Gremmy's Meteor

[Purgy]

If we can yeet Yoruichi's statement, I'd be happy to pixel scale the meteor.

Not happening, several staff members agreed that the statement is fine in your downgrade thread which failed and it's backed up by stuff in the novel such as mountains and vast plains existing in Seireitei

Exact same issue. It's mixing visuals and statements when I was expressly told by the Bleach fandom that we can't use visuals for this because Kubo is a terrible artist.

Can we get a source for this please? I don't ever remember it being said that visuals can't be used for Bleach period, rather in the case of Hueco Mundo and Seireitei it was agreed that the statements were more consistent than the inconsistent visuals.

You can't just forbid visuals entirely, that's ridiculous.

 

[Damage3245]

No no no, that was specifically for Seireitei’s size not every single drawing in the manga.

That calc doesn’t rely on scaling the meteor to Seireitei’s visuals at all, it only scales the meteor to the accepted size of Seireitei.

That calc does rely on the visuals of Seireite's size, or more specifically the dome of the Seireitei.

You can't just forbid visuals entirely, that's ridiculous.

Why do you think we used IMade's calc in the first place?

 

[Purgy]

Why do you think we used IMade's calc in the first place?

Because Bleach downplay, that's it, Bleach is in a state where you have to generally lowball your calcs to extreme degrees to even have a hope of it being accepted here.

Show me a source where it's said visuals can't be used for Bleach at all.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

That calc does rely on the visuals Seireite's size, or more specifically the dome of the Seireitei.



Why do you think we used IMade's calc in the first place?

yeah but it doesn’t rely on scaling the meteor to visuals of Seireitei which is where inconsistencies happen. It takes an accepted size -> a statement that meteor is outside the barrier -> to find the size

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Ok what's going on here?

We're not pixel scaling the meteor cause why?

 

[PrinceofPein]

If we can yeet Yoruichi's statement, I'd be happy to pixel scale the meteor

I dont think this should matter, since unlike other instances of inconsistencies there are no insconsistencies of the meteor size compared to the sereitei
so we can just use the 1/2 of the accepted size of sereitei to scale the meteor

 

[Damage3245]

Ok what's going on here?

We're not pixel scaling the meteor cause why?

Because I was told in numerous past CRT's that visuals are not valid for scaling size in Bleach at all.

Now suddenly visuals are totally okay to pixelscale the size when it is convenient to them.

 

[Purgy]

Because I was told in numerous past CRT's that visuals are not valid for scaling size in Bleach at all.

Now suddenly visuals are totally okay to pixelscale the size when it is convenient to them.

You haven't provided any sources as to where you were told this.

Again, pixel scaling isn't even necessary, you can eyeball it and clearly see the meteor is half of Seireitei's diameter.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

How the hell can you even calculate the meteor without pixel scaling visuals?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Damage believes that we cannot use the Seireitei for any pixel scale related calcs in finding the size of other objects. Because Seireitei has some inconsistent size showings.

I proposed this calc (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:USklaverei/Gremmy_Meteor_(Again)) since it doesn’t use Seireitei to pixel scale the meteor, it merely takes an accepted size of Seireitei and the fact that the meteor is outside Seireitei (more than 509.3km away) to find its size. So there is not issue of “Seireitei pixel scaling leading to inconsistencies”.

 

[Damage3245]

You haven't provided any sources as to where you were told this.

Again, pixel scaling isn't even necessary, you can eyeball it and clearly see the meteor is half of Seireitei's diameter.

You can also see the size of Yhwach's castle in the same shot as the meteor.

You can also see the meteor breaking through the clouds in that same panel. Clouds like that aren't typically 800 or 900 kilometers high above the ground, are they?

 

[PrinceofPein]

PLEASE CAN ANYONE ANSWER MY QUESTION AS TO WHY WE ARE SCALING GREMMY TO THE DESTRUCTION THE METEOR WOULD CAUSE INSTEAD OF THE SIZE OF WHAT HE CREATED?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

How the hell can you even calculate the meteor without pixel scaling visuals?

Seireitei is scaled size-wise off of statements because the drawings of specifically Seireitei were inconsistent.

Damage is taking that to mean we cannot use any type of pixel scaling that involves anything with Seireitei.

However, this calc (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:USklaverei/Gremmy_Meteor_(Again)) doesn’t pixel scale the meteor to Seireitei’s pixel size. So it circumvents that whole Seireitei drawing inconsistency.

