(GRACE) Kizaru (Borsalino) VS Kozuki Oden

[TauanVictor]

Kizaru (Borsalino) VS Kozuki Oden​

• Fight Location: Wano Country
• Starting Distance: 10m
• Both in-character

Kizaru: 1 (@Kidkinsey)
Oden: 8 (@Purgy, @WrongIdea21, @StrawHatArslan, @Milly_Rocking_Bandit, @Bernkastelll, @Eseseso, @FluffyCreatureZ, @MonkeyOfLife)
Inconclusive:

 

[Dir333]

Can you link their pages???

 

[TauanVictor]

Can you link their pages???

It's in the names.

 

[KingTempest]

Can you link their pages???

Kizaru:
Oden:

 

[Kidkinsey]

Kizaru blinds him then snipes with lasers

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Yeah kizaru claps for reason above.

 

[Purgy]

Oden has higher AP and far better CoA showings

Oden after returning to Wano > Oden before returning = Primebeard > Marineford Whitebeard >= Kizaru

Oden cut through Kaido with ease and gave him a permanent scar whereas Luffy had to learn Adv CoC to do any significant damage

Kizaru's saving grace is his devil fruit here, but honestly, he's likely to just create a light sword and try to fight Oden like he did with Rayleigh.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Oden has higher AP and far better CoA showings

Oden after returning to Wano > Oden before returning = Primebeard > Marineford Whitebeard >= Kizaru

Oden cut through Kaido with ease and gave him a permanent scar whereas Luffy had to learn Adv CoC to do any significant damage

Kizaru's saving grace is his devil fruit here, but honestly, he's likely to just create a light sword and try to fight Oden like he did with Rayleigh.

marine ford whitebeard = prime white beard. That kaido was way weaker than now.

 

[Purgy]

marine ford whitebeard = prime white beard. That kaido was way weaker than now.

No, Primebeard = Old Whitebeard > Marineford Whitebeard

It's literally on his profile

No evidence that Kaido was way weaker, in fact, Whitebeard suggests otherwise when he compares Oden to the Rocks Pirates members, which includes Kaido, that Oden was comparable to Primebeard.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

No, Primebeard = Old Whitebeard > Marineford Whitebeard

It's literally on his profile

No evidence that Kaido was way weaker, in fact, Whitebeard suggests otherwise when he compares Oden to the Rocks Pirates members, which includes Kaido, that Oden was comparable to Primebeard.

oh ok, that's what I meant. but oden shouldn't be = prime white beard, white beard actually slapped him the first time they fought without haki.
Kaido was weaker, sengoku literally says so, and btw oden was relative to that weaker kaido since he did fight him other times other than their final fight were he gave him the scar.

 

[Eminiteable]

white beard actually slapped him the first time they fought without haki.

Never happened in the manga.

 

[Purgy]

oh ok, that's what I meant. but oden shouldn't be = prime white beard, white beard actually slapped him the first time they fought without haki.
Kaido was weaker, sengoku literally says so, and btw oden was relative to that weaker kaido since he did fight him other times other than their final fight were he gave him the scar.

Oden being comparable to Primebeard is accepted, make a CRT if you think otherwise, he also took a named attack from Roger with minor injuries, he definitely scales to Primebeard.

Sengoku said he was weaker while he was a Cabin Boy on the Rocks Pirates, not the one Oden fought iirc.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Never happened in the manga.

I thought we used extended anime scenes?

Oden being comparable to Primebeard is accepted, make a CRT if you think otherwise, he also took a named attack from Roger with minor injuries, he definitely scales to Primebeard.

Sengoku said he was weaker while he was a Cabin Boy on the Rocks Pirates, not the one Oden fought iirc.

No. Oden did take serious damage from roger, he was bleeding badly, but he just has really good endurance so he could still fight, that doesn't mean he should scale to whitebeard though. Sengoku was referring to when kaido was with the rocks pirates.

 

[Purgy]

I thought we used extended anime scenes?

No. Oden did take serious damage from roger, he was bleeding badly, but he just has really good endurance so he could still fight, that doesn't mean he should scale to whitebeard though. Sengoku was referring to when kaido was with the rocks pirates.

Again, it's accepted that Oden scales to Primebeard, make a CRT to remove it before arguing for it in VS Threads

Blatant lie, Oden was barely bleeding, he got straight back up and ran towards Roger again.

Shown comparable to Primebeard and survived a named attack from Roger with minor injuries, there's no argument to say he isn't relative to them.

 

[Eminiteable]

thought we used extended anime scenes?

Nope

 

[WrongIdea21]

Oden Fra

 

[Bernkastelll]

Just a question, does Kizaru stamina scales to Akainu and Aokiji? if not, I think Oden also have advantage in stamina due fighting for several days without resting, staying several daysg grabbed in White Beard ship, staying 1 hour in an extreme heat higher than 700 celsius while holding all his comrades

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Nope

I see.

