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Can he beat Goku tho.
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Goku vs. Garou (Martial Arts Battle)
- Thread starter Kin201
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Anyways Goku seems to take this.
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Agreed
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It was said best here
Vietthai96
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Again did you two read my comment. Hit skip time, he only start to stopping time after SSB Goku KKx10 Kamehameha, just watch the goddamn anime and his profile
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THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TIME SKIP AND TIME STOP. HIT STOPS TIME TO SKIP TIME.
what is this argument...He skips in the perspective of those who don't realize time is stopped. Both of you are saying the same thing.
He stops time if he skips over and over again.
Or wait... Are you saying Hit jumps ahead a fraction of a second into the future?
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Except that it is an application of skill, Goku did not use supernatural will power or resistance to master ultra instinct, idk where you're getting this from or maybe you're just implying how he attained it. However it's one thing to tap into ultra instinct and it's another to master it, and this is something Goku has done and in the recent chapters he can use it at will which is something that's not easy for God's of destructions to pull off...
When Beerus used Ultra instinct and i'm not even sure we can call that ultra instinct, he only used it momentarily for a very very small amount of time unlike Goku who attained it and used it far longer than any mortal or God of destruction ever has...
At this point you're not making sense anymore... How is it rendered moot? and Goku didn't gain it out of sheer coincidence, this is something that has been referenced and whis was has been telling Goku and vegeta about it. Ultra instinct is a state of being, it's a technique that requires your heart to be tranquil or calm in order for your body to move on it's own and it takes tremendous amount of skill to achieve this seeing as how beerus himself could only do it for a very short time frame.
Except that whis has literally been teaching beerus that skill for God knows how long and can barely pull it off, and Goku mastered it in a very short time frame, you seem to be nitpicking on How Goku attained it while ignoring the fact that he actually mastered it
Except we Know that one actually has to grasp the concept of the technique before actually attaining it... up until that spirit bomb thing Goku didn't have any reason to turn off his mind and calm his heart. And you're forgetting the fact that Beerus has been training with whis before Goku's forefathers were even born and he still can't use UI as Good as goku does
I'm sorry but this statement literally makes no sense because Beerus never used Ultra instinct in the anime, the only cannon that he used it in was in the manga...
This is funny because Ultra instinct isn't just Intinctual movements lmao... Goku has had instinctual movements way before he T.O.P saga, even master roshi has Instinctive movements but yet whis clarified that it's not just that.
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Uhm no... His ability is time stop, his skipping of time is by stopping it momentarily, Hit has been stopping time and what happened during that ssb Goku kkx10 thing was that the time range of which he could stop time increased from like 0.1 to 0.5 i think and they were having their battle in that stopped time
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People forget that "TIME SKIP" is the name but what the ability actually does is stop time momentarily
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No it doesn't... Not unless he uses it as a transformation. what happened there was not about a matter of speed, there was a barrage of attacks and while vegeta is thinking "Go left and then right, no left, no right" Goku with The UI technique just effortlessly dodges as he doesn't need to think of where to go to evade his body just dodges it...
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- Thread starter
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Assuming Base Goku = Base Vegeta, even if Vegeta has to think, unlike Goku, his speed was still 50x faster than him. So he shouldn't have "struggled" with dodging them while Base Goku who was 50x slower could "effortlessly" dodge. You will find it makes no sense.
Vietthai96
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i'm talking about anime
if he truly stop time, Goku can't predict him, because when time stop, Goku can't think, thus he can't predict shit. Not only that but also Goku using KKx10 to boost his speed to match 0.5s time skip mean Hit never actually stop time, because not master how fast you are, it is pointless when time stop its progression
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What conspiracy theory is this...
Vietthai96
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He only starting to stop time after Goku throw his Kamehameha.....and it display in full in pre-ToP arc
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He stopped time many times, not once during the match.
Vietthai96
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he only STARTING to stop time AFTER Goku using the Kamehameha
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Then what about all those other times before it?
Vietthai96
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he skip time
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Which means he stopped time.
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I honestly don't understand why this is controversial.I read most comments with feats for both and while they seem equal in some aspects (power mimicry), garou clearly has the edge via having durability negation in his martial arts and his martial arts actually making him match others who far out stat him.
In terms of the context in both Stories, there is no need to state how long it took any of the characters to learn something as it could also be as a result of that characters ineptitude.
Going by context bang and bomb are the equivalent of gods of destruction who dwarf master martial artists that dwarf other master martial artists in skill.
This match is entirely based on martial arts with equal stats so why are skills feats based on ki being added into the equation when ki isn't allowed in this match?