PLEASE CAN ANYONE ANSWER MY QUESTION AS TO WHY WE ARE SCALING GREMMY TO THE DESTRUCTION THE METEOR WOULD CAUSE INSTEAD OF THE SIZE OF WHAT HE CREATED?

Kenpachi scales to the meteor, Gremmy scales to Kenpachi. He also created a meteor moving. Hence why he’d scale to KE

 

[Purgy]

You can also see the size of Yhwach's castle in the same shot as the meteor.

You can also see the meteor breaking through the clouds in that same panel. Clouds like that aren't typically 800 or 900 kilometers high, are they?

We have an accepted size for the diameter of the Seireitei, we don't have an accepted size for Yhwach's castle.

Maybe Soul Society has abnormal clouds? Not sure where you're going with this, I'm aware Bleach's visuals are inconsistent, it doesn't change that we have an accepted size for the Seireitei's diameter and we can clearly see the meteors diameter in relation to it.

 

[Damage3245]

We have an accepted size for the diameter of the Seireitei, we don't have an accepted size for Yhwach's castle.

What kind of response is this? It is extremely easy to find out the size of Yhwach's castle.

Maybe Soul Society has abnormal clouds? Not sure where you're going with this, I'm aware Bleach's visuals are inconsistent, it doesn't change that we have an accepted size for the Seireitei's diameter and we can clearly see the meteors diameter in relation to it.

Or maybe the dome isn't that big.

Whether the size is accepted or not does not make it an objective fact.

 

[YukaSama4]

Kenpachi scales to the meteor, Gremmy scales to Kenpachi.

pRoVE tHaT ThE Gremmy wHo cReAteD tHe MeTEoR sCaLes tO shikai Zaraki

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

What's even the point of the Seiretei's Size if we can't pixel scale it for anything?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Kenpachi scales to the meteor, Gremmy scales to Kenpachi.

well the scaling is simple then
shikai kenny>= 2X gremmy

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Gremmy Meteor (Again)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Damage this calc quite literally circumvents comparing the meteor’s pixels to Seireitei’s pixels.

Seireitei is accepted to be 509 km radius. Meteor is 509 km if not higher into the sky. Ang size it doesn’t rely on comparing pixels. Thus there is no drawing inconsistencies to worry about.

Quite literally everyone but you finds using it’s size reasonable.

 

[YukaSama4]

What's even the point of the Seiretei's Size if we can't pixel scale it for anything?

Seireitei’s size is based on a statement, they want to scale the Meteor to that size if im not mistaken, but Damage is disagreeing because since we refused to get Seireitei’s size using pixel scaling, we cant scale the meteor to the sereitei based on that panel

 

[Purgy]

What kind of response is this? It is extremely easy to find out the size of Yhwach's castle.

Which would be pixel scaling, which isn't what I'm saying we should do.

We don't need to use anything inside of Seireitei because it's already accepted that the radius of Seireitei is around 500 KM, and as such, that should be used.

Or maybe the dome isn't that big.

Whether the size is accepted or not does not make it an objective fact.

It's an objective fact while it's accepted here, which it is, by several staff members that all agreed the statement is supported by the novels and that the visuals are generally inconsistent with each other, you should know after all, it was agreed upon in your attempted downgrade.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Gremmy Meteor (Again)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Yeah in general, this calc is fine and can be used in my book if we don't want to use the shot of the seireitei compared to the meteor

Now stop arguing bout it

 

[Purgy]

I'm fine with that calc being used, the only concern I have is that it was used before and removed iirc.

Though I have no idea which CRT it was removed in.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I’d imagine it was removed for the same “Seireitei inconsistent” reasons for the other meteor calcs. But that really isn’t the case with this calc.

I’ll update the OP to reflect the calc of the hour.

 

[YukaSama4]

imo we should just scale the meteor size to the seireitei here, its clear to me that Kubo made it that way to show how big the meteor is.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Updated the OP but I'll paste the scaling here so y'all don't have to click back and forth, using the calc Mitch linked ofc.

