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The Battle of the Strongest

MrLuk2000

MrLuk2000

1,561
266
Golden Frieza (Broly Movie) vs SSJ Gohan (Superhero Movie)

Speed is equal

Gohan is bloodlusted

Battle takes place in Beerus' planet

Who wins?

Gohan:

Frieza: 1

Beerus kills them both:
 
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Black frieza easily imho. The movie version of gohan only scales to the likes of SSB goku and vegeta, probably broly from the movie. Manga has several scaling chains above that.
 
Isn't there a statement in a V-Jump Magazine (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) that stated the battle between Beast Gohan vs Cell Max is the greatest/strongest battle in the history.

I could be wrong though.
 
NishizumiShiho said:
Isn't there a statement in a V-Jump Magazine (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) that stated the battle between Beast Gohan vs Cell Max is the greatest/strongest battle in the history.

I could be wrong though.
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This would only affect the movie canon, as the manga has its own adaptation now with a different scaling. Also, broly from the movie was confirmed as >cell max as the android wasn't complete. Even if you scale beast gohan above broly, the manga has a lot more chains up to black frieza
 
NishizumiShiho said:
Isn't there a statement in a V-Jump Magazine (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) that stated the battle between Beast Gohan vs Cell Max is the greatest/strongest battle in the history.
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That's just a hype statement made for promotion, Toriyama after the movie implied that Broly is still stronger.
 
StrymULTRA said:
That's just a hype statement made for promotion, Toriyama after the movie implied that Broly is still stronger.
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Nah he said Cell Max would have beaten Broly if his mind control (which doesn't add anything to his strength but rather on how he uses his Ki) had been finished.

It doesn't automatically means he is weaker than Broly without mind control because Broly's gimmick is all about adapting and getting stronger. So if anything this implies that strength wise Cell max > Broly but Broly would beat Cell max due to the latter messing around too much and giving him enough room to adapt.
 
SirAlex09 said:
Nah he said Cell Max would have beaten Broly if his mind control (which doesn't add anything to his strength but rather on how he uses his Ki) had been finished.

It doesn't automatically means he is weaker than Broly without mind control because Broly's gimmick is all about adapting and getting stronger. So if anything this implies that strength wise Cell max > Broly but Broly would beat Cell max due to the latter messing around too much and giving him enough room to adapt.
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This is what I assume. My thought is that Perfected Cell Max is something Magenta or someone can perfectly control, from Cell Max mind to it Ki.

Cell Max in movie wasn't very effective of utilizing his Ki and doesn't immediately kill everyone like Magenta wanted it to do, since Cell Max is not complete.
 
I mean if I had controlled Goku with a Ps4 controller, I would have immediately turned SSJB Kaioken x20 and Warp Kamehameha Broly to death before he can do sh*t.

That's what the whole debate between Cell Max vs Broly is about. If Hedo had control over Cell Max, everyone would be ash.
 
Problem is, going on the premise of "what if Cell Max was been completed", Toriyama wouldn't have mentioned "even Broly" if Gohan would have still be able to beat Cell even if complete.
 
How perfected Cell Max would look like? Is it would looks like Perfect Cell or it's just a mind control?

My assumption is would be the latter where Hedo or Magenta controlled Cell Max and immediately one shot everyone on the field. The entire gimmick of Broly is his crazy Reactive Power Level, Accelerated Development, and Reactive Evolution where in a span less than one hour, he can catch up from Base Vegeta level to forcing Gogeta to use Super Saiyan Blue.

If a mind controlled Cell Max targeted Broly immediately without giving Broly a chance to adapt, he's toasted.
 
It does not matter here. Toriyama used Broly as a parameter, why would he be used as that if Gohan was still stronger? He'd have said "not even Gohan would have beaten him" if it's the case.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Problem is, going on the premise of "what if Cell Max was been completed", Toriyama wouldn't have mentioned "even Broly" if Gohan would have still be able to beat Cell even if complete.
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Imo Broly is weaker than Gohan but Gohan would lose 10/10 cases because of how overpowered Broly's reactive power level is. I mean that guy casually reactive powerleveled his way through massive multipliers like it's nothing. So Gohan who is notorious for trolling whenever he is drunk on power and Cell Max, who is dumb af, will certainly lose to Broly.