Its been argued garou's analytical prediction is based only on opponent stance, movements, angle of sight which clearly isn't true. Just because other factors aren't stated doesn't mean it isn't there, after all most of garous' feats come from when he's completely unconscious which means there's no way for him to see or perceive anything about his opponent. His body is simply moving automatically on it's on and still predicting his appointment moveset in the same way UI is described to work.
In terms of the context in both Stories, there is no need to state how long it took any of the characters to learn something as it could also be as a result of that characters ineptitude.
Going by context bang and bomb are the equivalent of gods of destruction who dwarf master martial artists that dwarf other master martial artists in skill.
This match is entirely based on martial arts with equal stats so why are skills feats based on ki being added into the equation when ki isn't allowed in this match?
Its been argued garou's analytical prediction is based only on opponent stance, movements, angle of sight which clearly isn't true. Just because other factors aren't stated doesn't mean it isn't there, after all most of garous' feats come from when he's completely unconscious which means there's no way for him to see or perceive anything about his opponent. His body is simply moving automatically on it's on and still predicting his appointment moveset in the same way UI is described to work.
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So you think Goku can’t predict because… he can’t think in time stop… when he does the thinking before and aft-
Why are you even going against the feat of the show? It was shown he is capable of predicting a time stop spammer.
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Why would garou have a skill edge because of durability negation? You're basically saying garou is more skilled because he has hax.
Goku literally has better feats of keeping up with people who far out stat him. He kept up with ikari broly in base and SSJ, when ikari broly is SSG level.
Except it's not ineptitude when the techniques being learned are far more difficult to learn than entire martial art styles.
This is a false equivalence. You are equating bang and bomb to the GoDs by using a summarized, unelaborate description paragraph. The GoDs dwarf bang and bomb's martial art experience millions of times over.
Because they are skill feats?
You're conflating analytical prediction with instinctive reaction. Garou isn't predicting anything by fighting asleep, his body is just moving on it's own, something Goku can already do and better. Goku's analytical prediction is naturally superior to garou's due to how it functions.
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Tbh, this makes no sense and is probably PIS. If Ikari Broly is SSJG level, he would have blitzed and one-shot Base and SSJ Goku.
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Actually, I agree. I believe SSG is a better example. He kept up with broly and the gap isn't as large but still huge since broly is SSB level.
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This is most likely a case of Multipliers being treated innacurately. There's a series in webtoon i read called "hardcore levelling warrior" (pretty good tbh, but now that it's complete you can only read a chapter per day) and the bread and butter of the mc is stat amping. He will sometimes be fighting an enemy in equal grounds, use a 77x AP multiplier and only gain a slight advantage when realistically he should have splattered the enemy.
If Broly really was literally 50x stronger than goku in any of these circustamces Goku would have exploded from clashing punches and the first time Broly punched him in the face. Not trying to discredit the feat entirely, but that massive numerical difference is treated as a significant yet in no way stomp worthy AP advantage.
If Broly really was literally 50x stronger than goku in any of these circustamces Goku would have exploded from clashing punches and the first time Broly punched him in the face. Not trying to discredit the feat entirely, but that massive numerical difference is treated as a significant yet in no way stomp worthy AP advantage.
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Except I never said its a skill advantage. In a martial arts fight between the two garou has the advantage. Bang was literally deflecting everything, not a single attack touched him yet he was taking heavy damage from the shockwaves and more when an attack only grazed him.
There's your answer eight there.
This would not be false equivalence as the setting for both is different. In terms of martial arts what bang and bomb are to the world is basically equal to the gods of destruction are in DB otherwise your basically saying because there's no one in OPM that has lived up to millions of years they automatically lose.
They are skill feats but have nothing to do with normal martial arts. It would be like saying sakura is more skilled than sasuke because she has better chakra control.
I compared the two and used it against the argument of garou needing his opponents stance, line of sight, posture, gravity to perform his predictions when his body instinct u ally performs these predictions on its own without any information gained from the 5 senses
Spinoirr
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In the manga it isn't, Goku went UI due to a culmination of all his skill as he was reminded by roshi about it and when UI sign
UI in the manga is a state of mind + a technique (Goku has forms that make him use UI at peak performance due to being a Saiyan and equating UI to transformation)
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Okay then this isn't relevant in a skill debate.
I brought another example, and can bring more.
No mate. What bang and bomb are to their verse is what MASTER ROSHI is to early DB verse. A dude with hundreds of years of martial arts experience known as the pinnacle of martial arts and capable of skill stomping other martial arts masters.
Now observe the gargantuan difference in skill between roshi and beerus and then realize that you made a false equivalence.
