Gray vs Meliodas

[Dooyo]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/595690
There you have everything you need.

Yeah I know and again there is nothing close to Island level, first off, Island level start at 7 Gigatons, not 3 Gigatons, that is small island level

Also in NF, they refused brandish feat to be Island level, the calcer recognized his fault, see the comments below.

Same with Invel feat, we go with the mid end, not the high end, as he said so. ( I mean the calcer of the feat in NF ).

 

[Dooyo]

The Irene calcs meteor speed was recalculated to be sub-relativistic, following this there were three different results ranging from island to small country level, the low end was decided upon- island level- and the argument was made that since 2 other Spriggan already had island level feats: Brandish elevating an island and Invel freezing a fair portion of the landscape after Universe one (including the mountain on the backdrop) that island level spriggan was very much plausible and then this was used to scale the rest of the cast. Frankly I shouldn't be explaining this pls find the relevant threads and you'll get ur answers

You can't have KE with assumed timeframe, that wasn't been accepted, and Brandish feat wasn't Island level, it was city level, check again, the calcer in NF even refused the feat at the end, look at the comments, he recognized his mistake.

Same with Invel's feat.

 

[Blanked]

Her feat was calculated here as well and accepted when for Invel it's assumptions mostly,but we took high end since its constant with rest of feats and Irene's meteor and shrinking the entire fiore which is high 6-B.

 

[Dooyo]

the seed is what causes natural transforming but Natsu is still E.N.D only that his transformation can now occur only with opening the book or else without his demon side he would die since that's what keeps him alive connecting him to Zeref.
That calc is outdated because the speed is too low now go take a look at Fairy tail revision thread you have every thing there.

I will find it for you just a sec.

No, Natsu's seed is what trigger his END transformation, without it, END is gone, even Zeref stated that he must choose to " kill " or maintaining alive END, he choose to kill it.

Re read the chapter again, that is the conclusion that any reader come lol, that is pretty self-explanatory to be honest.

Still oudated doesn't that the calc is wrong, the method is right, using assumed timeframe for the kinetic energy of the meteor feat is not accepted because you can get continental feat which is obviously an outlier for anyone who is at least reasonable with himself.

 

[Davidsteel1]

Ok I won't pretend to even understand maths, but from what I understand the sub-relativistic speed was accepted because if the usual speed of a meteor was used in this calc that would suggest that the meteor took literally 5 hours to travel all the way from it initial start up point to Fiore. Like I said I barely understand maths, if u have an issue with anything being presented take it up with the person who proposed the upgrades all I can give u is half explanations and arguments.

 

[Dooyo]

Her feat was calculated here as well and accepted when for Invel it's assumptions mostly,but we took high end since its constant with rest of feats and Irene's meteor and shrinking the entire fiore which is high 6-B.

Her feat was calculated here indeed and accepted at city level, not island level.

Invel feat is a calc with assumption, we don't know how he performed his feat since it was off panel + how long it took him to do it + if it was a single attack or not.

We don't know since it was off panel hence why the assumption of the calc, for all this reasons, it is safe to go with the mid end, that is more reasonbale when you have too much assumption to beginning with.

Yes, she is high 6 B but with preparation, so it is useless in battle since the enemy will not wait her to lauch her Universe 1.

 

[Blanked]

It wasn't off panel and if you wanna discuss this do it with Aiden since he is more knowledgable about calcs than me.

For that chapter I already told you seeds cause the natural transformation, but if the book of E.N.D is opened Natsu will transform since the soul of a demon still resides within him and if the book is destroyed or Zeref dies he dies as well.

Saying that Natsu kills the demon is referred to his natural transformation not the book which is why Igneel said that book must never be opened.

 

[Dooyo]

Ok I won't pretend to even understand maths, but from what I understand the sub-relativistic speed was accepted because if the usual speed of a meteor was used in this calc that would suggest that the meteor took literally 5 hours to travel all the way from it initial start up point to Fiore. Like I said I barely understand maths, if u have an issue with anything being presented take it up with the person who proposed the upgrades all I can give u is half explanations and arguments.

I don't have any issue, just stating that the method used needed an assumed timeframe which is automatically not accepted since it's an assumptio, not a solid basis.

the meteor is sub relativistic yes, but when it enter the atmosphere, it slowed down due the friction force + you don't have any destructive feat to calc, zero environmental damage to base a calc.

 

[Davidsteel1]

^bruv like I said arguing with us here isn't going to get u anywhere, u want proper answers to ur questions? Then go ask Aiden he's the one with all the answers.

 

[Davidsteel1]

Can we pls get this thread back on track? We've completely derailed it.

