Goku vs Gohan

[Gohanblanco217]

Gohan can't sense god ki, in which all of the characters in the series at that level with the exception of Broly and Cell Max use God Ki, and Goku scales far above both of them

No need to act like Gohan was talking out of his ass because he clearly wasn't, Goku faught Jiren who doesn't have god ki so that's more than enough proof

 

[SlendVeny]

Exactly, and this should AT THE MINIMUM scale them above Moro Arc MUI Goku. However, with Base Goku now scaling to Base Broly, I'm not 100% sure who the strongest is. Probably Broly, since his LSSJ is a really high multiplier.

 

[SlendVeny]

one shotting Blue Goku and Vegeta is nothing impressive compared to MUI Goku

also considering how Orange Piccolo is stated to be on par with them, not 1 shotting them

On par with THEM AS A WHOLE, not their Blue forms.

 

[Mickey1940]

On par with THEM AS A WHOLE, not their Blue forms.

this contradicts the fact that Cell Max is stated to be stronger than Broly, who's a degree of magnitude weaker than MUI Goku, and both Gammas couldn't even scratch him without hitting his weak point

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Also why making a spite match with a winner in mind anyway ? Either way it should be closed

 

[Mickey1940]

No need to act like Gohan was talking out of his ass because he clearly wasn't, Goku faught Jiren who doesn't have god ki so that's more than enough proof

you're still ignoring the fact that Gohan doesn't have any scaling to suggest he's stronger than Cell Max at his best, since he's literally only interacted with Cell Max at his worst

 

[Gohanblanco217]

you're still ignoring the fact that Gohan doesn't have any scaling to suggest he's stronger than Cell Max at his best, since he's literally only interacted with Cell Max at his worst

And after Gohan faught Cell max at his worst he was still able to tell Goku would be defeated

 

[Mickey1940]

Also why making a spite match with a winner in mind anyway ? Either way it should be closed

You know what, you're right
As an OP I can't vote anyways

I'll just count your guy's votes cuz it's pretty clear I can't change your minds

 

[Mickey1940]

And after Gohan faught Cell max at his worst he was still able to tell Goku would be defeated

First of all that's not what he said

Second of all that still doesn't give enough evidence that Gohan would have won if Cell Max was at his beat

Even at his best, Cell Max was nearly beaten down by a bunch of High 4Cs since he was a mindless blundering berserker. With his Broly scaling making him already weaker than Goku, what makes you think Goku would lose besides statements that contradict his feats?

 

[SlendVeny]

this contradicts the fact that Cell Max is stated to be stronger than Broly, who's a degree of magnitude weaker than MUI Goku, and both Gammas couldn't even scratch him without hitting his weak point

Broly in this movie is equivalent to Goku Base-to-Base, so I would say Broly is stronger than MUI Goku, since his LSSJ is the equivalent of going from below SSJ God Vegeta level to nearly SSJB Gogeta level.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

once again, Jiren won against Gohan on this wiki, and Goku beat Jiren

Once again, that match is outdated and was removed

Also comparing separate VSBW matches to determine who wins is a nono. Give an actually viable reasoning

 

[Mickey1940]

Once again, that match is outdated and was removed

Also comparing separate VSBW matches to determine who wins is a nono. Give an actually viable reasoning

The scaling and reasoning doesn't change

And the viable reasoning is that Goku scales above Jiren whom even in base can stomp Gods of Destruction, while Gohan's only feat is beating an injured Cell Max, who at the time was far weaker than a God of Destruction

 

[Robo432343]

You guys are also forgetting that Jiren beat Gohan in this thread

outdated fr

 

[SlendVeny]

The scaling and reasoning doesn't change

Then why is the match outdated?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

while Gohan's only feat is beating an injured Cell Max, who at the time was far weaker than a God of Destruction

And where the hell is that ever stated?

The one thing we do know is that even after being weakened his battle with Gohan was called "the strongest battle in history," with Gohan being called the strongest ever by multiple in universe and WoG statements. Cell Max forced Gohan to using a fully-charged Special Beam Cannon targeting his weak point which supports him being the second strongest.

And before you say we can't use statements, statements are literally the only thing we have to scale Cell Max and Saigo Gohan, and they aren't contradicted so they're completely valid and are being used.

So, Saigo Gohan shitcans Ultra Instinct Goku.

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Me when cell max needed to be damaged before beast gohan one shot. And wouldn't cell max give trouble broly trouble in perfect..? Where does the whole gohan being stronger than both of these come from? If cell max went perfect, sure he'd probably give all of them trouble.

Outside of that though, hard to tell who would actually take this, IF it was the current goku and vegeta. But I think since it's ToP Mui Gohan might

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Me when cell max needed to be damaged before beast gohan one shot. And wouldn't cell max give trouble broly trouble in perfect..? Where does the whole gohan being stronger than both of these come from? If cell max went perfect, sure he'd probably give all of them trouble.

