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For example, Ultra Instinct, something that takes martial arts gods apparently millions of years to learn and master, is just generic instinctive reaction and power amp.
Compare this to Garou, who had already learned and efficiently utilized instinctive reactions as a HUMAN, before evolving many many times over.
Uhm no Ultra instinct isn't just instinctive reactions.This is funny because Ultra instinct isn't just Intinctual movements lmao... Goku has had instinctual movements way before he T.O.P saga, even master roshi has Instinctive movements but yet whis clarified that it's not just that.
This type of reasoning is laughable... first off this is false equivalency as Ultra instinct isn't just instinctive reaction, master roshi has Instinctive reactions which helped him react to Jiren who's several times faster than him, this is far higher than any instinctive movement shown in OPM verse btw and yet it was stated to be a far cry from Ultra instinct.Actually, your point is moot here. Instinctive Reaction is Instinctive Reaction. If it's harder to learn in Dragon Ball, all that says is that they aren't nearly as intelligent or skilled as the people in OPM are. Taking millions of years to learn something considered basic in another verse is the biggest anti-feat you could give lmao.
If there's anyone with a moot point here it's yours. Garou has baseline instinctive reactions probably not even on par with master roshi's sef and you're equating it to UI. truly laughableActually, your point is moot here.
He already had enough skill to stomp any version of Goku. Now it's a a mega stomp.Seems to be enough knowledge and application to rival DBS Goku now
To me, this seems to be an application of hax.l not skill. He seems to be doing the same thing that he does with water flowing polo fist thing but fusing natural phenomena with it in the form of hax, like he made nuclear bombs and a black hole. I don't know how that would be applicable to skill.With his recent form Garou has gained a fundamental understanding of the forces composing the universe and thus is able to copy the flow of any universal phenomena, allowing him to perfectly apply the physical properties of anything in the universe in any way he likes
Seems to be enough knowledge and application to rival DBS Goku now
Tfw instinct chainsThis argument was made here before. Just because garou is more skilled in one aspect of skill such as instinctive reaction, does not mean he is overall more skilled than Goku.
This is because there is no objective metric for skill where when you vary from verse to verse, you will find characters that are much more skilled in aspects while lacking other aspects that less skilled characters in other verses excel in.
For example, Goku absolutely experience curbs stomps the shit out of garou. Is this enough to conclude that Goku would shit on garou in terms of skill? No, we need to compare every aspect and every skill feat to make that conclusion.
Now this point is moot anyway because ultra instinct is a technique that is significantly harder to learn in dragon ball than in one punch man. But not just that, but Goku's ultra instinct is even more powerful than garou's application of instinctive reaction since it's far above baseline.
Eh the manga makes a point that it's technique based rather than just warping reality. He basically integrated nigh omniscience into his fighting style and thus can apply the essence of martial arts on a grander scaleTo me, this seems to be an application of hax.l not skill. He seems to be doing the same thing that he does with water flowing polo fist thing but fusing natural phenomena with it in the form of hax, like he made nuclear bombs and a black hole. I don't know how that would be applicable to skill.
No lol.He already had enough skill to stomp any version of Goku. Now it's a a mega stomp.
And this doesn’t sound like hax to you?With his recent form Garou has gained a fundamental understanding of the forces composing the universe and thus is able to copy the flow of any universal phenomena, allowing him to perfectly apply the physical properties of anything in the universe in any way he likes
We might as well include all the Dragonball techniques.. that involves.. cough… Ki… cough coughEh the manga makes a point that it's technique based rather than just warping reality. He basically integrated nigh omniscience into his fighting style and thus can apply the essence of martial arts on a grander scale
Having that much knowledge and integrating it into your martial arts does sound like skill, yesAnd this doesn’t sound like hax to you?
Can this be an application of skill? Wasn't this done through the powers bestowed upon him by god? and even if it's an application of martial arts skills this still isn't enough as Ki is an application of martial arts also so this just gives room to include KiWith his recent form Garou has gained a fundamental understanding of the forces composing the universe and thus is able to copy the flow of any universal phenomena, allowing him to perfectly apply the physical properties of anything in the universe in any way he likes
Nigh omniscience? Bruh he doesn't actually have that does he? To be honest the power is vague so maybe but it just seems he can copy natural phenomena and then use them in his techniques. Like the first thing he did was punch and fuse that punch with atomic fusion like a nuclear bomb. This to me just appears to be hax. It's his normal martial arts plus reality warping I think.Eh the manga makes a point that it's technique based rather than just warping reality. He basically integrated nigh omniscience into his fighting style and thus can apply the essence of martial arts on a grander scale
"He has gained knowledge of all the flow of all energy and behavior of all forces in the universe."Nigh omniscience? Bruh he doesn't actually have that does he?
