Gotta Revise 'Em All, Part 2: Getting to work

[Omegabronic]

Did I disagree with that?

I'm asking you to prove the player interacted with any 4D thing in the fight

oh i see, i don't agree with that either, what i meant by "higher dimensional tier" is that the player would be tier 2, sorry for the confusion lol

Just as I'm asking of proof of player interacting with 4D/5D and you can't do so?

i was strictly talking about the power/tier not the dimensionality, read above, again sorry for the confusion lol

Again. Did Arceus use the plates to do anything of that sorts?
No he didn't. He did?

Prove it. It's that simple

NB: I'm completely against anyone scaling to low 1C and I'll oppose it for as long as you push it.

i mean, he is empowering himself with the plate, therefore he is using its power, that is a common power of the plate, i think it is logical, let us agree to disagree then

 

[CloverDragon03]

No they do not. The CT that fight the player aren't 4D.

They're all 3D beings. Honestly, that stuff that the CT have some form of abstract form is complete headcannon that I plan to downgrade/remove some time this year. Completely trashed and contradicted with the Origin Forms which are mentioned to be their true forms

No, Arceus is a 3D being like everyone else. Nowhere was it mentioned he has an infinitely superior physiology unless you can prove it here. I'll wait
No, the basis for 5D is that Arceus can use his plates to negate/block attacks with his plates, or anything that he can dish out from his plates basically, which is the source of power he used to create his transcendent realm

Something he never did when he fought the player. So I disagree for logical reasons here

You did not just say Arceus is 3D…

Prove that the “needs the Plates” limitation from the PIS-filled Jewel of Life movie is present beyond that movie

 

[Sniper670]

You did not just say Arceus is 3D…

Prove that the “needs the Plates” limitation from the PIS-filled Jewel of Life movie is present beyond that movie

I can't prove a negative. When Arceus said his realm Transcends the cosmology did he say anything about the nature of his existence? No.

As I mentioned, there are hints what we see is not his true existence, even ignoring the Heart, but the thing we see fight the player does not have a physiology more complex than the basic 3D that everyone in Pokemon have.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I can't prove a negative. When Arceus said his realm Transcends the cosmology did he say anything about the nature of his existence? No.

As I mentioned, there are hints what we see is not his true existence, even ignoring the Heart, but the thing we see fight the player does not have a physiology more complex than the basic 3D that everyone in Pokemon have.

I’m not asking to prove a negative. The negative would be that the “needs the Plates” limitation does not exist outside the movie

Regardless, that limitation was created specifically for the movie, just to make sure movie Arceus wasn’t too broken for the plot. The fact that you’re trying to extend such PIS to being a legitimate thing outside the movie is baffling to me

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I also agree that the plates thing being applied outside the movie is a bit strange. I also don't see how the plates would limit him being Low 1-C or not regardless, since he didn't have the plates during his fight in PLA, no? (Reminder, his justification for being Low 1-C in the profile has nothing to do with his plates; he is stated to be Low 1-C because of his transcending nature even in regards to the creation trio, existing/residing in his dimension that is beyond space and time)

 

[Sniper670]

I’m not asking to prove a negative. The negative would be that the “needs the Plates” limitation does not exist outside the movie

Regardless, that limitation was created specifically for the movie, just to make sure movie Arceus wasn’t too broken for the plot. The fact that you’re trying to extend such PIS to being a legitimate thing outside the movie is baffling to me

I'm not extending any pis here. And you didn't get what I said.

The Arceus the player fought was simply testing the player with 0 indication that Arceus was using power beyond the 3D that fodder Pokémon can use.

You're extending the 3D/4D power of Pokémon beyond what it's been showed.

Arceus could've negated all their attacks, he did not. He could've erased them, he did not, he could've fainted them without fighting them, he did not. He simply fought the player on the player's level, not on his own level. There's nothing implying Arceus was using the kind of power you're imposing here to test a character who is far inferior to it

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm not extending any pis here. And you didn't get what I said.

The Arceus the player fought was simply testing the player with 0 indication that Arceus was using power beyond the 3D that fodder Pokémon can use.

You're extending the 3D/4D power of Pokémon beyond what it's been showed.

Arceus could've negated all their attacks, he did not. He could've erased them, he did not, he could've fainted them without fighting them, he did not. He simply fought the player on the player's level, not on his own level. There's nothing implying Arceus was using the kind of power you're imposing here to test a character who is far inferior to it

Just saying you’re not is far from convincing. And Arceus even uses the Legend Plate whenever you send out a Pokémon against it.