Cell Max's body was already physically complete. The mind control program was unfinished. And Gohan is stated numerous times to have the potential to be the strongest, by both Piccolo in-universe and WoG statements by Toriyama and others, and he is stated to be the strongest warrior in his Beast Form

 

[Enter_Bluey]

But he still wasn't complete because of the mind control program. Which is still very important, and still a reason why he's not at maximum performance. That arguement does not prove anything at all. And I don't really think that strongest warrior is literal. He still uses goku and vegeta as other fights within the realm of comparison when mentioning them. Along with the fact they haven't seen the training they have done during this.

Which is why I do think Gohan wins in this match up, but not so clear if it is the current goku

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

And I don't really think that strongest warrior is literal. He still uses goku and vegeta as other fights within the realm of comparison when mentioning them. Along with the fact they haven't seen the training they have done during this.

The strongest warrior statement comes from literal promotional material and WoG...as do most of the statements on Gohan's power in the movie

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Me when cell max needed to be damaged before beast gohan one shot. And wouldn't cell max give trouble broly trouble in perfect..? Where does the whole gohan being stronger than both of these come from? If cell max went perfect, sure he'd probably give all of them trouble.

Outside of that though, hard to tell who would actually take this, IF it was the current goku and vegeta. But I think since it's ToP Mui Gohan might

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

To be fair the statements of the Gammas' comparability to Goku and Vegeta only apply to Broly Movie Super Saiyan Blue because Orange Piccolo (who effortlessly one-shotted Gamma 2) is on par with Goku and Vegeta at their strongest in Super Hero, which is Super Saiyan Blue because they've never used SSBKKx20 or SSBE after the Tournament of Power in the anime continuity, and considering Toei are the ones who came up with those forms, its doubtful that Toriyama had them in mind. Also Goku and Vegeta have training off world for an unspecified amount of time, meaing its likely that Hedo doesn't have any of their current data, their data having been used for the creation of Gamma 1 & 2.

 

[Mickey1940]

Cell Max's body was already physically complete. The mind control program was unfinished. And Gohan is stated numerous times to have the potential to be the strongest, by both Piccolo in-universe and WoG statements by Toriyama and others, and he is stated to be the strongest warrior in his Beast Form

After time Xell Max's head was cracked, the left side of his body left side blown off and partially petrified, and taking a beating from Orange PIccolo, I hesitate to say that Cell Max was physically on par with his healthy self, and by extension, Broly and Beerus

And once again, most author statements in the series have been debunked by themselves numerous times. Many official guidebooks were debunked by series progression and just straight-up calculations and the God Scale was debunked due to the writers being idiots. Promo material and author statements used to justify a DBZ characters' power should always be take with a grain of salt

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

After time Xell Max's head was cracked, the left side of his body left side blown off and partially petrified, and taking a beating from Orange PIccolo, I hesitate to say that Cell Max was physically on par with his healthy self, and by extension, Broly and Beerus

That's an argument from incredulity and has no credence here

And once again, most author statements in the series have been debunked by themselves numerous times. Many official guidebooks were debunked by series progression and just straight-up calculations and the God Scale was debunked due to the writers being idiots. Promo material and author statements used to justify a DBZ characters' power should always be take with a grain of salt

So what? There's literally nothing that contradicts these statements when they're from THE LATEST MOVIE'S PROMOTIONAL MATERIAL AND ARE CORROBORATED BY THE MOVIE ITSELF

 

[Mickey1940]

But he still wasn't complete because of the mind control program. Which is still very important, and still a reason why he's not at maximum performance. That arguement does not prove anything at all. And I don't really think that strongest warrior is literal. He still uses goku and vegeta as other fights within the realm of comparison when mentioning them. Along with the fact they haven't seen the training they have done during this.

Which is why I do think Gohan wins in this match up, but not so clear if it is the current goku

except Goku still has better feats even during the ToP, on top of his skill advantage, instinctive reaction, better RE, analytical prediction, powernull, and God Bind

 

[Mickey1940]

That's an argument from incredulity and has no credence here

Incredulity = unwilling or unable to believe something

what?

your argument against my point is that... I'm unwilling to just accept that you're right?

So what? There's literally nothing that contradicts these statements when they're from THE LATEST MOVIE'S PROMOTIONAL MATERIAL AND CORROBORATED BY THE MOVIE ITSELF

I literally said that movie promos should be taken with a grain of salt, and your response is "well it's a movie promo"...

and nothing to contradict it? Gohan needed a special beam cannon to the weak spot against a character weaker than Beerus
Goku can 1 shot Beerus by existing due to upscaling from Jiren, who nearly did just that against Belmod

 

[SlendVeny]

Incredulity = unwilling or unable to believe something

what?

your argument against my point is that... I'm unwilling to just accept that you're right?


I literally said that movie promos should be taken with a grain of salt, and your response is "well it's a movie promo"...

and nothing to contradict it? Gohan needed a special beam cannon to the weak spot against a character weaker than Beerus
Goku can 1 shot Beerus by existing due to upscaling from Jiren, who nearly did just that against Belmod

Well, Orange Piccolo can oneshot Goku with a regular punch, so...