Again, it's accepted that Oden scales to Primebeard, make a CRT to remove it before arguing for it in VS Threads

Blatant lie, Oden was barely bleeding, he got straight back up and ran towards Roger again.

Shown comparable to Primebeard and survived a named attack from Roger with minor injuries, there's no argument to say he isn't relative to them.

Okay then oden = whitebeard. but oden was definitely bleeding badly from his mouth and head when roger hit him, this is not a minor injury.
I think kizaru will win because he can durability negate with lazers, range, danmaku, and better observation haki.

 

[Purgy]

Okay then oden = whitebeard. but oden was definitely bleeding badly from his mouth and head when roger hit him, this is not a minor injury.
I think kizaru will win because he can durability negate with lazers, range, danmaku, and better observation haki.

Technically, Oden > Primebeard

It was Pre-Wano Return Oden that matched Primebeard and took that hit from Roger, and it was stated that Oden became much stronger after returning.

As I said, Kizaru will most likely create a lightsword to fight Oden the same way he did to fight Rayleigh

Lasers get negged by superior CoA, assuming Kizaru even uses them instead of fighting Oden the same way he did Rayleigh.

How is Kizaru's observation haki better? They both have zero feats with it

 

[Bernkastelll]

Just a question, does Kizaru stamina scales to Akainu and Aokiji? if not, I think Oden also have advantage in stamina due fighting for several days without resting, staying several daysg grabbed in White Beard ship, staying 1 hour in an extreme heat higher than 700 celsius while holding all his comrades

~

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Technically, Oden > Primebeard

It was Pre-Wano Return Oden that matched Primebeard and took that hit from Roger, and it was stated that Oden became much stronger after returning.

As I said, Kizaru will most likely create a lightsword to fight Oden the same way he did to fight Rayleigh

Lasers get negged by superior CoA, assuming Kizaru even uses them instead of fighting Oden the same way he did Rayleigh.

How is Kizaru's observation haki better? They both have zero feats with it

How? They are able to effect whitebeard so that's clearly not true, haki only increases his durability, but kizaru negates it. if kizaru goes for the light sword and realizes he has an AP disadvantage, he'll do what he did with marco. profile says so.

~

profile I think scales him to akainu and aokiji, he also is equal to their strength so he should scale.

 

[Purgy]

~

There was a thread to prohibit scaling stamina between characters like this

So Kizaru's stamina is as good as his marineford feats I guess.

 

[Bernkastelll]

There was a thread to prohibit scaling stamina between characters like this

So Kizaru's stamina is as good as his marineford feats I guess.

Aight, then Oden also have better Stamina feats than Kizaru

 

[Purgy]

How? They are able to effect whitebeard so that's clearly not true, haki only increases his durability, but kizaru negates it. if kizaru goes for the light sword and realizes he has an AP disadvantage, he'll do what he did with marco. profile says so.

profile I think scales him to akainu and aokiji, he also is equal to their strength so he should scale.

They're able to effect Marineford Whitebeard who could barely use Haki without having a heart attack.

Where does Kizaru's profile say that?

And who's to say he'd have the chance to realize he's at a disadvantage before Oden beats him?

 

[Eseseso]

Oden FRA

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

There was a thread to prohibit scaling stamina between characters like this

So Kizaru's stamina is as good as his marineford feats I guess.

oh then oden should outlast.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

They're able to effect Marineford Whitebeard who could barely use Haki without having a heart attack.

Where does Kizaru's profile say that?

And who's to say he'd have the chance to realize he's at a disadvantage before Oden beats him?

it doesn't matter it's durability negation. he does have a chance to realize, he can retreat at SOL.

 

[Purgy]

it doesn't matter it's durability negation. he does have a chance to realize, he can retreat at SOL.

CoA negates devil fruit abilities

Oden has superior CoA feats, far superior actually, Kizaru's best and only feat in this regard is the barrier he created alongside the other two admirals iirc, but in terms of potency, Oden's is far greater.

 

[Bernkastelll]

What is CoA again?

 

[Purgy]

What is CoA again?

Busoshoku Haki

 

[Bernkastelll]

Busoshoku Haki

ty

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

CoA negates devil fruit abilities

Oden has superior CoA feats, far superior actually, Kizaru's best and only feat in this regard is the barrier he created alongside the other two admirals iirc, but in terms of potency, Oden's is far greater.

I thought armament only forced users to bypass devil fruit resistances and negate intangibility, not negate AP attacks, haki doesn't work like seastone. Kizaru attacks with lazers so how is oden going to nullify that?

 

[Purgy]

I thought armament only forced users to bypass devil fruit resistances and negate intangibility, not negate AP attacks, haki doesn't work like seastone. Kizaru attacks with lazers so how is oden going to nullify that?

