here the bullets are the same speed as them. Also worth to note Guts' agility to dodge the bullets and his passive luck. If he even gets hit, he will be fine because of his impeccable stamina. The chicken dude can't hit his organs because of Guts shielding himself with the sword.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

If he even gets hit, he will be fine because of his impeccable stamina.

He doesnt have his armor in this key,so if Jacket decides to blow out his ankles or legs it’s definitely over.Even if he could handle the pain,he won’t be able to get his joints to function if they are turned to mush by the bullets.

Yes, but here the bullets are the same speed as them.

That’s fair,but it’s more about the sheer quantity of bullets that would be spewed out at him.Shotgun spread and firing a **** ton of projectiles make it more of a challenge

 

[SpookyShadow]

He doesnt have his armor in this key,so if Jacket decides to blow out his ankles or legs it’s definitely over.Even if he could handle the pain,he won’t be able to get his joints to function if they are turned to mush by the bullets.

He does have an armor, he can definitely dodge the bullets, and his fate defiance/passive luck definitely helps him overcome the bullets. This is the dude who fights with a broken mindstate, while bleeding out, lacking a hand, being entirely covered in wounds and lacking an eye. And right after that could run for an ENTIRE day. All at once. So no, some bullet graze won't stop him.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

He does have an armor

Doesn’t matter,bullets will definitely pierce through it.

and his fate defiance/passive luck definitely helps him overcome the bullets

Fair,but it’s not too OP last time I checked.It would be pretty useful here tho.

And right after that could run for an ENTIRE day. All at once. So no, some bullet graze won't stop him.

That wasn’t something that functionally stopped him from running.If you blew you his joints out,even if he could withstand the pain.He wouldn’t be able to move.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Doesn’t matter,bullets will definitely pierce through it.

I just said he has an armor in contrast to what you said, not that bullets can't pierce through it. They can't through the sword though. As I said, dodging bullets ain't even that much of a problem. Guts has dodged multiple completely controlled whip-swords at once without a problem. If the bullets are the same speed, with his agility that allows him to leap really high into the air, even with his sword, he could overcome them. Also I'm pretty much certain that Guts has the AP advantage now. He has slaughtered a dude that can crush marble and as I mentioned earlier he sliced few armored dudes in half with a single swing. Seems more impressive than Jacket's feats.

Fair,but it’s not too OP last time I checked.It would be pretty useful here tho.

His supernatural luck is the only reason he's alive in the series by now, that combined with his persistence (In the flow of causality he was literally destined to die, and yet he survived because he defied fate), so I'd say, it takes part in this fight. It's not Izuru Kamukura or Shion Yorigami level luck, but it does help.

That wasn’t something that functionally stopped him from running.If you blew you his joints out,even if he could withstand the pain.He wouldn’t be able to move.

If he CAN hit the joints. As I said, Guts' sword that can withstand 9-A attacks, his luck, stamina and persistence, honed senses, agility, cleverness and skill should prove useful here. Chicken doesn't seem like much of a CQC guy, so if Guts get close, he gets slaughtered.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Chicken doesn't seem like much of a CQC guy, so if Guts get close, he gets slaughtered.

Just wanted to touch on this topic here,since Jacket can take out multiple dudes with military training(that can dodge bullets too) in close quarter combat without getting hit and killing them easily.

He can clear entire floors with just melee against trained combatants with guns. He isn’t Guts level,but he can hold his own. Especially with that Class 50 LS,Jacket can snare Gut’s weapon away and kill him with it.

I’ll respond more in a bit

 

[SpookyShadow]

Just wanted to touch on this topic here,since Jacket can take out multiple dudes with military training(that can dodge bullets too) in close quarter combat without getting hit and killing them easily.

I've seen his feats on the linked RT, it's nothing close to Guts, really. Guts was under far more harsh conditions performing his feats, and they are still more impressive.

He can clear entire floors with just melee against trained combatants with guns. He isn’t Guts level,but he can hold his own. Especially with that Class 50 LS,Jacket can snare Gut’s weapon away and kill him with it.