Scaling

• Gremmy: 6-A, higher with 1 clone, High 6-A with 6 clones (Imagined a meteor capable of destroying Seireitei with one clone, where said one clone "doubled the power of his imagination")
• Kenpachi: 6-A (Overwhelmed a single Gremmy), High 6-A with Shikai (Cut through Gremmy's meteor and surpassed Gremmy's imagination), even higher with Bankai (Bankai increases one's stats, cut Giant Gerard in half), far higher without his eyepatch (Eyepatch restricts his power)
  • Keys: Post-Unohana training
• Byakuya: High 6-A (Stronger than before, blocked attacks from Giant Vollstandig Gerard)
  • Keys: Post-RG Training
• Mayuri: 6-A (Capable of fighting off Pernida, stabbed Kenpachi)
  • Keys: TYBW
• Pernida: 6-A (Evolved to base Kenpachi's level)
• Nemu: 6-A with power enhancement (Blew Pernida to smithereens)
  • Keys: TYBW
• Toshiro: 6-A (Capable of boxing up Mayuri in his zombified state, was able to briefly hold off Giant Gerard) | High 6-A (Fought Giant Vollstandig Gerard)
  • Keys: Post-Training TYBW | Adult
• Gerard: High 6-A (Fought on par with ShiKen) | High 6-A (Cut off BanKen's arm at the shoulder) | High 6-A (Stronger than before)
  • Keys: God Size | V1 | V2
• Yhwach: High 6-A (Stated to be superior to Gremmy, only he could seal Gremmy's imagination, and no Sternritter is his equal)
  • Keys: Base
• Ichibe: High 6-A (Pimp smacked base Yhwach)
• Yama: High 6-A with Bankai (No Quincy was powerful enough except for Yhwach to handle Yama's Bankai, which would include Gremmy)

1 Gremmy is 3.63e24 joules (6-A), 2 Gremmy is 7.26e24 joules (6-A), 7 Gremmy is 2.54e25 joules (High 6-A), BanKen is 1.27e26 joules (High 6-A).

 

[Tsotso]

Hmm...interesting.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

From the beginning of the fight, Gremmy's lack of power himself becomes apparent, with him having to imagine himself being durable enough to withstand a blow from Kenpachi. Along with that, he has not displayed any destructive feats with any other abilities—for example, he never uses any of his Quincy abilities, assuming he can even use those. And, his claims of being the strongest Sternritter derives from his powerful ability.

So, his stats should be changed to something like:

Unknown (Has shown no destructive feats, but can increase his physical ability with The Visionary). 6-A, up to High 6-A (Can increase the capabilities of The Visionary by creating doppelgangers. Imagined a meteor capable of destroying Seireitei with one clone, doubling his power, and increased his power even further by creating six clones) with The Visionary

Of course, this does not affect the scaling. It's just more organized.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yeah I wouldn’t be opposed to “cleaning up” the display to make it more organized. We see Gremmy’s imagination is tied to his physicals and physical exertion. But I could see a “6-A up to High 6-A” being a lot nicer looking lol.

 

[Arcker123]

Nufflower suggestion looks good.

 

[liluzivert]

agree with this.

 

[Tsotso]

After skimming through this thread it seems that everyone agrees the ground based explosion method doesn't work, right?

What method does this use?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

After skimming through this thread it seems that everyone agrees the ground based explosion method doesn't work, right?

What method does this use?

Yes and the method the linked one uses the following: Kinetic energy.

To go more in depth, it takes the known fact that the meteor was outside Seireitei coupled with Seireitei’s accepted radius of ~509 km to say the meteor is at least 509 km above the ground. Then it ang sizes the meteor to get its physical size. Followed up with converting a physical size into a mass using volumes and mass densities. Capped off with the standard KE formula using ablation speeds. It’s just the standard KE calc that you see with meteors.

 

[Teezar]

Purgy and arc7kuroi make sense to me.

 

[LordGinSama]

Looks good although I might be forgetting but didn't Gremmy get torn to shreds as a result of attempting to boost himself to Ken's level?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yes

 

[LordGinSama]

So he's durability shouldn't scale directly to Kenny, as lon the profile notes he's weaker the changes should be fine.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Well Gremmy scales to his own feats, Kenny scales above em

 

[Tsotso]

Yes and the method the linked one uses the following: Kinetic energy.

To go more in depth, it takes the known fact that the meteor was outside Seireitei coupled with Seireitei’s accepted radius of ~509 km to say the meteor is at least 509 km above the ground. Then it ang sizes the meteor to get its physical size. Followed up with converting a physical size into a mass using volumes and mass densities. Capped off with the standard KE formula using ablation speeds. It’s just the standard KE calc that you see with meteors.

Seems good then. It's a better method than ground-based explosion.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Outside of my wording, does anyone else have issues with the scaling?