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Gremmy Thoumeaux vs Ji Ning - Battle for 4th Strongest High 6-A (Non-Smurf)

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That's literally an assumption on your part, saying "it is literally his own creation" doesn't prove anything, you're just restating the obvious and acting like proves anything, it doesn't. Google what burden of proof is.
He has only used EE IC on people and things who are explicitly his own creations, even without the plot stuff involved for Kenpachi he
The lack of him EE'ing anybody else isn't innate evidence for your claim dude, especially when it's directly shown he can erase things which aren't his creations. Actually read his profile.
Perfectly fine with accepting that he can but not that he will as his first move
It does, it means he can erase things which aren't his creation, and since the fact EE is one of his go to offensive usages of his ability he'd be able to erase Ji Ning just like he does Lee and the rubble
The rubble isn’t offensive (more defensive actually) and sure he can erase stuff that is not his creations, that doesn’t mean he will

Not covering conceptual lock since Planck already covered it
 
No it doesn't, because Ji Ning's thought-based stuff is dependent on him having higher Soul Manipulation layers than Gremmy, which hasn't been discussed yet. The only thing that Gremmy doesn't currently resist is the Conceptual Lock, but it wouldn't matter because Ji Ning would be erased from existence or imagined dead by Gremmy.
Then let's drop the first move discussion and start the soul layering discussion.

As you already know from Discord, whatever happens to Ning's main body wouldn't end the fight as he has his Primaltwin.
 
He has only used EE IC on people and things who are explicitly his own creations, even without the plot stuff involved for Kenpachi he
😐

You still aren't proving why such a distinction matters, you just (again) restated the obvious, until you can provide evidence or logical reasoning on why this distinction matters, you need to drop this point. Because you aren't arguing it well rn.

Perfectly fine with accepting that he can but not that he will as his first move
Disagree.

The rubble isn’t offensive (more defensive actually) and sure he can erase stuff that is not his creations, that doesn’t mean he will

Not covering conceptual lock since Planck already covered it
.....Huh? it's directly an offensive usage of his ability, the context of it being a defensive action doesn't mean the ability wasn't used offensively......whu. That isn't the argument behind him erasing Ji Ning initially Ultimate, that's just to show that he can and will erase things which aren't his own creation.
 
... But that rubble is his own creation, no?
Maybe, i don't remember of the top of my head rn.

But it wouldn't matter since the onus would be on you to prove it's only usable against his creations when that interpretation isn't supported by the ability itself, its description nor is it innately supported by feats either.

It would be a battle of interpretations and i don't believe that interpretation would win.
 
Currently not able to easily access the fandom profiles so does Gremmy have any special immortalities? Like, anything stopping physical death? Cause like before, concept lock applies, Ning loses his body and Primaltwin Ning can finish the job.
 
Not sure, it's not exactly powered by Ning's own self rather than the Dao of the Sword. And like, the lock can negate thought-based powers while applied (considering Ning's first taste of it in a lower key) so even if negated, Primaltwin Ning cam erase himself from Gremmy's memory, leave the Starseizing Manor and reapply it before doing him in.
 
Not sure, it's not exactly powered by Ning's own self rather than the Dao of the Sword. And like, the lock can negate thought-based powers while applied (considering Ning's first taste of it in a lower key) so even if negated, Primaltwin Ning cam erase himself from Gremmy's memory, leave the Starseizing Manor and reapply it before doing him in.
How exactly does he erase himself from Gremmy's memory, like how does he activate the ability, how long does said effect to active etc. And can he do that before he gets EE'd or Death Manip'd by Gremmy?
 
Not sure, it's not exactly powered by Ning's own self rather than the Dao of the Sword.
Well, i'd say it's possible his Primaltwin would be able to keep it up even after his death, but idk if the domain would keep itself given it's a distortion in the Dao of an area.
 
How exactly does he erase himself from Gremmy's memory, like how does he activate the ability, how long does said effect to active etc. And can he do that before he gets EE'd or Death Manip'd by Gremmy?
He thinks and nobody around him remembers him. Considering Gremmy has no awareness of the clone to begin with, between that, invisibility and just not getting noticed before casting his domain from range, I think he can manage.
 
He thinks and nobody around him remembers him. Considering Gremmy has no awareness of the clone to begin with, between that, invisibility and just not getting noticed before casting his domain from range, I think he can manage.
Alright, i have a couple questions though.

1. If his main body is erased completely, like his body, mind, soul and fundamental information, would that affect his other body?

2. How in-character is it for his other body to do something like this?

Depends on his level of invisibility, Gremmy can see things which are invisible to people who can see invisible souls, and how exactly wouldn't he get noticed?, especially since Gremmy can sense energy in a AOE around him, he should be capable of sensing Ji Ning's stuff, unless said stuff his conceptual, in that case he wouldn't be capable of sensing it.
 
Alright, i have a couple questions though.