It's clearly shown on multiple occasions that Haki negates devil fruit abilities to an extent

This was shown by Doflamingo vs Law, Vergo vs Law, Law vs Big Mom and Kaido etc

It's also accepted on the Haki page;

Rudimentary Haki Users: Haki users of this level are capable of actively using the basic functions of this form of Haki as descibed above. They can coat their entire body with an invisible wall that increases defenses and attack power while subtly increasing range. They can actively attack those with the ability to turn their physical body into other materials such as ice or smoke (typically Logia Devil Fruit Users), and mitigate the effects of Devil Fruit attacks. This invisible armor can further be extended to projectiles and weapons to increase their attack power. At best, a character may be capable of utilizing Busoshoku: Koka, an ability that allows the user to increase the hardness of their body to become even more durable than steel. However, most users of this class are only seen capable of using Koka on small parts of their body at a time (typically both fists and fore-arms at most).

So Oden with his far superior CoA should be able to block the lasers

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

It's clearly shown on multiple occasions that Haki negates devil fruit abilities to an extent

This was shown by Doflamingo vs Law, Vergo vs Law, Law vs Big Mom and Kaido etc

It's also accepted on the Haki page;

So Oden with his far superior CoA should be able to block the lasers

Can you give examples you are talking about.

 

[Purgy]

Can you give examples you are talking about.

I did

Law was unable to cut Doflamingo in his room while Doflaming was blocking with CoA

Doflaming and Vergo thought that he wouldn't be able to cut Vergo either, but it turned out that Law's CoA was superior to Vergo's.

Law couldn't teleport Big Mom or Kaido while inside his room because of their Haki.

And it's accepted on the Haki page that CoA mitigates devil fruit attacks.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I did

Law was unable to cut Doflamingo in his room while Doflaming was blocking with CoA

Doflaming and Vergo thought that he wouldn't be able to cut Vergo either, but it turned out that Law's CoA was superior to Vergo's.

Law couldn't teleport Big Mom or Kaido while inside his room because of their Haki.

And it's accepted on the Haki page that CoA mitigates devil fruit attacks.

But all those example are with law, for example luffy punches a dude using haki but his rubber doesn't get negated, same idea with kiaru, he just creates a lazer which is Ap too.

 

[Purgy]

But all those example are with law, for example luffy punches a dude using haki but his rubber doesn't get negated, same idea with kiaru, he just creates a lazer which is Ap too.

You're equating Luffy physically punching someone to Kizaru's lasers which are made entirely of his devil fruit, light.

And it's accepted on the Haki page, so, accept it or change it.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

You're equating Luffy physically punching someone to Kizaru's lasers which are made entirely of his devil fruit, light.

And it's accepted on the Haki page, so, accept it or change it.

Haki is only accepted to resist spatial manipulation which are on the page, but not anything else. Law's fruit is the only one which works that way. Does ace get negged everytime he tries to use fire against a haki user?

 

[Purgy]

Haki is only accepted to resist spatial manipulation which are on the page, but not anything else. Law's fruit is the only one which works that way. Does ace get negged everytime he tries to use fire against a haki user?

I literally quoted the Haki page for you

Rudimentary Haki Users: Haki users of this level are capable of actively using the basic functions of this form of Haki as descibed above. They can coat their entire body with an invisible wall that increases defenses and attack power while subtly increasing range. They can actively attack those with the ability to turn their physical body into other materials such as ice or smoke (typically Logia Devil Fruit Users), and mitigate the effects of Devil Fruit attacks.

It directly says Haki is accepted to mitigate devil fruit attacks, which is exactly what Kizaru's lasers are.

As for your strawman with Ace, yes, if his opponent had vastly superior CoA to him, they'd be able to withstand his fire attacks.

Kinda like how strong Haki users can fight and withstand Akainu's magma even though it melts steel from a dozen feet away

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I literally quoted the Haki page for you

It directly says Haki is accepted to mitigate devil fruit attacks, which is exactly what Kizaru's lasers are.

As for your strawman with Ace, yes, if his opponent had vastly superior CoA to him, they'd be able to withstand his fire attacks.

Kinda like how strong Haki users can fight and withstand Akainu's magma even though it melts steel from a dozen feet away

The haki page only says that they resist spatial manipulation.
Ace example is not a straw man, ace has rudimentary haki yet somehow can cancel out aokiji's attacks, also "Although weaker than Whitebeard, he could consistently leave burns on his body during his earlier days as a pirate, showing that he shouldn't be too inferior from his durability." ace can burn whitebeard, who has like 500x better haki, so how does haki makes you resist this? same case here with kizaru.
Akainu's magma can be withstood by characters who literally have no haki like luffy.