Can you link? Also, he's not snatching away Guts' sword before he gets cleaved in half, his only option is to dodge. The sword is too large to just grab it and take it away, if he grabs it he will get stabbed instead of being slashed, which will make it an easy defeat. He would need to grab Guts' arms to overpower him, and with Guts' dodging ability and his own range (because the sword is LONG AS ****), he's not succeeding in that.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Most of his feats come from the levels and the amount of enemies in there,here’s an example (2:40).He should leagues above this guy (since he was part of the D company that struggled to overcome the stronghold) , who cleared a floor of heavily armed mafia guys (2:00).

That luck tho,if only Guts was higher into 9-B .Wasted potential smh,I’m pretty sure his door feat would get him higher if it were calced.

Anywho,Chicken man gets dunked by sword guy. GG

 

[SpookyShadow]

I’m pretty sure his door feat would get him higher if it were calced.

It was performed in his 9-A key, wouldn't do any good.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

And they call Guts the struggler, with that killer win streak lmao.

more like the The D r i p Swordsman

 

[SpookyShadow]

 

[Abstractions]

Speed equalization is still relative with projectiles, if they were much faster before they stay that way.

Assuming optional equipment means Jacket is granted guns at all, Guts has his brains blown out.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Pretty sure there was a thread not so long ago where everyone said that speed equalization means EVERY type of speed is equalized? That means Guts can react.

 

[Abstractions]

Pretty sure there was a thread not so long ago where everyone said that speed equalization means EVERY type of speed is equalized? That means Guts can react.

Projectiles are to maintain an advantage relative to the person using them, if speed is being equalized to subsonic and characters have Supersonic+ weapons, the weapons stay that fast.

If we chose to equalize guns and projectiles to match people, we'd be looking at Athletic Human bullets for a lot of low tier matchups.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Doesn't really change anything I've said earlier though

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Jacket has subsonic weaponry last I checked anywho, gut’s movement speed is similar to that

 

[SpookyShadow]

Well he has guns in his standard equipment nah? They are always transonic to supersonic

 

[Abstractions]

Doesn't really change anything I've said earlier though

I fully believe it does, Jacket being an elite solider could do with three other people what an entire military company couldn't do in weeks, he should have extremely precise aim and given a fully automatic weapon, it doesn't matter how big a sword or shield Guts has, he's going to get shot a lot.

Jacket has subsonic weaponry last I checked anywho, gut’s movement speed is similar to that

Jacket's page reflects his physicals, not his use of guns. His physical combat speed is Subsonic.

 

[SpookyShadow]

If he really is against something supersonic and is that much outranged while being Subsonic himself, that would mean he's getting stomped right here.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

****


I’ll specify the range to 100 meters in that case

 

[SpookyShadow]

That will change nothing though, that's already their range.

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

Hmm...

50 or 30 might help then?

 

[SpookyShadow]

I mean, either Guts cleaves this guy in half with few strikes or he shredded into swiss cheese. I can't see many other outcomes to this. 9-B Guts isn't a range fighter, and TBH I hate this kind of matches and debating sword vs gun if the sword has no feats against guns. That's why I didn't vote yet.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

And they call Guts the struggler, with that killer win streak lmao.

more like the The D r i p Swordsman

He used to be a punching bag on this wiki lmao. At one point he lost to fuqn Kirito, and his only win was against a clown

 

[SpookyShadow]

If more people put him against guns he will be instead a shooting mannequin

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

I mean, either Guts cleaves this guy in half with few strikes or he shredded into swiss cheese. I can't see many other outcomes to this. 9-B Guts isn't a range fighter, and TBH I hate this kind of matches and debating sword vs gun if the sword has no feats against guns. That's why I didn't vote yet.

Damn I really thought this would’ve worked,maybe limiting him to a single fire gun like a shotgun would work?

Wouldn’t his luck sort of help him survive the gunfire?

 

[SpookyShadow]

Uh, I don't know. Do what you think is right. Luck would help, but when Guts'll try to swing, he can get his head blown off and shit. Dangerous, am I right? Guns vs swords. Guts isn't Gray Fox to slice through all the bullets and kill the dude. He needs to get close, the other guy does not need to.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

I like how this thread captives how Geralt vs Guts went on