1. If his main body is erased completely, like his body, mind, soul and fundamental information, would that affect his other body?
Nah. They're fully separated. They share memories and thoughts but things in-universe that affect one's soul, body and truesoul (fundamental imprint of a being within the Ocean of Destiny) don't affect his Primaltwin at all.
2. How in-character is it for his other body to do something like this?
It doesn't happen that he's destroyed but he's not averse at all to stealth methods during combat. Seeing his main body obliterated would have him take the discrete option rather than face him head on, which anyone would do.
Depends on his level of invisibility, Gremmy can see things which are invisible to people who can see invisible souls, and how exactly wouldn't he get noticed?, especially since Gremmy can sense energy in a AOE around him, he should be capable of sensing Ji Ning's stuff, unless said stuff his conceptual, in that case he wouldn't be capable of sensing it.
He can hide himself from people with energy sensing (which is every cultivator at this rate). His stuff isn't conceptual though, so I guess the invisibility may not work. Though, he's saved by the memory erasure ability innate to cultivators.
 
... But that rubble is his own creation, no?
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Thats the stone they are fighting on, this is then Gremmy erasing part of it, so yes its his own creation.
 
Unmaking your own creations isn't EE...

Someone go downgrade Gremmy.
..........

What the **** are you talking about Ryu?

What do you mean by "unmaking his creations", he's "unmaking" them by erasing them from existence, it isn't that complicated.

Unless you're making the assumption it's only applicable against his creations, which isn't stated or shown to be true.
 
What do you mean by "unmaking his creations", he's "unmaking" them by erasing them from existence, it isn't that complicated.
Is there any statement actually saying that? Like, "Gremmy erased them out of existence"

If there is, sure. If there isn't, why are you assuming that he is using EE, rather than just dispelling his summons? And then you're assuming he can do that to those he didn't summon without actually having proof.
 
Is there any statement actually saying that? Like, "Gremmy erased them out of existence"

If there is, sure. If there isn't, why are you assuming that he is using EE, rather than just dispelling his summons? And then you're assuming he can do that to those he didn't summon without actually having proof.
Mate, did you even read bleach?
 
should still be EE, unmaking something or in Gremmy's case forgetting it's existence to erase it like he does to Lee is very clearly EE lmao.
 
I must ask though, is there a general statement of EE for Gremmy and all of his uses happen to be on his own creation or nah?
 
I must ask though, is there a general statement of EE for Gremmy and all of his uses happen to be on his own creation or nah?

It just so happens that the only two feats of "existence erasure" from Gremmy happens to be used against his own creations. There are no general statements from him about it.

As far as I'm aware it's never been implied that he could wipe out previously existing things just by thinking about it. Even when he tried to destroy the Seireitei and all its inhabitants, including Kenpachi, he tried dropping a meteor on them instead of simply erasing them.

One possibility may be though that Gremmy wouldn't erase them that way because his alterations to reality with the Visionary are usually temporary and if he stops imagining them, then they'll go away. Like how he imagined Yachiru's bones to be cookies then when he was distracted from her, her bones are no longer cookies. If he tried to erase a regular person's existence, then they may simply start existing again once he stops concentrating on them. (Stressing that this is just a possibility though)
 
Gremmy can obviously affect reality with his imagination, so i don't see how any of your arguments hold any value, about it only working "on his own creations"
The first thing he did, was death hax those two captains, they didn't become alive again, the thing with yachiru was true. But then you have gremmy saying that even if he was killed, the meteorite he imagined was already a reality.

And it's pretty obvious that gremmy wasn't the smartest user of his own ability, as he killed himself by accident.
So i don't really see how that matters either. The fight with kenpachi was like it was stated before, Gremmy just wanting to test his strength against Kenpachi. Which is also why he created the stage where they fought on, and gremmy obviously had respect for kenpachi.
Otherwise, kenpachi would just get imagined out of existence.
 
It just so happens that the only two feats of "existence erasure" from Gremmy happens to be used against his own creations. There are no general statements from him about it.
Oh no, I mean what the statement that gives him EE is, not statements on his use.
 
You could argue it both ways honestly
  1. That he can only erase his own creations as that's all we see him do
  2. That there's no reason for it to only apply to his own creations as his reality warping manipulates things he didn't create many times
Neither are a fact, but what is a fact is that it's on Gremmy's profile and fine to use until someone gets it removed
 
it's not logical to say he can only do it on his own creations, when his literal power is "anything i imagine becomes a reality" and when his power is shown to alter and affect reality, and not only his own creations.

If his power was only shown to affect his imaginary constructs, then i'd agree.
But that's not the case.
 
it's not logical to say he can only do it on his own creations, when his literal power is "anything i imagine becomes a reality" and when his power is shown to alter and affect reality, and not only his own creations.

If his power was only shown to affect his imaginary constructs, then i'd agree.
But that's not the case.
It's debatable which is why I personally think Gremmy should have a possibly or likely for the EE but that's just me.
 
Concept lock + grinding him to dust via Exaton danmaku.

Currently the discussion was at Primaltwin Ning being able to stealth Gremmy and lock him in place should his main body be obliterated. It was around Deceived's last post.

Well, that and whether or not it qualifies as EE and if it's a first move.
 
Concept lock + grinding him to dust via Exaton danmaku.

Currently the discussion was at Primaltwin Ning being able to stealth Gremmy and lock him in place should his main body be obliterated. It was around Deceived's last post.

Well, that and whether or not it qualifies as EE and if it's a first move.
What's stopping Gremmy from using EE on the primaltwin?

or from turning him into a garden chair
 
What's stopping Gremmy from using EE on the primaltwin?

or from turning him into a garden chair
The fact that he can erase himself from Gremmy's memory. Which me and Deceived were already debating above....
 
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