Goku still edges out in overall skill, once it comes to information analysis, analytical prediction, battle IQ, instinctive movements Goku edges out in all of that, Garou only edges out in power mimicry given his new form...Seems to be enough knowledge and application to rival DBS Goku now
He hasn’t applied all his knowledge into “skill” and this gives room for Ki to be applied since it has always been martial arts in DB. So shall we?Having that much knowledge and integrating it into your martial arts does sound like skill, yes
? Go for it. I’m curious how Ki Manipulation relates to skill.So shall we?
lol Spider-Man skillstomps Garou because his Instinctive Reaction took 0 time to learn.Actually, your point is moot here. Instinctive Reaction is Instinctive Reaction. If it's harder to learn in Dragon Ball, all that says is that they aren't nearly as intelligent or skilled as the people in OPM are. Taking millions of years to learn something considered basic in another verse is the biggest anti-feat you could give lmao.
And what do you mean "above baseline," if you just mean reacting to attacks faster than you, then Garou's is also above baseline...
Not skill. Part of his physiological/inherent abilities.lol Spider-Man skillstomps Garou because his Instinctive Reaction took 0 time to learn.
Had to make that joke. Proceed.
It was a joke, famo. I literally said so in the strikethrough text lolNot skill. Part of his physiological/inherent abilities.
I just don't want anyone to misunderstand what I'm saying.It was a joke, famo. I literally said so in the strikethrough text lol
Again with people acting like MUI is more than what it actually is.Again with this oversimplification.
Because it literally is more than what you make it seem.Again with people acting like MUI is more than what it actually is.
Seriously guys, it's not as phenomenal or crazy a technique as you think it is.
Just because it's a technique so wildly unobtainable in another verse doesn't mean it is so far above normal instinctive reaction lol
it is instinctive reaction, but better.What is Ultra Instinct if it's not just Instinctive Reaction?
IR isn't even on Master Roshi's profile lmao. Everyone in DB who is stated to have IR usually has an incomplete or limited version of it. Except those with UI.it is instinctive reaction, but better.
Master Roshi has IR. And his was stated to be below Ultra Instinct. You just have to understand that there are levels not even the gods can reach. gods that have been training under Martial Arts from their angels for millions of years. And Roshi’s IR was seen as mid despite his feat.
Goku not only reach the level of gods with incomplete version, he surpassed them by mastering it, surpassed himself after the tournament, surpassed himself in Moro Arc, added it to base, proceeded to create this scaling chain UISSJ << UISSG <<< UI SS blue <<< UI Granola Arc.
@Maverick_Zero_X you can have all the knowledge in the world, but will be shit without evidence of application. So far he is just spamming cosmic radiation and has probably reached his knowledge cap by using a gamma burst attack the greatest and most dangerous form of radiation. So that’s literally it. Nuclear Fist and Gamma burst.
Kaioken + transformation + Goku’s accelerated development boosts Martial arts that is already known similar to how god’s powers boosted Garou’s pre-existing Technique.
just wait till the arc is over, Garou can’t touch Goku yet
which is somewhat strange, that’s his most notable ToP featIR isn't even on Master Roshi's profile lma
It is the first thing I want to establish here. Garou's IR is better, and MUI isn't really the shit.why did people make this a debate of who has the best instinctive reaction?
Garou is already fused with every force and energy in the universe bro.Could Garou really copy ultra instint without any side effect
because those is one that does copy ultra instint and let just say he have to fuse with the earth to survive
Untrue Garou only gained knowledge of the flow of all energy as well as the behaviour of all forces in the universeGarou is already fused with every force and energy in the universe bro.
Reread. On the first page on the chapter it literally stated that he understands the flow of energy, and harnesses/recreates it in his body. Garou gained the flow of all energies in the universe, and was able to harness one form of that energy in the form of a Gamma Ray Burst.Untrue Garou only gained knowledge of the flow of all energy as well as the behaviour of all forces in the universe