 

[Bk2king]

Meliodas >>>> Galand >>>> Gray

 

[Davidsteel1]

^that isn't a legitimate reason. Pls give evidence as to y u believe Meliodas will win. And pls pay attention to the version of the characters being used

 

[Dooyo]

It wasn't off panel and if you wanna discuss this do it with Aiden since he is more knowledgable about calcs than me.
For that chapter I already told you seeds cause the natural transformation, but if the book of E.N.D is opened Natsu will transform since the soul of a demon still resides within him and if the book is destroyed or Zeref dies he dies as well.

Saying that Natsu kills the demon is referred to his natural transformation not the book which is why Igneel said that book must never be opened.

Yes, it was, show me Invel freeze those mountains in a single panel with him using his attack ? You can't, I already check it myself.

No, Natsu was an human at the origin, you talk like his soul was a demon's soul, like Mard geer.

Natsu has zero END soul, he has one soul and that is his own human soul.

No, don't try to twist the truth, Zeref stated clealy that he can kill END if he wish so, which is what he done in the recent chapter, the book doesn't trigger the transformation, the source of the transformation was the seed, now Zeref can't do anything, that is why Natsu said to Lucy that she doesn't need to worry since Zeref can destroy the book now, Natsu will not die since he is 100 % human ( no demon and no dragon ) just before his death.

 

[Dooyo]

@AidenBrooks999 ;

Explain to me how Irene is Island level please.

 

[Davidsteel1]

^honestly this is getting frustrating, pls can we stay on topic the repercussions of Natsu's decision will be addressed in the later chapters but for now no info is given. Pls stop arguing about something that is irrelevant to this thread. Thank you

 

[Davidsteel1]

@Dooyo not on this thread; that is not an argument or question to bring up here. God in heaven u seem hell bent on derailing this thread.

 

[Dooyo]

@Dooyo not on this thread; that is not an argument or question to bring up here. God in heaven u seem hell bent on derailing this thread.

But I can't access to the thread where the calc was done, it is blocked.

 

[Davidsteel1]

Y not try and reach him directly? I don't know like write on his wall or something

 

[Dooyo]

^honestly this is getting frustrating, pls can we stay on topic the repercussions of Natsu's decision will be addressed in the later chapters but for now no info is given. Pls stop arguing about something that is irrelevant to this thread. Thank you

Ok, the thread is about Meliodas vs Gray with their 7B form.

I already stated my stance on the matter as well as my vote, I guess I can move on.

 

[DocAnimeTheory]

@AidenBrooks999 ;
Explain to me how Irene is Island level please.

Just click the link on Irene's page.. Here's the accepted calculation for Irene's meteor for convenience. It has since been updated with new information and the low-end is now Large Island level.

 

[Delta3000]

Meliodas with mid difficulty

Reasons: 1) full counter and counter vanish deal with all of gray's ice attacks, full counter is especially effective since slayers are noted to be vunerable to having there own magic reflected back at them (it isn't a lethal weakness but still)

2) Mel utterly destroys gray in close combat because of his vastly superiour experience and skill.

 

[Blanked]

^slayers are weak against their own element? Just look at the battle between gray and his father he was standing perfectly with almost no damage even thou his attack was reflected. They can be damaged by their own attack but damage is low (on the other side Meliodas would get huge da,age by even one attack since he is a demon)and Gray uses attacks that usually can't be reflected since most of his attacks are actually solid objects or attacks underground (or he can just freeze him) and similar which he can't counter since he would just hit the ground anyway the second part is true.

 

[Pokémon_Trainer_Jacob]

Meliodas's Full Counter should be able to OHKO Gray, but Gray should also be able to OHKO Meliodas because of his Demon Slaying Magic....

I gotta give it to Mel because Full Counter > Anything Gray has to offer.

 

[Blanked]

^he can't use full counter on half stuff since Gray creates solid weapons and can attack from the point where Meliodas is standing.

 

[Gabriel_00]

Gray's profile says 7B against demons, so they should be equal and full counter + counter vanish and superior battle experience should give him the win (meliodas can full conter attack infused with magic)

 

[Blanked]

^its 6-C higher against demons version here.

An attack that comes from ground can't be redirected and he can't full counter freeze. So Gray freeze's him until Meliodas has time to use flames to unfreeze himself he gets a critical hit and it's over.

 

[Delta3000]

Yes so long as it is their the element they created themself for example Natsu cannot eat flames he has made himself and can be harmed by them; it's a slayers most noteworthy weakness and the reason Gray used his molding to direct the magic in silvers ice back at him in the first place.

Full CounterÒÇîÕà¿ÕÅìµÆâ (ÒâòÒâ½Òé½ÒéªÒâ│Òé┐Òâ╝) Zen Hangeki (Furukaunt─ü)ÒÇì: This ability allows Meliodas to reflect magic attacks aimed at him, back at the enemy, but with much greater power; therefore, the stronger the opponent's powers are, the rebound becomes. A prime drawback is that Meliodas cannot initiate attacks himself. He is also incapable of reflecting attacks if the opponent doesn't allow him to read the timing/nature of their attacks. Physical, indirect, and continuous attacks can also not be reflected.