And again, even if you’re hypothetically correct, what’s the excuse for the out of control Origin Dialga/Palkia that the player could take hits from?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I'm not extending any pis here. And you didn't get what I said.

The Arceus the player fought was simply testing the player with 0 indication that Arceus was using power beyond the 3D that fodder Pokémon can use.

You're extending the 3D/4D power of Pokémon beyond what it's been showed.

Arceus could've negated all their attacks, he did not. He could've erased them, he did not, he could've fainted them without fighting them, he did not. He simply fought the player on the player's level, not on his own level. There's nothing implying Arceus was using the kind of power you're imposing here to test a character who is far inferior to it

"Testing the player" doesn't necessarily mean he was making himself weaker. You would have to prove that.

He didn't use some of his haxes. So? You are making a positive claim, prove he was making himself weaker for some reason. (Despite the fact, to my understanding, he wants to reward the player; what reward, fighting something that's apparently even below the creation trio)

 

[CloverDragon03]

Not even mentioning the fact that even if you’re 3-D, you can have 4-D or even 5-D AP

 

[Ego]

I'm pretty positive Arceus should be 5D instead of 3D and the CT and Lake trio should be 4D

 

[Ego]

Nobody really cares about the lake trio actually

 

[Ego]

Not even mentioning the fact that even if you’re 3-D, you can have 4-D or even 5-D AP

Yeah I mean look at Thanos

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I'm pretty positive Arceus should be 5D instead of 3D and the CT and Lake trio should be 4D

They are. Sniper is claiming that the peeps the player fight in Eternal Battle Reverie are weaker because Arceus for some reason wants to limit himself to "test" the player. (Even though one can use the test argument as support in the first place, since the player already beat Giratina, so Arceus testing it with the same power the player already defeated is stupid as hell)

 

[Sniper670]

"Testing the player" doesn't necessarily mean he was making himself weaker. You would have to prove that.

He didn't use some of his haxes. So? You are making a positive claim, prove he was making himself weaker for some reason. (Despite the fact, to my understanding, he wants to reward the player; what reward, fighting something that's apparently even below the creation trio)

Both arguments are incredibly silly and quite frankly hilarious.

Yes. He weakened himself. Proof?
1. He could've simply negated all the players hax if he wanted or take away their powers
2. Erased the player and Pokémon
3. Fainted them without lifting a finger

Didn't i mention these already?

Who is the omnipotent being here and who runs the entire show here? The player and his not even close to country level Pikachu?

How does he go from around 7C to low 1C with ZERO proof of any sort of power jump whatsoever.

Yes Arceus tested the player. Also partly why he can keep fighting the player in EBR for as long as the player wants and has all the power to make that happen. Why would he do that if he's constantly being harmed and defeated by the player realistically. Answer, unless whatever the player does is meaningless to him. You proved yourself, neat. Let's do it again.

In which way, shape or form did you seriously think that player and his silly Pokémon were even remotely close to low 1C

Prove it here and now that the player fought on a power level comparable to Arceus and not Arceus fighting the player comparable to that player.

Especially when his showings has all the more proof the the player is a vastly inferior being to Arceus

I'm not buying any nonsense that the player scales

No one does

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

"Arceus should be unbeatable! So no one can scale regardless of showing!"

Same bullshit we used to say to not scale people to legendaries.

My proof that the player scales? He fought Arceus. Prove he weakened his power, his hax is irrelevant.

 

[Ego]

Both arguments are incredibly silly and quite frankly hilarious.

Yes. He weakened himself. Proof?
1. He could've simply negated all the players hax if he wanted or take away their powers
2. Erased the player and Pokémon
3. Fainted them without lifting a finger

Didn't i mention these already?

Who is the omnipotent being here and who runs the entire show here? The player and his not even close to country level Pikachu?

How does he go from around 7C to low 1C with ZERO proof of any sort of power jump whatsoever.

Yes Arceus tested the player. Also partly why he can keep fighting the player in EBR for as long as the player wants and has all the power to make that happen. Why would he do that if he's constantly being harmed and defeated by the player realistically. Answer, unless whatever the player does is meaningless to him. You proved yourself, neat. Let's do it again.