But Toriyama's statement wouldn't make any sense if Cell Max didn't have a power advantage to begin with since the mind control was the only thing that was missing and it doesn't add anything to his strength.

In conclusion my point is that you can be stronger than Broly even if you can't ultimately beat him in battle.,
 
SirAlex09 said:
Imo Broly is weaker than Gohan but Gohan would lose 10/10 cases because of how overpowered Broly's reactive power level is. I mean that guy casually reactive powerleveled his way through massive multipliers like it's nothing. So Gohan who is notorious for trolling whenever he is drunk on power and Cell Max, who is dumb af, will certainly lose to Broly.

But Toriyama's statement wouldn't make any sense if Cell Max didn't have a power advantage to begin with since the mind control was the only thing that was missing and it doesn't add anything to his strength.

In conclusion my point is that you can be stronger than Broly even if you can't ultimately beat him in battle.,
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I agree, Cell Max entire purpose is to be mind controlled and one shot everyone, especially someone like Broly which his entire gimmick is grow strong real fast with less than an hour.
 
SirAlex09 said:
Imo Broly is weaker than Gohan but Gohan would lose 10/10 cases because of how overpowered Broly's reactive power level is. I mean that guy casually reactive powerleveled his way through massive multipliers like it's nothing. So Gohan who is notorious for trolling whenever he is drunk on power and Cell Max, who is dumb af, will certainly lose to Broly.

But Toriyama's statement wouldn't make any sense if Cell Max didn't have a power advantage to begin with since the mind control was the only thing that was missing and it doesn't add anything to his strength.
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This whole statement is just argument from incredulity, especially when better Ki control does indeed makes you stronger, Kale is stronger after achieving the controller Berserk for example. This whole "but Toriyama is wrong because I say so and [headcanon]" is not a thing, what Toriyama says is literally the truth here.
 
StrymULTRA said:
This whole statement is just argument from incredulity, especially when better Ki control does indeed makes you stronger, Kale is stronger after achieving the controller Berserk for example. This whole "but Toriyama is wrong because I say so and [headcanon]" is not a thing, what Toriyama says is literally the truth here.
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Ki control is spiritual. This was emphasized in the movie with Pan. You can't just control that with a device.

But what you can control is whether someone is messing around or finishes the job right away.

And Toriyama doesn't say anything. His statement leaves room for interpretation which is why we can have a conversation
 
SirAlex09 said:
And Toriyama doesn't say anything. His statement leaves room for interpretation which is why we can have a conversation
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No, we don't, because it's clear why he used Broly as a comparative. If he intended Gohan to be stronger, he'd use him and that's it. Stop twisting words for your narrative, it's not going to work, because it's pretty straightfoward.
 
StrymULTRA said:
No, we don't, because it's clear why he used Broly as a comparative. If he intended Gohan to be stronger, he'd use him and that's it. Stop twisting words for your narrative, it's not going to work, because it's pretty straightfoward.
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Lol the irony. You are doing just the same but keep crying. He never said Broly is stronger than Cell Max. He is strictly speaking about a hypothetical battle between both. You are the one who interprets this as Broly being stronger than Cell Max.

Edit: Also funny how you ignore statements like "Gohan is actually stronger than anyone(...)" which came directly from Toriyama's mouth. So the one twisting the narrative is you bro
 
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This fight is pointless because Anime scaling is 6 universes while Manga scaling is 3 universes. If this were Manga Freeza vs Manga Gohan, Freeza would stomp but as it is right now, no manga character would stand up to anime characters (ToP onwards) outside of Zeno. But screw it, let's act like Anime = Manga and see where I end up.



The 'strongest battle in history' statement is worthless because that's before Black Freeza even debuts. The movie released June 11 2022 so that statement is before things like Full Power Gas even. The 'timeline' of events is also irrelevant because this is all franchise hype for a movie when making statements like that. They very clearly aren't going to spoil future chapters in the manga and I have my doubts they even considered the manga.