The physical part of the description refers to attacks that have no magic in them; Meliodas es first use of full counter in the series was him rebounding Twigo's magically charged sword. So since Gray's ice constructs are made entirely out of magic they can definitely be reflected.

 

[Blanked]

^he is gonna get low damage just like silver did.

He can't counter freeze or dodge it since it covers huge area and with the time he needs to break devil slaying ice Gray attacks, critical hit in particular because of devil salyer boost damage and it's over and since he is busy melting the ice or breaking it, he can't use his counters.

 

[Gabriel_00]

His ice devil slayer key says 7B and meliodas can counter vanish the ice, he could even use full counter on non physical attack like king's status promotion

 

[Blanked]

That's a key added to specify the reason and later you have 6-C higher with demons (because of devil slaying magic) if you don't like how it's written complain to Aiden

 

[Blanked]

he could even use full counter on non physical attack like king's status promotion

It doesn't work on attacks like freeze.

 

[Delta3000]

Full counter rebounds attacks at double power, so the damage woun't be that low.

Mel's clones can.

 

[Blanked]

^actually yes since full counter modifies the attack which means that not purely Gray's ice attack.

Clones? If he uses one clone he is only at half power so he is much easier target.

 

[Delta3000]

It modifies the attack by doubling its power, all other properties including the ones Gray is vunerable to are unchanged. If we apply your logic to Natsu vs Zancrow, Zancrow would have taken low damage from the dragon god's brilliant flame spell but he was defeated.

By that logic so is Naruto when he spams his shadow clones.

 

[Blanked]

Actually that was because having the properties of God slaying magic he couldn't eat it and he got a direct hit, and I didn't say gray wouldn't get any damage plus it would happen once since he wouldn't spam if he knows it doesn't work.

And it's clearly said Meliodas creates a clone that has half of his power while he keeps half of power as well its not like clones in Naruto.

 

[Tk45]

Actually that was because having the properties of God slaying magic he couldn't eat it and he got a direct hit, and I didn't say gray wouldn't get any damage plus it would happen once since he wouldn't spam if he knows it doesn't work.
And it's clearly said Meliodas creates a clone that has half of his power while he keeps half of power as well its not like clones in Naruto.

Wrong, here's the official manga explanation:

http://www.***********.net/nanatsu-no-taizai/119/13

It effectively increases his power level by half, one clone has half his power level but he retains his full power level. If he has two clones his power level is the same and the clones are each equivalent to one quarter of his full power, etc etc. Meliodas's attack power is very high, and every ice projectile launched at Meliodas will be full countered(the physical part of it won't be, but the magic energy will be countered resulting in it getting sent flying back anyways since it's made of magic). Counter vanish could cause an ice weapon held by Gray to disappear or melt since it is sustained by magic. He's been said to be able to use counter vanish on stationary explosive orbs(they just exploded before he could use it though) so he could do it on a stationary magical weapon.

Even with equalized speed, Meliodas has far too high defense for Gray to overcome with being able to endure nuke-level blasts, and his clones combined with him having a sword allow him to outmatch Gray in melee combat. Not that he doesn't have hand to hand skill though as he showed skill against ban in the vaizel tournament despite having no weapon. Meliodas does a lot more damage than Gray does, Gray's punches aren't going to do shit, Gray has no real way to recover from any successful lethal blow by Meliodas while meliodas can endure tons of stab wounds due to his seven hearts. This is a definite win for Meliodas.

 

[Delta3000]

Put bluntly, your not getting my point at all; nowhere is it said that full counter changes the properties of the magic it reflects beyond doubling it's power and It is both stated and shown that slayers are vunerable to having their magic reflected back at them (mostly because they cannot eat it). If gray's use of ice devil slayer magic is limited that puts him at a disavantage.

Not entirely true; the caster of the clone jutsu divides their chakra amoungst the the clones and could easily give half of their chakra to one of them if they so desired.

 

[Davidsteel1]

@delta actually ur not entirely accurate urself, true slayers cannot consume elements they create but it doesn't mean that it is effective, silver actually mentions it when Gray does as u say and uses his ice against him he does admit that he cannot consume his ice but he does mention immediately afterwards that he is still resistant. So it's he can't use his proper default defence but it doesn't do as much damage as it could

 

[Delta3000]

I am aware that Gray will be resistant because the attack is ice but even if the attack doesn't do much damage it could still give Mel an opening to attack and we can all agree gray isn't resistant to being stabbed, slashed or dismembered with a sword.

 

[Davidsteel1]

^no that isn't wrong, I just felt it necessary to draw ur attention to the flaw in ur initial point.