In which way, shape or form did you seriously think that player and his silly Pokémon were even remotely close to low 1C

Prove it here and now that the player fought on a power level comparable to Arceus and not Arceus fighting the player comparable to that player.

Especially when his showings has all the more proof the the player is a vastly inferior being to Arceus

I'm not buying any nonsense that the player scales

No one does

I'm sorry but why calling out Arceus combat ability when Arceus wanted to test how powerful the player is

 

[Sniper670]

"Arceus should be unbeatable! So no one can scale regardless of showing!"

Same bullshit we used to say to not scale people to legendaries

My proof that the player scales? He fought Arceus. Prove he weakened his power, his hax is irrelevant.

My proof that that that he nerfed himself? Several showings of his in several media shows that he could've negated the players powers stomped the player without batting an eye.

Are you going to argue with this?

 

[Sniper670]

I'm sorry but why calling out Arceus combat ability when Arceus wanted to test how powerful the player is

Rephrase

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Ah, so you can't prove it within PLA itself. That tells me everything I need to know.

Anyways: Arceus wants to reward the player of his deeds, setting up a battle arena to test his strength. Eventually, Arceus wants to fight personally himself, and the player does. There you go, reason for scale.

 

[Sniper670]

Ah, so you can't prove it within PLA itself. That tells me everything I need to know.

Ahh, those are not canon anymore?

What is this argument of yours?

Anyways: Arceus wants to reward the player of his deeds, setting up a battle arena to test his strength. Eventually, Arceus wants to fight personally himself, and the player does. There you go, reason for scale.

Unfortunately he fights the player on the player's level and refrains from using powers he could've used to beat the player very easily.

So there's no scaling here at all

 

[CloverDragon03]

Both arguments are incredibly silly and quite frankly hilarious.

Yes. He weakened himself. Proof?
1. He could've simply negated all the players hax if he wanted or take away their powers
2. Erased the player and Pokémon
3. Fainted them without lifting a finger

Didn't i mention these already?

Who is the omnipotent being here and who runs the entire show here? The player and his not even close to country level Pikachu?

How does he go from around 7C to low 1C with ZERO proof of any sort of power jump whatsoever.

Yes Arceus tested the player. Also partly why he can keep fighting the player in EBR for as long as the player wants and has all the power to make that happen. Why would he do that if he's constantly being harmed and defeated by the player realistically. Answer, unless whatever the player does is meaningless to him. You proved yourself, neat. Let's do it again.

In which way, shape or form did you seriously think that player and his silly Pokémon were even remotely close to low 1C

Prove it here and now that the player fought on a power level comparable to Arceus and not Arceus fighting the player comparable to that player.

Especially when his showings has all the more proof the the player is a vastly inferior being to Arceus

I'm not buying any nonsense that the player scales

No one does

So…

Argument from incredulity, got it

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Ahh, those are not canon anymore?

What is this argument of yours?

It means you can't prove he limited his power. Again, his hax is irrelevant. Of course he doesn't want to kill the player, you said it yourself. He is testing him (and also as the game stated, rewarding his deeds).

You cannot prove he limits that. And the fact you need to introduce so much bullshit just to support your bias tells me everything.

Regardless, we will argue this more in depth when you actually downgrade Arceus' Low 1-C striking strength/we make the PLA profiles.

 

[CloverDragon03]

This thread is based on applying what is already accepted to a cross-scaling split. Changing anything about the Creation Trio or Arceus probably requires its own thread since they are unaffected by the split

 

[Ego]

This thread is based on applying what is already accepted to a cross-scaling split. Changing anything about the Creation Trio or Arceus probably requires its own thread since they are unaffected by the split

Resistance to downgrades on their profile via unaffected by canon split

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

This thread is based on applying what is already accepted to a cross-scaling split. Changing anything about the Creation Trio or Arceus probably requires its own thread since they are unaffected by the split

Indeed

 

[Sniper670]

It means you can't prove he limited his power. Again, his hax is irrelevant. Of course he doesn't want to kill the player, you said it yourself. He is testing him (and also as the game stated, rewarding his deeds).

I did. He limited himself and I proved it no?

He didn't go all out. Did I or did I not prove that.

Ans going by his status and showings, it becomes too clear

You cannot prove he limits that. And the fact you need to introduce so much bullshit just to support your bias tells me everything.