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

and nothing to contradict it? Gohan needed a special beam cannon to the weak spot against a character weaker than Beerus

How is he weaker than Beerus? I already pointed out why that's not the case and where he scales so we know that's not true. We're going in circles at this rate, so you might as well just argue with the profiles

 

[Mickey1940]

Well, Orange Piccolo can oneshot Goku with a regular punch, so...

sigh


Ultra Instinct Goku > Limit Breaker Jiren >>> Base Jiren >>> Belmod or Beerus < SSGSS Gogeta < LSSJ Broly >>> SSJ Broly = SSJ Gogeta > Base Gogeta > Broly Movie SSGSS Goku

Cell Max ? Beat Gohan >>> Weakened Cell Max > Orange Piccolo = Super Hero SSGSS Goku

Gogeta in Base is stronger than SSGSS Goku, stacked SSGSS on top of that to beat Broly, and yet still scales below Ultra Instinct Goku

Are you really trying to say that SSGSS Goku got a Blue level increase since the Broly Movie?

 

[Mickey1940]

How is he weaker than Beerus? I already pointed out why that's not the case and where he scales so we know that's not true. We're going in circles at this rate, so you might as well just argue with the profiles

WEAKENED CELL MAX

WEAKENED CELL MAX

WEAKENED CELL MAX

WEAKENED CELL MAX

is weaker than Beerus

See how I typed it out 4 times so you don't miss it again?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

WEAKENED CELL MAX

WEAKENED CELL MAX

WEAKENED CELL MAX

WEAKENED CELL MAX

is weaker than Beerus

Where's your proof of him being weaker than Beerus? They call his fight with Gohan the strongest battle in history even though he's weakened. They also call Gohan the strongest in history, and considering Cell Max was enough of a threat that Gohan decided to use Special Beam Cannon, it stands that he's the second strongest. And its not like a non-weakened Cell Max would do much better anyways considering numerous times is Gohan called the strongest in history with the strongest potential. He's just that much stronger. Stop arguing from nonsense

 

[Mickey1940]

Where's your proof of him being weaker than Beerus? They call his fight with Gohan the strongest battle in history even though he's weakened. They also call Gohan the strongest in history, and considering Cell Max was enough of a threat that Gohan decided to use Special Beam Cannon, it stands that he's the second strongest. And its not like a non-weakened Cell Max would do much better anyways considering numerous times is Gohan called the strongest in history with the strongest potential. He's just that much stronger. Stop arguing from nonsense

Stop repeating "strongest battle in history" over and over. I already addressed it, And I'm not saying it again

If you want to pull author statements out of your ass, then Cell Max at his best scales to or above Broly, who scales to or above Beerus. Cell Max when weakened was so badly injured that he was harmed by Orange Piccolo, who scales far below Broly, due to the scaling chain I provided earlier

 

[SlendVeny]

sigh

You are in no position to be typing out "sigh"

Ultra Instinct Goku > Limit Breaker Jiren >>> Base Jiren >>> Belmod or Beerus < SSGSS Gogeta < LSSJ Broly >>> SSJ Broly = SSJ Gogeta > Base Gogeta > Broly Movie SSGSS Goku

Say this again without backscaling.

Cell Max ? Beat Gohan >>> Weakened Cell Max > Orange Piccolo = Super Hero SSGSS Goku

He ONESHOTTED guys who were able to be at Goku's level whilst holding back.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Stop repeating "strongest battle in history" over and over. I already addressed it, And I'm not saying it again

You addressing it was handwaving everything because you didn't wanna believe it in the face of your scaling that isn't even accepted

If you want to pull author statements out of your ass, then Cell Max at his best scales to or above Broly, who scales to or above Beerus. Cell Max when weakened was so badly injured that he was harmed by Orange Piccolo, who scales far below Broly, due to the scaling chain I provided earlier

That Broly statement is contradicted by the narrative implications of Cell Max being enough of a danger to Saigo Gohan and of course the "strongest battle in history" statement. It also makes no sense because Cell Max was already physically complete, and isn't accepted on this site for that reason

Feel free to argue with the profiles. It doesn't need to be said again

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

I find it hilarious that no one has done this yet

ToP Mastered UI Goku vs Beast Gohan

SBA but no speed equal

Win via death

Goku:
Gohan: 2
Incon:

Top goku is crazy you don’t even need to power scale to know gohan wins this

 

[SlendVeny]

Oh, yeah, Gohan fra btw, this seems like a spite thread against Goku.

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

the op must have sum against my goat to make this match

 

[Robo432343]

goku fra

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Gohan FRA

 

[Nierre]

gohan fra l o l

 

[Mickey1940]

You are in no position to be typing out "sigh"

Say this again without backscaling.

He ONESHOTTED guys who were able to be at Goku's level whilst holding back.

it's called sarcasm

literally the entirety of Dragon Ball Super relies on scaling and backscaling. If we're going by feats alone then Gohan is ****** town level for cracking the ground a bit, while Goku is still 2C for shaking the World of Void

he three-shotted someone who, due to extremely grievous injuries, was weaker than ToP Goku, and needed his strongest attack in his weak point in order to do so