Ki technique copying is even more impressive than martial arts copying because it's more difficult to learn, that's why it's relevant.
You are literally describing instinctive reaction. His body is still using it's senses to make actions, it's not analytical prediction.
Not only does Goku do his prediction better, he has another prediction type on top of that, and his instinctive reaction is better.
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same thing in the anime
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Going by context Bang and Bomb are not the equivalent of Gods of destruction, If they are the equivalent of anyone in the DB series it would be Master roshi the Turtle hermit and Master shen the Crane hermit. yes this would be likely the case as roshi and shen were actually close like brother's before and they trained under master mutaito... Both have 300 years of experience at least and are considered as martial arts deities and both have their own martial arts schools that are the best in the world. so yeah Bomb and bang are the equivalent of them and not Gods of destruction
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Nearly choked while reading this... this is a very desperate attempt to wank OPM character skills to DB level, why Jump to Gods of destruction when there are characters like master roshi who's the best martial artist in the world and dwarves almost every other person in both experience and skill? what about master shen who's like master roshi's brother and rival? what about Korin who basically taught master roshi? his martial art skills dwarves anyone in the planet? what about Popo who's superior to Korin? trained directly under kami and has superior martial art skills to anyone in the planet also? what about Kami that taught Popo? or King kai like what the hell???? you basically jumped from these set of people to Gods of destructions... what sort of outrageous wank is this?
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Just to show the difference between Gods of destructions and the rest of DB characters in martial art skills.... every martial artist in the world<<<<<< Master shen<<<<Master roshi<<<<Karin<<<Popo<<<<Kami<<<<King kai. after king kai we have the Z fighters tho i won't say the likes of krillin and yamcha are as skilled as king kai or Kami but they're certainly more powerful... then after them we have Gods of destructions who are literally the most skilled and powerful warriors in their respective verse (excluding maybe champa)
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That's legit an almost perfect parallel between them.
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But yeah, OPM is NEVER beating DB in skill scaling chain. Unlike more martial arts focused verses like Baki,Kengan Ashura,God of highschool and DB (at least the original one) Garou is THE skilled dude. Most other heroes aren't martial artists. We have vaguely skilled ones like Flashy flash(who is completely unimpressive in feats compared to Garou) and the other martial artists in the world are either featless or gag material (like the guy who came into Super tournament to try psychologic tactics or the dude who just covered his fist in pepper spray.) Other than him there are only Bang and Bomb, the former beating the previous super martial art tournament and being undisputedly the most skilled martial artist in the world outside of Bomb (and possibly the void fist guy who taught Suiryu.).
Once Garou surpasses these two it's fair to say there's pretty much nowhere else for him to go. (It's even more explicit in the webcomic, since once Bang deemed himself unworthy of teaching someone as skilled as King the ony place left for him to go was a temple where he would meditate to death in hope of finding some enlightenment.) Sure, he can obviously still get stronger and more skilled, but in terms of scaling chain that's where he stops. (unless he gets a massive one of being uncomparably more skilled than his previous self.)
Meanwhile Dragon Ball has an almost infinite hierarchy of bad guys quantitatively superior to the previous one hiding in some corner of the universe or waiting to be awakened. It's far past the point where any earthling can have any relevance outside of the Z fighters.
Once Garou surpasses these two it's fair to say there's pretty much nowhere else for him to go. (It's even more explicit in the webcomic, since once Bang deemed himself unworthy of teaching someone as skilled as King the ony place left for him to go was a temple where he would meditate to death in hope of finding some enlightenment.) Sure, he can obviously still get stronger and more skilled, but in terms of scaling chain that's where he stops. (unless he gets a massive one of being uncomparably more skilled than his previous self.)
Meanwhile Dragon Ball has an almost infinite hierarchy of bad guys quantitatively superior to the previous one hiding in some corner of the universe or waiting to be awakened. It's far past the point where any earthling can have any relevance outside of the Z fighters.
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Vietthai96
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Sure, let call someone who disagree with you a child, what a way to debateGosh, who's this child please?
Vietthai96
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Skill scaling chain??? As much as i love Dragon Ball this is bullshit. When did have stronger power in DB equal to have better skill???. Original Dragon Ball sure focus on martial art so there could be a skill scaling chain, but from DBZ it is just having higher power to save the day, sure skill aspect did progress over time but calling the verse to have infinite hierachy of bad guy meaning infinite hierachy of skill superiority is bullshit. DBS did make martial art and skill return, like Goku vs Hit, Ultra Instinct, and some others, but infinite hearachy, lmao no
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He's clearly exaggerating, not literally infinite. And dragon ball does have a large progression of skill even in Z.
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