The player who couldn't beat nobel Pokémon and couldn't beat the Origin Forms of Dialga/Palkia and can only calm them down is now low 1C. And these were blessed by Arceus

Complete BS. When it's implied Arceus didn't go all out and is simply testing the player, that's all.

There ZERO indication the player went from 7C to low 1C

ZERO

Regardless, we will argue this more in depth when you actually downgrade Arceus' Low 1-C striking strength/we make the PLA profiles.

This is nonsense.

I'll just reach out to my old thread and have it edited. Just a minor change

 

[y3p_owo]

Both arguments are incredibly silly and quite frankly hilarious.

Yes. He weakened himself. Proof?
1. He could've simply negated all the players hax if he wanted or take away their powers
2. Erased the player and Pokémon
3. Fainted them without lifting a finger

Ok, that doesn't mean he weakened himself. It just means he doesn't want to kill him. That's two different things.

Didn't i mention these already?

Who is the omnipotent being here and who runs the entire show here? The player and his not even close to country level Pikachu?

How does he go from around 7C to low 1C with ZERO proof of any sort of power jump whatsoever.

You mean the same player who fought and defeated Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina? With one of the first two being in their Origin Form?

I close out this comment with this: Arceus not using his haxs on the player is irrelevant. You can refuse to use haxs and still be fighting without holding back your power.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Resistance to downgrades on their profile via unaffected by canon split

 

[Sniper670]

I did. He limited himself and I proved it no?

He didn't go all out. Did I or did I not prove that.

Ans going by his status and showings, it becomes too clear

The player who couldn't beat nobel Pokémon and couldn't beat the Origin Forms of Dialga/Palkia and can only calm them down is now low 1C. And these were blessed by Arceus

Complete BS. When it's implied Arceus didn't go all out and is simply testing the player, that's all.

There ZERO indication the player went from 7C to low 1C

ZERO

This is nonsense.

I'll just reach out to my old thread and have it edited. Just a minor change

@y3p_owo

 

[y3p_owo]

The player who couldn't beat nobel Pokémon and couldn't beat the Origin Forms of Dialga/Palkia and can only calm them down is now low 1C. And these were blessed by Arceus

Their Pokémon are able to fight them and they're able to take hits from them.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

This is nonsense.

I'll just reach out to my old thread and have it edited. Just a minor change

The creation trio thread no supporter cares about? I mean, if you want. Though honestly a new one would be better, since it is a different topic.

 

[Sniper670]

This thread is based on applying what is already accepted to a cross-scaling split. Changing anything about the Creation Trio or Arceus probably requires its own thread since they are unaffected by the split

Good. You make a crt.

I'm only reaching out to edit it with what I proposed.

If you want to make a crt to make player low 1C, make a crt. And I'll meet you there with Iamunanimousinthat and others.

Good luck everyone

 

[CloverDragon03]

That’s the least of my worries anyway, the player doesn’t even have a profile

 

[y3p_owo]

Anyways, I'm getting late for Church.

Laters.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

That’s the least of my worries anyway

Same

I care way more that we finish what already started on this thread, particularly if we decided how we gonna scale the legendaries.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I think the consensus atm is that most legendaries with unknown scales will be "At least 6-C" in the games.

Btw Regigigas will be Low 6-B via its towing the continents feat

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I think the consensus atm is that most legendaries with unknown scales will be "At least 6-C" in the games.

So we still gonna just scale them above final evolutions and be done with it, huh? As I stated previously, I don't particularly agree with that approach, but if majority decide on that it is what it is.

Edit: Wouldn't it be better as "Unknown, likely 6-C"? Then it at least acknowledges that they don't actually have a feat, but still notes how their legendary status suggests their power at least is above the common 'mon.

 

[Sniper670]

Their Pokémon are able to fight them and they're able to take hits from them.

Make low 1C player thread, and I'll meet you there

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Make low 1C player thread, and I'll meet you there

Player no have profile, so it no matter

 

[CloverDragon03]

So we still gonna just scale them above final evolutions and be done with it, huh? As I stated previously, I don't particularly agree with that approach, but if majority decide on that it is what it is.

Edit: Wouldn't it be better as "Unknown, likely 6-C"? Then it at least acknowledges that they don't actually have a feat, but still notes how their legendary status suggests their power at least is above the common 'mon.

The portrayal of legendary Pokemon is that they're stronger than your average Pokemon. In many cases, that strength is what sparks legends about them to begin with.