Toriyama also never confirms that Gohan is the strongest. He just states Gohan 'could be the strongest, or so it's it said.' which is...a weak statement that means practically nothing.

Cell Max also very clearly was not complete in the movie and Toriyama explicitly states Cell Max would have been so strong that Broly can't stop him IF he were completed. Meaning Broly could definitely beat the Cell Max in the movie. Given Broly was stomped by Gogeta I have a hard time even thinking Gohan Beast is stronger than Gogeta. Seeing as Gogeta stomped Broly, who surpasses the Cell Max in the movie.

Black Freeza >> Gas >> TUI Goku >> Granolah (Two-eyes) >> Granolah (One-eye) > UI Goku = UI Moro >> Moro-73 (Toughest opponent Goku has faced) > FPSS Broly > Cell Max

So Gohan Beast taking several blows to beat Cell Max plus outside help plus a built-in weak point seriously isn't impressive by Manga standards. The only cope I've seen for Toriyama's statement is that 'Broly grew stronger' and I see nothing to actually indicate that, seeing as Broly only fights Base Goku in the anime or manga.

To add further, if this were manga Beast Gohan then this would be even more obvious because Goku and Vegeta haven't even been on Earth since the Moro Saga. So everything Gohan and Piccolo are going off are several year out of date powers.

Conclusion
In short, Gohan has zero feats of note. He just beat around a character weaker than Broly and still needed outside help to do so, plus a weak point to finish him off. That really isn't impressive even by purely anime standards because Gogeta Blue stomped FPSS Broly (who Toriyama implies can beat the Movie Cell Max). And based off the manga? I really doubt Beast Gohan is even close to Granolah Saga fighters, let alone Black Freeza. Comparatively Black Freeza one shots Gas, TUI Goku and UE Vegeta (stated by the interval special that Freeza can, infact, one shot everyone), is stated by Goku to possibly be the strongest in the universe (meaning he scales Freeza above Gas), stated to be the strongest by the chapter title and an official website article and is Goku and Vegeta's entire motivation for training for years after.

I declare Gohan Beast a massive fraud and the only reason he can win this fight is because of the anime's 6 Universes scaling.
 
SirAlex09 said:
Lol the irony. You are doing just the same but keep crying. He never said Broly is stronger than Cell Max. He is strictly speaking about a hypothetical battle between both. You are the one who interprets this as Broly being stronger than Cell Max.
Click to expand...
"IF Cell Max had been completed according to plan, he would have been a superhuman who EVEN Broly couldn't defeat." In other words, the Cell Max Gohan fights is someone Broly can defeat.
SirAlex09 said:
Edit: Also funny how you ignore statements like "Gohan is actually stronger than anyone(...)" which came directly from Toriyama's mouth. So the one twisting the narrative is you bro
Click to expand...
"Gohan is actually the strongest...or so it's said." In other words this statement means absolutely nothing.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
I declare Gohan Beast a massive fraud and the only reason he can win this fight is because of the anime's 6 Universes scaling.
Click to expand...
Ok. Now say that again without crying

tks1jp3rlp891.jpg
 
SirAlex09 said:
Nah he said Cell Max would have beaten Broly if his mind control (which doesn't add anything to his strength but rather on how he uses his Ki) had been finished.

It doesn't automatically means he is weaker than Broly without mind control because Broly's gimmick is all about adapting and getting stronger. So if anything this implies that strength wise Cell max > Broly but Broly would beat Cell max due to the latter messing around too much and giving him enough room to adapt.
Click to expand...
Ki is made of right mindness as well, so being in an unstable state of mind, aka a berserker state, would weaken one's Ki, and as such strength as well
 
omegabronic said:
Ki is made of right mindness as well, so being in an unstable state of mind, aka a berserker state, would weaken one's Ki, and as such strength as well
Click to expand...
I am pretty sure that when you are mind controlled robot you are nothing more than an empty shell
 
I once did Golden Frieza (Broly Saga) vs Ultimate Gohan (Super Heroes) and it was declared a stomp in Gohan's favor. Perhaps SSJ Gohan vs Golden Frieza?
 
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